2024 Sleds... what's coming

[p51mstg]

1 hour ago, jdsky said:

Dry weights are the only way to compare apples to apples.  The thunderwinder is what it is.  The heaviest four stroke trail sled on the market and at least 70lbs more than my 20' XRS.  It was noticeable when I test rode a winder at my dealer.  But again I really don't care because it is what it is and everyone wants what they want when spending a shit ton of cash these days.

One primary point in my post being that if cat's sleds were all lighter than the competition you bet your ass they would be publishing them in the spec sheets and that marketing dude from Atlanta, GA would be putting up billboards everywhere declaring that advantage.  They don't because there isn't one.

If the catalyst changes that and ends up being significantly lighter than the competition I am sure it will be talked about everywhere.  So far saying it is 10% lighter than a procross is not really saying much unless you are riding a procross. 

 

You could be right, that the Catalyst is probably going to be - at best - in the same ballpark as the competition.  However, the guys I talked to at the photo shoot were more than a little confidant in their weight loss program, and I think there's a better than 50/50 chance that they can beat the competition at the biggest loser scales.

[J. Jackson]

They're going to extremes tho to lighten things a bit. When you start thinning the coating on wiring harnesses I'd be a little concerned. The amount of chaffing that goes on could be concerning. Weight is such a huge marketing deal.

[ZR6000RR]

They are not thinning the coating. They eliminated over 100' of of the wiring in the harnesses. Located components closer to where they connect to the motor and other items.

[Crnr2Crnr]

will all this weight and materials saving be reflected in the price..... 🤔

 

nah...

[ZR6000RR]

3 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

will all this weight and materials saving be reflected in the price..... 🤔

 

nah...

Probably not. Will be priced like everyone else. Take what the buyers are willing to spend.

[stinkipinki]

3 hours ago, jdsky said:

Dry weights are the only way to compare apples to apples.  The thunderwinder is what it is.  The heaviest four stroke trail sled on the market and at least 70lbs more than my 20' XRS.  I So far saying it is 10% lighter than a procross is not really saying much unless you are riding a procross. 

 

The Mach Z weighs about 25 lbs more then the Thundercat.
Also, the ProCross isn't the heaviest sled out there, maybe with a triple 4 stroke Turbo.
I remember seeing a shootout where a stock Viper weighed within a few lbs, if not less then a 137 Doo and 136 Polaris.

Edited February 27, 2023 by stinkipinki

[krom]

1 hour ago, J. Jackson said:

They're going to extremes tho to lighten things a bit. When you start thinning the coating on wiring harnesses I'd be a little concerned. The amount of chaffing that goes on could be concerning. Weight is such a huge marketing deal.

They didn't thin any coatings.....

When they designed the new chassis, they included a wire harness routing that allows them to use over 100' less wire, than the pro-cross

[J. Jackson]

4 minutes ago, krom said:

They didn't thin any coatings.....

When they designed the new chassis, they included a wire harness routing that allows them to use over 100' less wire, than the pro-cross

My bad on that, I thought that I had read that somewhere. 

[Doug]

4 hours ago, p51mstg said:

You could be right, that the Catalyst is probably going to be - at best - in the same ballpark as the competition.  However, the guys I talked to at the photo shoot were more than a little confidant in their weight loss program, and I think there's a better than 50/50 chance that they can beat the competition at the biggest loser scales.

From my past work experience you can make what you think is the best design and test the hell out of it before releasing into product.  It's when the consumer gets their hand on it is when you get the WTF moments to what they did do to make it fail.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Doug

[jdsky]

21 minutes ago, stinkipinki said:

The Mach Z weighs about 25 lbs more then the Thundercat.
Also, the ProCross isn't the heaviest sled out there, maybe with a triple 4 stroke Turbo.
I remember seeing a shootout where a stock Viper weighed within a few lbs, if not less then a 137 Doo and 136 Polaris.

