new cat big bore ...

[favoritos]

1 hour ago, Not greg b said:

Did you guys get them out yet?? Gotta be getting close to go time 

We have been doing corn and soybeans.  Maybe 2,500 acres done.  We had our stuff planted before that round of spring storms.  It sure is early for harvest.  Odd to dry corn that goes in with temps around 90!  105-107 day corn is running under 20% already.  We were joking that a couple good hair driers would probably dry this stuff.

 Beans are hit and miss right now.  It's completely dependent on the variety.  They are drying so fast that we couldn't wait until they were all ready.  Two of the boys are doing beans by themselves.  They are doing pretty good too.  They did a couple days around 150 acres.

To the belt drive discussion.  I'm well aware that belts can work and work well.  I'm not even going to argue the point.  My concern is whether or not they designed a system that will be adequate for high stress riding conditions.  I sure hope they didn't try to pinch a couple pennies and go cheap with a setup that is too weak.

[Tripleflipper]

12 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

Same goes for Polaris and Doo. They don't give a shit about anyone! Just your money. A stop sale, stop ride should push you to the better brand, Cat!

Bought a Seadoo last year, this could be my first step to not a Poo on my next winter ride.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Tripleflipper

[Crnr2Crnr]

9 hours ago, racinfarmer said:

Timing belts see a relatively consistent and linear load.

Drive belt on a sled will see shock loads.

 

tbh, I'm wondering why a slipper isn't incorporated into the drivetrain... as found on the PC RXC or SX.  they must have a lot of faith in the system to hand them over to Joe trail guy without a cog in the wheel to reduce shock load.  something is likely to give at some point... just what, idk.

[DriftBusta]

6 hours ago, favoritos said:

We have been doing corn and soybeans.  Maybe 2,500 acres done.  We had our stuff planted before that round of spring storms.  It sure is early for harvest.  Odd to dry corn that goes in with temps around 90!  105-107 day corn is running under 20% already.  We were joking that a couple good hair driers would probably dry this stuff.

 Beans are hit and miss right now.  It's completely dependent on the variety.  They are drying so fast that we couldn't wait until they were all ready.  Two of the boys are doing beans by themselves.  They are doing pretty good too.  They did a couple days around 150 acres.

To the belt drive discussion.  I'm well aware that belts can work and work well.  I'm not even going to argue the point.  My concern is whether or not they designed a system that will be adequate for high stress riding conditions.  I sure hope they didn't try to pinch a couple pennies and go cheap with a setup that is too weak.

x2.  I guess it depends on who's running Arctic Cat now, the bean counters (lol) or the rider/racers like in years past.  I hope the sled is a smashing success.  The sport needs more than 2 brands after Yamaha dropped out.

[krom]

14 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

Not really. Acceleration, deceleration, starting and stopping. The shock load on the Catalyst is controlled by the TCL and the eccentric bearing. Time will tell, but I am confident.  

Holy fuck are you stupid, and wrong..
Neither the bearing mounted in an eccentric housing, or tcl have anything at all to do with shock load

BTW the eccentric is used to set the CTC for the pulleys depending on which ones are used (it isn't designed to allow for tension changes, it has set positions for different gear ratios)

TCL keeps clutch ctc consistent, but does allow drive belt pulleys to change CTC, and parallelism (albeit only slightly)

Shock loading comes from the track and has nothing al all to do with the moronic drivel you are spewing.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by krom

[fortune46x]

14 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

Yes they do. Park Rapids is a true cross country event. So is the 500. Mostly ditch pounding action. You are mental!

In testing using XC as a platform when they were using Tki belt drives in the cross country events they didn't run them in the ditches because they did not have a slipper gear they only ran chaincases with a slipper. that's not do say a slipper belt drive isn't in progress.

See kroms post above on shock load. The gears and chain control shock load.

I will say I have more time than most in the flat land (been running it since 2018) on a TKI belt drive attached to a 170+hp 800 and have had no issues as of yet with a gates polychain gt carbon belt.

 

[Not greg b]

12 hours ago, racinfarmer said:

Yeah, the back one looks like it has a Big Dick on it.

Rumor has it, it dicked over a few mail boxes and apologies were needed. 

[Ziemann]

For someone like me or probably @ZR6000RR/ Jim, I suspect the belt drive will work fine. I'm skeptical still about longevity, but think it'll work well. Like anything else, we'll learn quickly what the service life is for the belts, and replace it preventatively like any other belt. I don't think it'll be a big deal. 

