new cat big bore ...

[ZR6000RR]

2 hours ago, awful knawful said:

No doubt Mr. 600 miles a season.

In one weekend maybe fucktard.

[krom]

Every sled through the shop for service gets the case opened up for inspection

Pull the hood, muffler, toe kick, top belly pan screws.  loosen chain case screws, let drain slowly while working on the clutches. 1/4" impact with an extension or 2 to pull the screws.  The auto tensioners are on rev 4 or 5. The newest ones are pretty good.

The tensionser gets checked, every automatic one that is not the latest version gets replaced.  998 sleds get the roller retaining screws welded if they are still tight, assy gets replaced if they are loose or have fallen out (screws welded on new ones before install).

Even though I don't ride like old people fuck (unlike jimwit) I've never had one fail on my personal sled.  Of course I only have time to put around 1,000 miles on a sled in an average season, last couple have been sub 500 miles.  At least the new owner gets a deal on a clean low mile 1 year old sled .

Edited September 26, 2023 by krom

[awful knawful]

43 minutes ago, krom said:

Every sled through the shop for service gets the case opened up for inspection

Pull the hood, muffler, toe kick, top belly pan screws.  loosen chain case screws, let drain slowly while working on the clutches. 1/4" impact with an extension or 2 to pull the screws.  The auto tensioners are on rev 4 or 5. The newest ones are pretty good.

The tensionser gets checked, every automatic one that is not the latest version gets replaced.  998 sleds get the roller retaining screws welded if they are still tight, assy gets replaced if they are loose or have fallen out (screws welded on new ones before install).

Even though I don't ride like old people fuck (unlike jimwit) I've never had one fail on my personal sled.  Of course I only have time to put around 1,000 miles on a sled in an average season, last couple have been sub 500 miles.  At least the new owner gets a deal on a clean low mile 1 year old sled .

What sled are you running this winter?

[Not greg b]

After braking the skid in my ricky racer I made sure to ride in prime conditions with no bumps. It never broke again from bumps 

[krom]

1 hour ago, awful knawful said:

What sled are you running this winter?

have an RXC on order, but if someone wants it bad enough they can buy it, and I'll ride whatever is sitting around. 

Hopefully it'll be an 858 sooner than later

Edited September 26, 2023 by krom

[Cat45]

On 9/23/2023 at 7:06 PM, mnstang said:

Ok I just read hater squad #1 dip shit post because zr6000 quoted him.  All first year cats are shit?  Haha ok?  I'll give you the procross, ok.  First year prowler?  First year zr?  First year thundercat?  First years z/zr snopro?  First year firecat?  First year M/crossfire?  First year twin spar?  First year four strokes and turbos?  First year snopro race/500's?  First year ascender/alpha?  So one means all?  What a dumb ass seriously.

Historically cat has first year sleds that perform right away with no major issues, way more than anyone else.  Just more proof he has no clue what he talks about 

1st year prowler was a fail, 1st year zr was great but had lots of issues, broken bulkheads, hoods that cracked like glass, a few other things I'm forgetting. 1st year firecat had chassis cracking issues(all years actually did), cooling issues, mapping issues, procross was an abortion. I'm a 40yr cat rider too but they sure haven't been perfect

[wrinkly balls]

I've had 26 cats since 1989 and have never had an issue with any of them!!!! Yes my goggles are green and sometimes foggy!!!!!! 

[mnstang]

3 hours ago, Cat45 said:

1st year prowler was a fail, 1st year zr was great but had lots of issues, broken bulkheads, hoods that cracked like glass, a few other things I'm forgetting. 1st year firecat had chassis cracking issues(all years actually did), cooling issues, mapping issues, procross was an abortion. I'm a 40yr cat rider too but they sure haven't been perfect

I disagree.  If they were known as being failures, they wouldn't be desirable.  When I think of first year failures I think of the fusion, 12 procross, 850 patriot engine, etc.  None of these will ever have collector value.  If something is known as being a failure, it wouldn't be sought after.  03 firecat was not a flop first year they were a hit.  People still search them out.  93 zr is the most collectable sled in the last 40 years of production.  I don't remember the 1990 prowler being a fail.  Thundercat 3 generations all solid. Twin spar was solid every year.  Crossfire and M solid.  Cfr solid.  Snopro solid.  Four strokes solid.  Every world's fastest snowmobile for the past 30 years solid (all Arctic Cat).  Only challenge for world's fastest was the machz to the zr9 and the mach z was the hot pile of garbage.  I'm talking about first year epic flops like the fusion and the decade of new Polaris 800's.