Not that anyone reallly gives a shit but the thunderwinder is not lighter than the mach z.  Here is the results of the weigh in done for the 2022 shootout krom referenced.

From the SnowGoer article:

However, the Mach Z weighed about 30 pounds less than the EPS-equipped Thundercat when the sleds were scaled in – the TCat weighed 645 pounds when carrying 4 gallons of fuel while the Mach Z was at 620 with 5 gallons. Knowing that gas weighs about 6.1 pounds per gallon, the difference is about 31 pounds.

So, if you delete 4 gallons of gas from the thunderwinder you get 620.4lbs.  Now delete the engine oil, approx. 8lbs and it comes in at 612lbs.

[jdsky]

The miss for me with the thunderwinder was not just the difference in weight but where it sits in the chassis and how the sled feels and handles.  The G4 wide was designed around and for the engine.  Not so much for the procross and the yamaha engine and it's evident riding both of them back to back.  

What I would be most interested in from cat is a catalyst chassis purpose built for the yamaha engine.  That's an opportunity but not sure it will ever happen.  

[Crnr2Crnr]

35 minutes ago, Doug said:

From my past work experience you can make what you think is the best design and test the hell out of it before releasing into product.  It's when the consumer gets their hand on it is when you get the WTF moments to what they did to make it fail.

which is precisely why I and a few others here feel the Snocross and Cross Country racers should have been piss pounding them this season rather than next.

14 minutes ago, jdsky said:

Not that anyone reallly gives a shit but the thunderwinder is not lighter than the mach z.  Here is the results of the weigh in done for the 2022 shootout krom referenced.

From the SnowGoer article:

However, the Mach Z weighed about 30 pounds less than the EPS-equipped Thundercat when the sleds were scaled in – the TCat weighed 645 pounds when carrying 4 gallons of fuel while the Mach Z was at 620 with 5 gallons. Knowing that gas weighs about 6.1 pounds per gallon, the difference is about 31 pounds.

So, if you delete 4 gallons of gas from the thunderwinder you get 620.4lbs.  Now delete the engine oil, approx. 8lbs and it comes in at 612lbs.

IDK about where you guys ride or live, but locally most of the folks I see on the big winders or t-cats appear to weigh at least half of those sleds dry weight.  

[jdsky]

Just now, Crnr2Crnr said:

IDK about where you guys ride or live, but locally most of the folks I see on the big winders or t-cats appear to weigh at least half of those sleds dry weight.  

I think we both ride in the North Woods region.  I actually see far more heavyweights on their ultra-lightweight two smokers.  I cannot remember the last time I even came across a thunderwinder when riding and we saw an absolute shit ton of sleds during derby week this year. 

By far Poos sales have been really strong the past couple of seasons and starting to see almost as many poos as doos on the trails.  When we come across cats the majority are ancient vintage 90's shit and of course we still have an 07' in our group as the 06' was finally retired after last season.

[Crnr2Crnr]

47 minutes ago, jdsky said:

I think we both ride in the North Woods region.  I actually see far more heavyweights on their ultra-lightweight two smokers.  I cannot remember the last time I even came across a thunderwinder when riding and we saw an absolute shit ton of sleds during derby week this year. 

By far Poos sales have been really strong the past couple of seasons and starting to see almost as many poos as doos on the trails.  When we come across cats the majority are ancient vintage 90's shit and of course we still have an 07' in our group as the 06' was finally retired after last season.

get down around north-central WI on the potato fields or mountain bay trail.  you'd be amazed at the number of corn fed farm boys with winders and SRX's.  Antigo Yamaha sells a metric shit ton of them every season.

tons of Apex's and whatever other Yamahas have pipes under the seat.

 

rail beds... the hunting grounds of the mighty SnoPro 500

picture shot in it's natural habitat ready to pounce on an unsuspecting victim... 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Crnr2Crnr

[airflite1]

1 hour ago, krom said:

They didn't thin any coatings.....