Stutter bumps cause some harmonics and rhythmic vibrations that seem to destroy sleds. Something has to give somewhere. If a person can grenade a chain case in those conditions, they sure as hell can grenade a cogged belt. 

I've heard enough feedback from people using the belt drives on high HP motors to feel comfortable with it for my usage. I'm fat and feel every joint in my body, so my racing days are unquestionably over. I can't beat the hell out of a sled like I used to, and will probably never push the belt system to its limits. The biggest weakness will simply be due to neglect and lack of maintenance- just like anything. So, I have no doubt that it'll work for me and probably most folks. 

[AK440]

4 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

 

tbh, I'm wondering why a slipper isn't incorporated into the drivetrain... as found on the PC RXC or SX.  they must have a lot of faith in the system to hand them over to Joe trail guy without a cog in the wheel to reduce shock load.  something is likely to give at some point... just what, idk.

 

23 minutes ago, fortune46x said:

In testing using XC as a platform when they were using Tki belt drives in the cross country events they didn't run them in the ditches because they did not have a slipper gear they only ran chaincases with a slipper. that's not do say a slipper belt drive isn't in progress.

See kroms post above on shock load. The gears and chain control shock load.

I will say I have more time than most in the flat land (been running it since 2018) on a TKI belt drive attached to a 170+hp 800 and have had no issues as of yet with a gates polychain gt carbon belt.

 

I really hope the belt drive is reliable for Cat and proves successful. However, do I have any faith in Textron? Nope. I pretty skeptical that the system will hold up once regular guys are riding them on trails and ditches. Repeated WFO pulls across lakes will produce heat. The shock loading on rough trails will take its toll. I don’t remember why Cat’s diamond drive was a pile but it was also plagued with problems. There must be a patent on tensioner technology for neither Cat or Polaris to use one. 

[AK440]

I should add, the dipshits in the mainstream sled media won’t even hint if they saw any issues on their preproduction test rides. It won’t be until next season they’ll mention any short comings, well after the internet savvy riders long learned or experienced the problems with the system. Then the sled media will say there were some “teething issues” but Textron has addressed the “small number of failures” and has an updated belt to cure the issue for the guys who “run their sleds harder than average”. 
 

The customer will again be doing the R&D for sled OEM’s who keep charging higher and higher prices every season.

[ZR6000RR]

4 minutes ago, AK440 said:

 

I really hope the belt drive is reliable for Cat and proves successful. However, do I have any faith in Textron? Nope. I pretty skeptical that the system will hold up once regular guys are riding them on trails and ditches. Repeated WFO pulls across lakes will produce heat. The shock loading on rough trails will take its toll. I don’t remember why Cat’s diamond drive was a pile but it was also plagued with problems. There must be a patent on tensioner technology for neither Cat or Polaris to use one. 

Cats tensioner is the eccentric bearing and the way the engine and clutches move together with the TCL. It's open so heat is not an issue.

[ZR6000RR]

1 minute ago, AK440 said:

I should add, the dipshits in the mainstream sled media won’t even hint if they saw any issues on their preproduction test rides. It won’t be until next season they’ll mention any short comings, well after the internet savvy riders long learned or experienced the problems with the system. Then the sled media will say there were some “teething issues” but Textron has addressed the “small number of failures” and has an updated belt to cure the issue for the guys who “run their sleds harder than average”. 
 

The customer will again be doing the R&D for sled OEM’s who keep charging higher and higher prices every season.

Snowtech ran one for 2000 miles. No issues and that was a pre production sled. Running it again this coming season btw. 

[krom]

1 hour ago, ZR6000RR said:

Cats tensioner is the eccentric bearing and the way the engine and clutches move together with the TCL. It's open so heat is not an issue.

It isn't an eccentric bearing, its a self aligning bearing in an eccentric housing.

as for the magazine riders claiming to put 2k miles on a prototype, re-read AK440's post as many times as it takes for you to comprehend what he said. (It's going to take you at least 10 times)

Remember telling everyone that AC was going to build a run of catalyst in February???

Edited September 25, 2023 by krom

[Bontz]

I gotta say, it boggles my mind how much Jim wants to argue and talk like he knows what's going on & fails to recognize the people who are telling him he's wrong.  Between a certified Cat Master Technician (is that what it's still referred to @krom?) and several guys who are clearly in the know when it comes to racing ... and riding .  Threads like this are comedy gold!!

[krom]

8 minutes ago, Bontz said:

I gotta say, it boggles my mind how much Jim wants to argue and talk like he knows what's going on & fails to recognize the people who are telling him he's wrong.  Between a certified Cat Master Technician (is that what it's still referred to @krom?) and several guys who are clearly in the know when it comes to racing ... and riding .  Threads like this are comedy gold!!