Cats have the best track record in this department which is more impressive considering they've always had too dog models pushing industry limits.  900 triple 1000 triple first four strokes first turbos, z1 turbo, Yamaha triple, big twins etc etc etc.

Only black eye in there would be first year procross I will fully admit that but considering the history that is a stellar record for leading the pack and having durability at the same time.  Other brands were ankle biters and breaking more.  My buddy breaks a trailing arm every time he goes out, chassis is trashed, that happened for years and years until they copy catted.. just one example of ankle biters 

[Tripleflipper]

17 minutes ago, mnstang said:

I disagree.  If they were known as being failures, they wouldn't be desirable.  When I think of first year failures I think of the fusion, 12 procross, 850 patriot engine, etc.  None of these will ever have collector value.  If something is known as being a failure, it wouldn't be sought after.  03 firecat was not a flop first year they were a hit.  People still search them out.  93 zr is the most collectable sled in the last 40 years of production.  I don't remember the 1990 prowler being a fail.  Thundercat 3 generations all solid. Twin spar was solid every year.  Crossfire and M solid.  Cfr solid.  Snopro solid.  Four strokes solid.  Every world's fastest snowmobile for the past 30 years solid (all Arctic Cat).  Only challenge for world's fastest was the machz to the zr9 and the mach z was the hot pile of garbage.  I'm talking about first year epic flops like the fusion and the decade of new Polaris 800's.

Cats have the best track record in this department which is more impressive considering they've always had too dog models pushing industry limits.  900 triple 1000 triple first four strokes first turbos, z1 turbo, Yamaha triple, big twins etc etc etc.

Only black eye in there would be first year procross I will fully admit that but considering the history that is a stellar record for leading the pack and having durability at the same time.  Other brands were ankle biters and breaking more.  My buddy breaks a trailing arm every time he goes out, chassis is trashed, that happened for years and years until they copy catted.. just one example of ankle biters 

My 2000 XCR would have something to say about that. But it must be true, one of the 3 amigoes at his finest says so.

[krom]

first year procross was easier to live through than the first year F7.

Neither had any real major problems that cost lots of folks riding time.. 

Only the 4 stroke reverse problems had customers bringing in unrideable sleds.  Even those  I could eliminate reverse with a washer and bolt, locking the sled in FWD and get the sled back on the trail.

03  recoil rope breaking was a far bigger pita to deal with than anything in 12

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by krom

[Cat45]

41 minutes ago, mnstang said:

I disagree.  If they were known as being failures, they wouldn't be desirable.  When I think of first year failures I think of the fusion, 12 procross, 850 patriot engine, etc.  None of these will ever have collector value.  If something is known as being a failure, it wouldn't be sought after.  03 firecat was not a flop first year they were a hit.  People still search them out.  93 zr is the most collectable sled in the last 40 years of production.  I don't remember the 1990 prowler being a fail.  Thundercat 3 generations all solid. Twin spar was solid every year.  Crossfire and M solid.  Cfr solid.  Snopro solid.  Four strokes solid.  Every world's fastest snowmobile for the past 30 years solid (all Arctic Cat).  Only challenge for world's fastest was the machz to the zr9 and the mach z was the hot pile of garbage.  I'm talking about first year epic flops like the fusion and the decade of new Polaris 800's.

Cats have the best track record in this department which is more impressive considering they've always had too dog models pushing industry limits.  900 triple 1000 triple first four strokes first turbos, z1 turbo, Yamaha triple, big twins etc etc etc.

