new cat big bore ...

[krom]

58 minutes ago, Cat45 said:

Those little jag z',s were cool sleds. I've been trying to find a nice 94 for awhile. 1 of my favorite sleds when i was a kid

A friend of mine's father had one.  I remember the "gold" plaque on the dash.

Eventually he was allowed to take it, and rode with a group of us on 700's in the early 00's.  no problem keeping up in the woods, or jumping roads, but not much luck in the fields lol.

That poor thing got shit whipped and put away wet, never complained.  I don't remember what happened to it, he got an F7

[J. Jackson]

3 hours ago, mnstang said:

I disagree.  If they were known as being failures, they wouldn't be desirable.  When I think of first year failures I think of the fusion, 12 procross, 850 patriot engine, etc.  None of these will ever have collector value.  If something is known as being a failure, it wouldn't be sought after.  03 firecat was not a flop first year they were a hit.  People still search them out.  93 zr is the most collectable sled in the last 40 years of production.  I don't remember the 1990 prowler being a fail.  Thundercat 3 generations all solid. Twin spar was solid every year.  Crossfire and M solid.  Cfr solid.  Snopro solid.  Four strokes solid.  Every world's fastest snowmobile for the past 30 years solid (all Arctic Cat).  Only challenge for world's fastest was the machz to the zr9 and the mach z was the hot pile of garbage.  I'm talking about first year epic flops like the fusion and the decade of new Polaris 800's.

Cats have the best track record in this department which is more impressive considering they've always had too dog models pushing industry limits.  900 triple 1000 triple first four strokes first turbos, z1 turbo, Yamaha triple, big twins etc etc etc.

Only black eye in there would be first year procross I will fully admit that but considering the history that is a stellar record for leading the pack and having durability at the same time.  Other brands were ankle biters and breaking more.  My buddy breaks a trailing arm every time he goes out, chassis is trashed, that happened for years and years until they copy catted.. just one example of ankle biters 

Challenge? The 900 was never a challenge to a 2005 Machz, not even close. My 04 Rev 8 was more than a DD 9 could handle. Let's be real. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by J. Jackson

[racinfarmer]

2 hours ago, Cat45 said:

Yeah in hindsight that's what i should've done too. Raced a few in 08 on it but it wasn't even in the same league as the snopro sleds. Sold it to start a business intending to get back into it but never did.

We scrimped and saved to get a 08.  What a ride that thing is.  Couldn't afford an 09, so that thing served for 2 partial years.

[mnstang]

1 hour ago, J. Jackson said:

Challenge? The 900 was never a challenge to a 2005 Machz, not even close. My 04 Rev 8 was more than a DD 9 could handle. Let's be real. 

Haha.  Another delusional hater, they're all coming out of the wood work now!  Can't handle anyone dropping CAT truth bombs?  Oh look more cat bashing, on freedom sledder no way?!

The extra hurtful part for you is after the mach loses to the zr with 140 less CC's in a straight line it will get absolutely WORKED by it in the trail.  Obliterated.

The extra extra hurtful part has got to be that while you still see the zr's out taking lunch money from anyone on the trail, mach z's are gone.  There can't be one left that hasn't blown up multiple times they were time bombs.  There was a guy here Polaris 550 or whatever and his mach z debacle broke his brain!!  It was a true lemon he was still butthurt about that sled 15 years later lololol I still own my sled 15 years later and it's faster than ever.

And the extra extra extra shitty part is how butt ass ugly they were.  I mean a solid 7 for skidoo standards no doubt.  Still butt ass ugly.

Here you go.  Read it and weep.  Just being real like you wanted.  Off a skidoo website.

Who else?  What else is in the hate well?  This shootout my goggles again?  Nah just more jealous little men ankle biters.  Couldn't even beat the little corner carving zr while it carried the torch between the tcat and the f1000 and z1t, this was your shot at the crown for one year out of 50 but couldn't do it.  Close, but not quite and they sacrificed reliability and are another forgotten sled.

800 rev, good one.

Notice you're all in a cat thread arguing about CATS.  AGAIN.  But not haters!!...