They stopped doing anything with catmaster, the annual tests, and more or less stopped doing tech updates. 
They haven't even sent out a pdf of changes in a year or 2.
Textron has started doing classes in TRF for "Platinum Technical Training Seminars" and online bs called "brainier"

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by krom

[DriftBusta]

1 hour ago, AK440 said:

I should add, the dipshits in the mainstream sled media won’t even hint if they saw any issues on their preproduction test rides. It won’t be until next season they’ll mention any short comings, well after the internet savvy riders long learned or experienced the problems with the system. Then the sled media will say there were some “teething issues” but Textron has addressed the “small number of failures” and has an updated belt to cure the issue for the guys who “run their sleds harder than average”. 
 

The customer will again be doing the R&D for sled OEM’s who keep charging higher and higher prices every season.

So you know the drill.  Been going on as long as the sport has been around.   

[Art Vandelay]

2 hours ago, Bontz said:

I gotta say, it boggles my mind how much Jim wants to argue and talk like he knows what's going on & fails to recognize the people who are telling him he's wrong.  Between a certified Cat Master Technician (is that what it's still referred to @krom?) and several guys who are clearly in the know when it comes to racing ... and riding .  Threads like this are comedy gold!!

This is an odd site. Lots of knowledge but you need to sift through the village idiot and everyone who can't ignore him to learn anything.

 

3 hours ago, AK440 said:

I should add, the dipshits in the mainstream sled media won’t even hint if they saw any issues on their preproduction test rides. It won’t be until next season they’ll mention any short comings, well after the internet savvy riders long learned or experienced the problems with the system. Then the sled media will say there were some “teething issues” but Textron has addressed the “small number of failures” and has an updated belt to cure the issue for the guys who “run their sleds harder than average”. 
 

The customer will again be doing the R&D for sled OEM’s who keep charging higher and higher prices every season.

Snowtech might be different. They had a riot a couple years ago with all kinds of issues, and they've pointed out the quality issues on recent poo's. 

[Crnr2Crnr]

4 hours ago, fortune46x said:

In testing using XC as a platform when they were using Tki belt drives in the cross country events they didn't run them in the ditches because they did not have a slipper gear they only ran chaincases with a slipper. that's not do say a slipper belt drive isn't in progress.

See kroms post above on shock load. The gears and chain control shock load.

I will say I have more time than most in the flat land (been running it since 2018) on a TKI belt drive attached to a 170+hp 800 and have had no issues as of yet with a gates polychain gt carbon belt.

 

Oh please, 170hp with a belt drive in an Iowa cornfield? 

#realworldtesting 

3 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

Cats tensioner is the eccentric bearing and the way the engine and clutches move together with the TCL. It's open so heat is not an issue.

I'm going to type slowly for ya... 

d o 

y o u 

k n o w 

w h a t 

s h o c k 

l o a d I n g 

a 

d r I v e t r a I n 

i s 

? 

 

2 hours ago, krom said:

It isn't an eccentric bearing, its a self aligning bearing in an eccentric housing.

as for the magazine riders claiming to put 2k miles on a prototype, re-read AK440's post as many times as it takes for you to comprehend what he said. (It's going to take you at least 10 times)

Remember telling everyone that AC was going to build a run of catalyst in February???

bless your heart for trying with this one... 

2 hours ago, Bontz said:

I gotta say, it boggles my mind how much Jim wants to argue and talk like he knows what's going on & fails to recognize the people who are telling him he's wrong.  Between a certified Cat Master Technician (is that what it's still referred to @krom?) and several guys who are clearly in the know when it comes to racing ... and riding .  Threads like this are comedy gold!!

you have no idea how much we wish he were on the red or yellow team... no idea. 

[krom]

13 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

 

you have no idea how much we wish he were on the red or yellow team... no idea. 

X1000

Not sure what you guys get out in that part of the country, but the rail road beds here turn into washboard, then into a "rhythm  section" without any rhythm.  The washboard is stuff that at 60 mph shakes your head and helmet to the point your vision gets blurry.  When it gets bigger, you have to either keep the hammer down, and live with it for 15 min, or slow way down and suffer through it for what feels like an eternity.

Edited September 25, 2023 by krom

[fortune46x]

38 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

Oh please, 170hp with a belt drive in an Iowa cornfield? 

#realworldtesting 

I'm going to type slowly for ya... 

d o 

y o u 

k n o w 

w h a t 

s h o c k 

l o a d I n g 

a 

d r I v e t r a I n 

i s 

? 