Only black eye in there would be first year procross I will fully admit that but considering the history that is a stellar record for leading the pack and having durability at the same time.  Other brands were ankle biters and breaking more.  My buddy breaks a trailing arm every time he goes out, chassis is trashed, that happened for years and years until they copy catted.. just one example of ankle biters 

The prowler was such an epic failure it brought the zr chassis a year sooner than planned. Have you seen a 93 zr in person that was actually ridden, badass sled for sure, but the fit and finish that everyone talks about was the worst I've ever seen. Most of the 1st year fails evolved into good machines though. Imo the only sled they built lately without major 1st.year issues and stayed rock solid was the twinspar. I have friends that sold late model procross sleds to go back to an 11 twinspar. 

[ZR6000RR]

11 minutes ago, Cat45 said:

The prowler was such an epic failure it brought the zr chassis a year sooner than planned. Have you seen a 93 zr in person that was actually ridden, badass sled for sure, but the fit and finish that everyone talks about was the worst I've ever seen. Most of the 1st year fails evolved into good machines though. Imo the only sled they built lately without major 1st.year issues and stayed rock solid was the twinspar. I have friends that sold late model procross sleds to go back to an 11 twinspar. 

I had a Prowler and as a trail sled, it was just fine. In racing, the spindles were the weak link. Lots of snapped spindles. I had a 94 EXT and that was a great sled but the AWS 3 lacked clearance on the belly. I'm guessing that caused a lot of bulkhead cracks. When they released the AWS 4, most issues went away.

Edited September 26, 2023 by ZR6000RR

[krom]

15 minutes ago, Cat45 said:

The prowler was such an epic failure it brought the zr chassis a year sooner than planned. Have you seen a 93 zr in person that was actually ridden, badass sled for sure, but the fit and finish that everyone talks about was the worst I've ever seen. Most of the 1st year fails evolved into good machines though. Imo the only sled they built lately without major 1st.year issues and stayed rock solid was the twinspar. I have friends that sold late model procross sleds to go back to an 11 twinspar. 

first year twinspar had teething issues too, updates off the top of my head include remap, exhaust melting/staining the bellypan, ccu, and poor performance from the 1000

didn't the prowler have all kinds of issues with ball joints too?? or was that a different sled

Edited September 26, 2023 by krom

[Cat45]

7 minutes ago, krom said:

first year twinspar had teething issues too, updates off the top of my head include remap, exhaust melting/staining the bellypan, ccu, and poor performance from the 1000

didn't the prowler have all kinds of issues with ball joints too?? or was that a different sled

Yeah the prowler had the front end issues. I don't remember many finishing the I500 those years. Heard stories that hibbert pushed the zr development up after a poor finish in the I500. I trail rode and xc raced a 07 f6 for 2 years and the only issue i had was a ccu. when i sold it it was still a solid sled. They were heavy pigs but tough as hell. My firecats chassis were looser than a $2 whore after 1 season. Rivets loose, cracked bulkheads and tunnels. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Cat45

[Bontz]

24 minutes ago, krom said:

first year twinspar had teething issues too, updates off the top of my head include remap, exhaust melting/staining the bellypan, ccu, and poor performance from the 1000

didn't the prowler have all kinds of issues with ball joints too?? or was that a different sled

OTB ... the 800 was an underachiever too.  I still remember my Dad and his buddies saying, "That thing may sound like an 800 but it performs like a 600!!" 

[Cat45]

1 minute ago, Bontz said:

OTB ... the 800 was an underachiever too.  I still remember my Dad and his buddies saying, "That thing may sound like an 800 but it performs like a 600!!" 