When they designed the new chassis, they included a wire harness routing that allows them to use over 100' less wire, than the pro-cross

You must have read the same PR as Jimmy, your posts are almost identical. 😂😂😂

[jdsky]

Is there 100' of wire in a sled to begin with?  Maybe that old style gauge requires 32 conductors to power it up.

[ZR6000RR]

1 hour ago, jdsky said:

Is there 100' of wire in a sled to begin with?  Maybe that old style gauge requires 32 conductors to power it up.

Each wire at 6-8 feet adds up. My old harness for my 2018 lighting, ignition and accessory has 18 separate wires at least going to the sled harness. Pretty easy to get it up to 100 feet when you add up every harness and wire count.

[Not greg b]

3 hours ago, krom said:

They didn't thin any coatings.....

When they designed the new chassis, they included a wire harness routing that allows them to use over 100' less wire, than the pro-cross

I wonder how many parts they were able to knock out of the hood? They had a lot of crap in the gen 1 pc hood. The gen 2 hood I never had to dismantle 

[fortune46x]

9 hours ago, krom said:

manufacture claimed dry weight doesn't include gas, oil, chain lube, shock oil, coolant, grease, belt, tool kit, any accessories, bags etc.

The "tank" procross, was lighter than the XP.  The G5 doo is heavier than the XP, the catalyst is 10% lighter than the procross

@fortune46x should be able to post the weights of 600 XC sleds from all the manus, for comparison

If this shit show is still going on tomorrow I can update it when I get to a computer. 

[ZR6000RR]

7 minutes ago, fortune46x said:

If this shit show is still going on tomorrow I can update it when I get to a computer. 

Krommer is involved. Came off a hard cleaning case. Lots of ammonia inhalation went on there.

[Gym Ramstud]

Gym just got his Commodore 64 back from a repair shop in Arkansas.  Seems Gym's computer caught some sort of flu bug after he clicked on a link in an email from some fella in Nigeria that was down on his luck and trying to get his families money back.  Gym has had a great winter ripping wheelies and spraying roost all over Norman county.  Gym has never exceeded 50mph and has four sets of brake pads and two clutch springs replaced under warranty by his dealer.  Gym is grateful for his dealer because Gym doesn't know how to fix anything.  Gym is going to make an effort to catch up now.  Gym is confident the Commodore 64 will be getting sent back to Arkansas after this.

  

On 2/18/2023 at 7:18 PM, mnstang said:

There are alot of Midwest people that go out West.

Not that you need to go out West to purchase, or use, an off trail machine for Midwest residents.

Gym rides an off trail sled on the trail. Gym leaves a trench of snow every 73 feet.  Gym has a fancy tape measure.

On 2/18/2023 at 8:10 PM, Crnr2Crnr said:

possibly, but as we've discussed before there's little to no opportunity for OTR close to where I live... and the vast majority of my riding friends ride trails here.  I also see quite a few folks all season long driving to Northern WI and the UP with full on mtn sleds, and that I find quite hilarious, as do people from Northern WI and the Yoop.

Gym thinks you need to expand your horizons.  Gym was once like you.  Gym discovered there's more to snowmachining than following some silly orange triangles.  

On 2/19/2023 at 9:00 AM, jdsky said:

There is no legal off trail riding for the public in WI other than ditches and right of way's and there are rules and limitations on that as well.

Gym would like to know more about the ditches in WI.  Gym makes an annual run to WI for cheese and the inevitable constipation that follows. 

On 2/19/2023 at 5:08 PM, AK440 said:

On the bold, can anyone tell me if a Pro RMK 9R with a 165 2.75” paddle is faster than a Pro Khaos Slash Boost with a 165 3”? We mostly ride 2” of fresh wet snow, no base in the soybean fields until the cops chase us off.

Gym doesn't understand your complaints.  Gym rips wheelies and sprays roost in fields of all kinds of vegetables and feed stock.  Gym feels you may be limiting yourself.