 

bless your heart for trying with this one... 

you have no idea how much we wish he were on the red or yellow team... no idea. 

except for the miles logged in mn and wisconsin lol ... and actually our trails are alot of tighter woods surprisingly with the occasional rail grade blast

[Tripleflipper]

47 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

Oh please, 170hp with a belt drive in an Iowa cornfield? 

#realworldtesting 

I'm going to type slowly for ya... 

d o 

y o u 

k n o w 

w h a t 

s h o c k 

l o a d I n g 

a 

d r I v e t r a I n 

i s 

? 

 

bless your heart for trying with this one... 

you have no idea how much we wish he were on the red or yellow team... no idea. 

We/I don't want him or the other 2 Amigoes. Poo needs to keep working on improving their new units, big time. And having folks blindly say things can't be any better does not help the improvement process.

[Deephaven]

55 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

you have no idea how much we wish he were on the red or yellow team... no idea. 

I think it is funny as shit.  Cat seems rather good at collecting that sort of idiot which amusingly is fundamentally the biggest reason compelling me not to buy another Cat.  I've still owned more green than any other color, but if the Catalyst isn't beyond a me too that is getting closer to no longer being true.

41 minutes ago, krom said:

...When it gets bigger, you have to either keep the hammer down, and live with it for 15 min, or slow way down and suffer through it for what feels like an eternity.

? There is only ONE choice.  Keep the hammer down.  No way in hell I could deal with it any other way.

[racinfarmer]

16 hours ago, favoritos said:

We have been doing corn and soybeans.  Maybe 2,500 acres done.  We had our stuff planted before that round of spring storms.  It sure is early for harvest.  Odd to dry corn that goes in with temps around 90!  105-107 day corn is running under 20% already.  We were joking that a couple good hair driers would probably dry this stuff.

 Beans are hit and miss right now.  It's completely dependent on the variety.  They are drying so fast that we couldn't wait until they were all ready.  Two of the boys are doing beans by themselves.  They are doing pretty good too.  They did a couple days around 150 acres.

To the belt drive discussion.  I'm well aware that belts can work and work well.  I'm not even going to argue the point.  My concern is whether or not they designed a system that will be adequate for high stress riding conditions.  I sure hope they didn't try to pinch a couple pennies and go cheap with a setup that is too weak.

We are doing end rows and splitting corn fields, but nothing more than that.  No beans yet, maybe end of the week or next week.  

6 hours ago, Not greg b said:

Rumor has it, it dicked over a few mail boxes and apologies were needed. 

The bin extension is a Dick's Welding one.  We have had them on several of our Lexions.  First one we had, there was a Dick's Welding decal on it.  My friend crawled up one night when it was parked, scraped most of it off and put a hand cut "BIG" decal in front of the Dick that he left on there.  Sold that machine with it still on there.

6 hours ago, AK440 said:

 

I really hope the belt drive is reliable for Cat and proves successful. However, do I have any faith in Textron? Nope. I pretty skeptical that the system will hold up once regular guys are riding them on trails and ditches. Repeated WFO pulls across lakes will produce heat. The shock loading on rough trails will take its toll. I don’t remember why Cat’s diamond drive was a pile but it was also plagued with problems. There must be a patent on tensioner technology for neither Cat or Polaris to use one. 

A friend of mine used to be a drivetrain engineer for Cat post DD days and this is his take on it.  The DD was designed for a 140hp 128(121) track and no more. 

They just started throwing it on anything and everything, plus consumers thought they could neglect them like they do chaincases.

Throw them on 160-170+hp sleds with 153" paddle tracks, tack on some neglect, and you get the bad rap.

6 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

Snowtech ran one for 2000 miles. No issues and that was a pre production sled. Running it again this coming season btw. 

Bold is the key.  Start running them down the line with true production parts and let the bean counters and procurement save $5/belt by going to some shop in China vs. Gates and they'll have a lot of fun on their hands.

[Doug]

2 hours ago, fortune46x said:

except for the miles logged in mn and wisconsin lol ... and actually our trails are alot of tighter woods surprisingly with the occasional rail grade blast

I know shock load to the belt was the reason Polaris was not using a belt drive on the flatlander sleds but that was a couple years ago.  There's some aftermarket belt drives that been out there and know a guy that's been running one for 2 years here in Wisconsin with any issues.

[awful knawful]

4 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

 

you have no idea how much we wish he were on the red or yellow team... no idea. 

No no no. He's good where he is. 👍