My 19 800rr was the best performing 600 i ever owned. Took $$ to make it run like it should've from the factory

[mnstang]

See we go from talking first year epic flops to problems they had racing at the highest level.  The prowler sled was by no means a flop.  At the time it was a huge step forward in the whole industry, lighter, nimbler, compact, AWS suspension.  Roger skime said it was a really great sled for the masses and trail riding but for racing yes they wanted more, racing was way more important back then.  They wanted to move more around on it and more suspension, hydraulic brake etc, no doubt though the zr is just bigger and it is heavier too.  And the spindle breaking in the i500 was when the PROWLER was LEADING the race at the end and the racer hit a tree with the ski and spindle and it broke.  But again, we were talking epic first year disasters where Joe blow consumers are afraid to buy them, that is not what the prowler was, it was a good reliable sled and was popular.  The 93 zr was a race sled in 93.  Race sled.  It was whipped together in a few weeks from nothing.  Again, we're talking epic first year blunders, giant flop lemons (fusion), and then you turn it into "fit and finish" of a race-only sled.  These aren't the same things at all, not what was being discussed.  You're moving the goalposts as necessary when it fits what you want.

Cat has such a long list of epically cool badass sleds.  Polaris probably has a couple you could mention like the storm, the xcr800, ummm.. <crickets> and a couple other ones but the list is nowhere near as long and awesome as all of the benchmark cat sleds over the years that have also stood the test of time.  And their badass sleds were still #2's.  Oh yeah I forgot the 750fst hahaha 

[awful knawful]

46 minutes ago, krom said:

first year twinspar had teething issues too, updates off the top of my head include remap, exhaust melting/staining the bellypan, ccu, and poor performance from the 1000

didn't the prowler have all kinds of issues with ball joints too?? or was that a different sled

@favoritoshad a pos 800 if I remember correctly.

[Cat45]

7 minutes ago, mnstang said:

See we go from talking first year epic flops to problems they had racing at the highest level.  The prowler sled was by no means a flop.  At the time it was a huge step forward in the whole industry, lighter, nimbler, compact, AWS suspension.  Roger skime said it was a really great sled for the masses and trail riding but for racing yes they wanted more, racing was way more important back then.  They wanted to move more around on it and more suspension, hydraulic brake etc, no doubt though the zr is just bigger and it is heavier too.  And the spindle breaking in the i500 was when the PROWLER was LEADING the race at the end and the racer hit a tree with the ski and spindle and it broke.  But again, we were talking epic first year disasters where Joe blow consumers are afraid to buy them, that is not what the prowler was, it was a good reliable sled and was popular.  The 93 zr was a race sled in 93.  Race sled.  It was whipped together in a few weeks from nothing.  Again, we're talking epic first year blunders, giant flop lemons (fusion), and then you turn it into "fit and finish" of a race-only sled.  These aren't the same things at all, not what was being discussed.  You're moving the goalposts as necessary when it fits what you want.

Cat has such a long list of epically cool badass sleds.  Polaris probably has a couple you could mention like the storm, the xcr800, ummm.. <crickets> and a couple other ones but the list is nowhere near as long and awesome as all of the benchmark cat sleds over the years that have also stood the test of time.  And their badass sleds were still #2's.  Oh yeah I forgot the 750fst hahaha 

You could get a 93 zr right from the dealer. Sure it was a limited build but anyone could get 1. I bought mine right off the floor at tousley sports. Zrt was another 1 1st year that they were out, motor mounts broke almost every weekend on my 95. I'm a loyal cat guy but I'm not blind to the issues they have had. Our family has run nothing but cat since the early 70s. 

[airflite1]

38 minutes ago, mnstang said:

See we go from talking first year epic flops to problems they had racing at the highest level.  The prowler sled was by no means a flop.  At the time it was a huge step forward in the whole industry, lighter, nimbler, compact, AWS suspension.  Roger skime said it was a really great sled for the masses and trail riding but for racing yes they wanted more, racing was way more important back then.  They wanted to move more around on it and more suspension, hydraulic brake etc, no doubt though the zr is just bigger and it is heavier too.  And the spindle breaking in the i500 was when the PROWLER was LEADING the race at the end and the racer hit a tree with the ski and spindle and it broke.  But again, we were talking epic first year disasters where Joe blow consumers are afraid to buy them, that is not what the prowler was, it was a good reliable sled and was popular.  The 93 zr was a race sled in 93.  Race sled.  It was whipped together in a few weeks from nothing.  Again, we're talking epic first year blunders, giant flop lemons (fusion), and then you turn it into "fit and finish" of a race-only sled.  These aren't the same things at all, not what was being discussed.  You're moving the goalposts as necessary when it fits what you want.