On 2/20/2023 at 10:51 AM, Ziemann said:

Complete shithole. That is why our hotels are packed every weekend where I live with people from Minnesota. They apparently think it really sucks. 

Gym has heard of this place in his local coffee shop.  Gym meets there once a week to brag and tell not whole truths.  

On 2/20/2023 at 8:17 PM, Crnr2Crnr said:

 

 

Gym can associate with the Fins.  Gym also enjoys walking around outside in his briefs.  Gym was asked not to dress like that any longer while turning the stop and go sign during road construction.

On 2/20/2023 at 11:17 PM, Not greg b said:

The shot system is like cat’s battery less efi system when it comes to that. When cold, cat says 2 pulls to start. A lot of times it will start with one pull after sitting over night. The shot system is like that. You have a 50/50 chance of it working after sitting over night. 
 

the water injection is them marketing “meth injection” the automotive world has used forever with a different word. It is basically windshield washer fluid. Meth injection is a way the automotive world uses to get around fuel system capacities, inter coolers, not enough octane. 

Gym feels that if a person can't pull start their snowmobile they should take up ice fishing or something more manly like curling or figure skating.

On 2/21/2023 at 9:54 PM, krom said:

Where are my bonus points for telling you all about the doo turbo 850 trail sled? 

Gym is interested in this bonus program.  Gym enjoys free schwag but usually justs pays through the nose for it so his dealer gives him insider knowledge.

On 2/21/2023 at 9:58 PM, Badger** said:

 

Gym carries several little flags with him to alert people of his intentions.  Gym uses orange flags for wheelies.  Gym uses a purple flag flag for roost.  Gym uses a checkered flag for people that stop, watch and get sprayed by roost and applaud. 

On 2/22/2023 at 8:01 AM, stinkipinki said:

Since I bought my Can Am I get BRP emails all the time with new products and discounts on things.
Here's a snippet from one a few days ago...obviously old news now, I believe Snowtrax has a video on the machine too.

Gym has seen several of your posts applauding multiple brands.  Gym's workplace also has a unisex bathroom.

On 2/22/2023 at 10:31 AM, Crnr2Crnr said:

was a bit surprised they called out POLARIS without calling out POLARIS

Gym missed that.  Gym wonders why Canadians so dependent upon the US market would call out an American company.  Gym went to Canada once.  Gym isn't allowed there again.

On 2/22/2023 at 8:02 PM, HSR said:

You noticed that 

Gym missed it.

On 2/23/2023 at 6:52 AM, J. Jackson said:

I remember when RER was introed on Doo's, mostly Cat riders talked shit about how much of a pussy you had to be to have reverse.

Gym had his reverse disconnected by his dealer.  Gym wheelies out of most any situation.  Gym's dealer is the best. 

On 2/23/2023 at 12:27 PM, Crnr2Crnr said:

start a thread and let's see what kind of quality you can bring to the place rather than what you've done on every other site you've been booted from 

sure do ride Jimwit... Arctic Cats even.  with the snow our trails should be back in business for the weekend.  there's even pictures 

https://www.freedomsledder.com/index.php?/topic/35671-post-a-picture/

Gym would trench those trails to bare ground for amusement.  Gym would have to time his braking just right with all those sticks with needles on them.  

On 2/23/2023 at 1:17 PM, Simple Jim said:

Those arctic cat idiots wouldn't know what to do with a drifter before the turbo.. other than let sasquatch fuck them

Gym is confused by this statement.  Gym has seen many pictures of bigfoot, the lochness monster and a cute little Leprechaun who sells cereal.  

On 2/23/2023 at 3:17 PM, ZR6000RR said:

Still smarter than the runner up to custodian of the year though.

Gym doesn't look down his nose at others line of work to feed and nourish one's family.  Gym thinks you shouldn't be such a feeling hurter.  

On 2/23/2023 at 3:44 PM, ZR6000RR said:

I never take my phone with when I ride. Don't want the distraction. 