[Not greg b]

4 hours ago, awful knawful said:

@favoritoshad a pos 800 if I remember correctly.

Yes. His flame throwing made the procross flame thrower like a water gun 

[Not greg b]

4 hours ago, mnstang said:

See we go from talking first year epic flops to problems they had racing at the highest level.  The prowler sled was by no means a flop.  At the time it was a huge step forward in the whole industry, lighter, nimbler, compact, AWS suspension.  Roger skime said it was a really great sled for the masses and trail riding but for racing yes they wanted more, racing was way more important back then.  They wanted to move more around on it and more suspension, hydraulic brake etc, no doubt though the zr is just bigger and it is heavier too.  And the spindle breaking in the i500 was when the PROWLER was LEADING the race at the end and the racer hit a tree with the ski and spindle and it broke.  But again, we were talking epic first year disasters where Joe blow consumers are afraid to buy them, that is not what the prowler was, it was a good reliable sled and was popular.  The 93 zr was a race sled in 93.  Race sled.  It was whipped together in a few weeks from nothing.  Again, we're talking epic first year blunders, giant flop lemons (fusion), and then you turn it into "fit and finish" of a race-only sled.  These aren't the same things at all, not what was being discussed.  You're moving the goalposts as necessary when it fits what you want.

Cat has such a long list of epically cool badass sleds.  Polaris probably has a couple you could mention like the storm, the xcr800, ummm.. <crickets> and a couple other ones but the list is nowhere near as long and awesome as all of the benchmark cat sleds over the years that have also stood the test of time.  And their badass sleds were still #2's.  Oh yeah I forgot the 750fst hahaha 

Some times you have to lead the thirsty kitty to a glass of water. Then it perks up. 

[ZR6000RR]

Just now, Not greg b said:

Some times you have to lead the thirsty kitty to a glass of water. Then it perks up. 

Typical Greg. Must only have eyes in back of head.

[Not greg b]

8 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

Typical Greg. Must only have eyes in back of head.

We were riding 3 old guys style not on a trail. Had to call in some Eskimos to rescue the poor kitty. 

[ZR6000RR]

2 minutes ago, Not greg b said:

We were riding 3 old guys style not on a trail. Had to call in some Eskimos to rescue the poor kitty. 

Sure. Blame it on someone else. You sound like a former coworker I had.

[Deephaven]

6 hours ago, mnstang said:

When I think of first year failures I think of the fusion, 12 procross

Yep monstrous failures.  Serious wtfs!

6 hours ago, mnstang said:

850 patriot engine, etc.

This one is funny as the 800 ctech teethed just as poorly.  Hell all first EPA compliant big bore 2 strokes have been shitty from all manufacturers.

[mnstang]

28 minutes ago, Not greg b said:

Some times you have to lead the thirsty kitty to a glass of water. Then it perks up. 

My buddies bearcat has fallen through into swamp a couple times like that.  It doesn't help that it's a twin spar 1100 groomer special, possibly the heaviest snowmobile ever made 

[Crnr2Crnr]

46 minutes ago, mnstang said:

Haha.  Another delusional hater, they're all coming out of the wood work now!  Can't handle anyone dropping CAT truth bombs?  Oh look more cat bashing, on freedom sledder no way?!

The extra hurtful part for you is after the mach loses to the zr with 140 less CC's in a straight line it will get absolutely WORKED by it in the trail.  Obliterated.

The extra extra hurtful part has got to be that while you still see the zr's out taking lunch money from anyone on the trail, mach z's are gone.  There can't be one left that hasn't blown up multiple times they were time bombs.  There was a guy here Polaris 550 or whatever and his mach z debacle broke his brain!!  It was a true lemon he was still butthurt about that sled 15 years later lololol I still own my sled 15 years later and it's faster than ever.

And the extra extra extra shitty part is how butt ass ugly they were.  I mean a solid 7 for skidoo standards no doubt.  Still butt ass ugly.

Here you go.  Read it and weep.  Just being real like you wanted.  Off a skidoo website.