Cat has such a long list of epically cool badass sleds.  Polaris probably has a couple you could mention like the storm, the xcr800, ummm.. <crickets> and a couple other ones but the list is nowhere near as long and awesome as all of the benchmark cat sleds over the years that have also stood the test of time.  And their badass sleds were still #2's.  Oh yeah I forgot the 750fst hahaha 

Don't give me nightmares of racing the Prowler special. I had both a Prowler SP and a 400XC, the 2 sleds weren't even comparable, the biggest issue of racing a prowler was getting the side pods to seal and any kind of a hit from the side would destroy your engine and clutch, the little Jag SP's you like were awesome but the Prowlers sucked.

Edited September 26, 2023 by airflite1

[Cat45]

Just now, airflite1 said:

Don't give nightmares of the Prowler special. I had both a Prowler SP and a 400XC, the 2 sleds weren't even comparable, the biggest issue of racing a prowler was getting the side pods to seal and any kind of a hit from the side would destroy your engine and clutch, the little Jag SP's you like were awesome but the Prowlers sucked.

Those little jag z',s were cool sleds. I've been trying to find a nice 94 for awhile. 1 of my favorite sleds when i was a kid

[mnstang]

23 minutes ago, Cat45 said:

You could get a 93 zr right from the dealer. Sure it was a limited build but anyone could get 1. I bought mine right off the floor at tousley sports. Zrt was another 1 1st year that they were out, motor mounts broke almost every weekend on my 95. I'm a loyal cat guy but I'm not blind to the issues they have had. Our family has run nothing but cat since the early 70s. 

I'm not saying there are never any problems.  I'm saying they are not total first year lemons to be afraid of besides the 2012.  The 93 was a limited build race sled whether you bought it at the dealer doesn't change that.  They had to crank out 500 real quick to race with it.  I never once nitpicked on fit and finish of a sled either but I've also never had a cat where I looked at anything like that and thought anything was bad with it and it bothered me.  It's a toy that's made to pound the living crap out of and give you cool feelings when you're riding.  If another brand has 1/32" tighter gaps I don't really care, cats still look the best anyway.

[Cat45]

13 minutes ago, mnstang said:

I'm not saying there are never any problems.  I'm saying they are not total first year lemons to be afraid of besides the 2012.  The 93 was a limited build race sled whether you bought it at the dealer doesn't change that.  They had to crank out 500 real quick to race with it.  I never once nitpicked on fit and finish of a sled either but I've also never had a cat where I looked at anything like that and thought anything was bad with it and it bothered me.  It's a toy that's made to pound the living crap out of and give you cool feelings when you're riding.  If another brand has 1/32" tighter gaps I don't really care, cats still look the best anyway.

I agree on the fit and finish,  just make it perform as it's supposed to and I'm happy. 

[racinfarmer]

2 hours ago, Cat45 said:

Yeah the prowler had the front end issues. I don't remember many finishing the I500 those years. Heard stories that hibbert pushed the zr development up after a poor finish in the I500. I trail rode and xc raced a 07 f6 for 2 years and the only issue i had was a ccu. when i sold it it was still a solid sled. They were heavy pigs but tough as hell. My firecats chassis were looser than a $2 whore after 1 season. Rivets loose, cracked bulkheads and tunnels. 

I avoided racing the Barney in 07.  Raced a year old F6.

The trick was being too poor to afford a 07.

[Cat45]

Just now, racinfarmer said:

I avoided racing the Barney in 07.  Raced a year old F6.

The trick was being too poor to afford a 07.

Yeah in hindsight that's what i should've done too. Raced a few in 08 on it but it wasn't even in the same league as the snopro sleds. Sold it to start a business intending to get back into it but never did.