Gym understands this.  If Gym has a problem, he usually just walks to the nearest house and calls his dealer.  Gym knocks now after the last misunderstanding that involved 911 and his friend from the Sheriff's department. 

On 2/23/2023 at 4:36 PM, ZR6000RR said:

That is why I don't take it. Not really into taking photos either.

Gym whips out his 35mm camera on occasion.  Gym hates driving 289 miles to Kmart to get the film developed. 

On 2/24/2023 at 3:40 PM, krom said:

All will be mostly black, with graphics

ZR will be green and white,

XR orange blue and white

Utility red and white

M blue and white

 

Gym laughs at these limitations.  Gym has always purchased the color scheme he desires. 

On 2/24/2023 at 10:57 PM, krom said:

They are calling the gauge released in 2014 the deluxe gauge for 24 

The new gauge is the base model, and on sleds without Atac 

Gym looked at his gauge once this winter when the low fuel light was blinking.  Gym carries a rubber hose with him.  Gym found a tractor that apparently wasn't being used.  Gym left a $10 bill on the seat.

On 2/24/2023 at 11:13 PM, Doug said:

 

Gym would be thrilled to see a big MSDOS comeback. 

On 2/25/2023 at 8:19 AM, Doug said:

 

Gym giggled over this.  Gym has the red version on his bureau.  Gym calls his aunt Milly with it once a week.

On 2/25/2023 at 11:37 AM, jdsky said:

I have wondered what the fuck is up with that little seat?  Maybe cat guys are getting smaller in their old age.  Maybe that is where they were able to shave so much of the weight off the thing compared to the old chassis.  

Gym stands up to ride like a man.  Gym does the same to urinate.  

On 2/26/2023 at 12:56 PM, mnstang said:

God this site sucks.  90% miserable people 

Gym is no math expert.  Gym feels you are estimating.  

On 2/26/2023 at 1:41 PM, Not greg b said:

I see the 7000 is back. I wonder if they will kill it off when the times comes actually order them like last year?

Gym wonders if this is referencing millimeters.  Gym isn't a fan of the metric system.  Gym had several legal issues in Canada due to the metric system. 

11 hours ago, Not greg b said:

With Montana pipes 

Gym prefers Minnesota pipes.  Gym prefers making noise with track spin. 

9 hours ago, Doug said:

 

Gym knows exactly how much that is.  86 five gallon buckets of gravel. 

 

 

Gym is happy to be back visiting.  Gym looks forward to stopping back after the 2024 Polaris unveiling.  Gym is hoping for a 9R XCR with a 1.75 Backcountry X and tiny snow mudflap.  Gym hopes he can sucker his brother into purchasing his current 9R after his new sled arrives.  Gym will be monitoring his favorite Polaris YouTube channel on his Commodore 64 for all the latest goodness coming from Polaris.  Gym's wife taught him how to provide a link.  Gym suggests clicking this https://youtu.be/TOIzFJBdgh4

 

 

[Guest]

Record breaking post 

[ZR6000RR]

6 minutes ago, HSR said:

Record breaking post 

What a fucked up individual. Cant rap for shit. Maybe call child protective services? In case this mutant pro created. Would have to be by rape. Not one woman could be that stupid.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ZR6000RR said:

What a fucked up individual. Cant rap for shit. Maybe call child protective services? In case this mutant pro created. Would have to be by rape. Not one woman could be that stupid.

Oh the irony🤣

[krom]

2 hours ago, Not greg b said:

I wonder how many parts they were able to knock out of the hood? They had a lot of crap in the gen 1 pc hood. The gen 2 hood I never had to dismantle 

Per update powerpoint, intake system (from outside of hood, to throttle bodies) drops from 12 on the G2 pieces to 7 on the Catalyst.

129" skid doesn't have torque links, or coupling blocks fwiw

Edited February 28, 2023 by krom