Who else?  What else is in the hate well?  This shootout my goggles again?  Nah just more jealous little men ankle biters.  Couldn't even beat the little corner carving zr while it carried the torch between the tcat and the f1000 and z1t, this was your shot at the crown for one year out of 50 but couldn't do it.  Close, but not quite and they sacrificed reliability and are another forgotten sled.

800 rev, good one.

Notice you're all in a cat thread arguing about CATS.  AGAIN.  But not haters!!...

 

see this  @ZR6000RR ?

study it and other posts like it... you might learn something about debating and having a good time here without calling people names and acting like someone with a third grade education.

[Deephaven]

Jimwit can't learn.

[Cat45]

1 hour ago, racinfarmer said:

We scrimped and saved to get a 08.  What a ride that thing is.  Couldn't afford an 09, so that thing served for 2 partial years.

That's 1 nice thing about xc racing, you don't necessarily need the newest sled to be competitive. I bet a well setup firecat 600 would still be a threat on a ice race

[ZR6000RR]

13 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

 

see this  @ZR6000RR ?

study it and other posts like it... you might learn something about debating and having a good time here without calling people names and acting like someone with a third grade education.

Why? You cannot have it both ways cipeethreeways. 

[ZR6000RR]

9 minutes ago, Cat45 said:

That's 1 nice thing about xc racing, you don't necessarily need the newest sled to be competitive. I bet a well setup firecat 600 would still be a threat on a ice race

No, and NO!

[Cat45]

3 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

No, and NO!

Speaking from experience are ya??

[Palu49]

13 minutes ago, Cat45 said:

That's 1 nice thing about xc racing, you don't necessarily need the newest sled to be competitive. I bet a well setup firecat 600 would still be a threat on a ice race

I think I’d rather have a well set up APV ZR 600 but either one gives you a distinct advantage of being slung low in the corners.

[ZR6000RR]

6 minutes ago, Cat45 said:

Speaking from experience are ya??

Just being honest. Had a Firecat. Set up trail burner. Like on rails, until you introduced one bump.

[Cat45]

1 minute ago, Palu49 said:

I think I’d rather have a well set up APV ZR 600 but either one gives you a distinct advantage of being slung low in the corners.

Apv 600 was fast but the f6 with a race shop xc tune and 10t drivers on ice was faster than any of the new stuff. It's been awhile but i think back then we could run 1in tracks that helped alot. The 1.25 really kill top end as intended. Sleds were getting too fast so pat found a way to slow them down so nobody died

[Ziemann]

This was one of my Franken-sleds back in the day. The 900 was and will forever be one of my favorite engines. 

[Cat45]

1 minute ago, ZR6000RR said:

Just being honest. Had a Firecat. Set up trail burner. Like on rails, until you introduced one bump.

Slammed to the ice they were wicked fast

[Palu49]

4 minutes ago, Cat45 said:

Apv 600 was fast but the f6 with a race shop xc tune and 10t drivers on ice was faster than any of the new stuff. It's been awhile but i think back then we could run 1in tracks that helped alot. The 1.25 really kill top end as intended. Sleds were getting too fast so pat found a way to slow them down so nobody died

I was thinking more chassis wise, I was always more comfortable on a ZR but I also never rode an absolutely dialed firecat chassis sled. If I could get a cheap 5 or 600 CCE I’d keep it around just to bomb the tight twisty stuff around home, on bump free days of course.

[Cat45]

2 minutes ago, Palu49 said:

I was thinking more chassis wise, I was always more comfortable on a ZR but I also never rode an absolutely dialed firecat chassis sled. If I could get a cheap 5 or 600 CCE I’d keep it around just to bomb the tight twisty stuff around home, on bump free days of course.

That would be a fun ride! 

[racinfarmer]

17 minutes ago, Cat45 said:

Apv 600 was fast but the f6 with a race shop xc tune and 10t drivers on ice was faster than any of the new stuff. It's been awhile but i think back then we could run 1in tracks that helped alot. The 1.25 really kill top end as intended. Sleds were getting too fast so pat found a way to slow them down so nobody died

The old traditional sleds flew on the ice.  104-105mph out of the liquid 440's, faster than that on the F5's and F6's.  

I'd probably feel more planted on a ZR or Firecat then I do on the Procross.