2024 Sleds... what's coming

[jdsky]

5 minutes ago, p51mstg said:

Okay, so I think we have settled on bng for Yamaha.  Maybe Cat should hire the 3 last Yamaha snow employees and give them visas to work in TRF.  That would ensure Cat gets better graphics next year.

And I found something else we can argue about:

Why Launch Control on production snowmobiles?  I can’t see any practical application for it.  Ski Doo is putting this on their fastest sled, not an actual race sled.  Other than leaving trenches all over groomed trails, it’s a novelty, imo.  I don’t get it, why did they spend time and money on this?

Entirely just to piss off cat fanciers on internet forums.  Next season it will be available on a thunderchicken and then it will not only be the best thing to have on a sled but we can find out that cat really invented it and everyone else copied them.

[stinkipinki]

4 hours ago, awful knawful said:

Wrong

 

[awful knawful]

14 minutes ago, stinkipinki said:

 

The BMW S70/2 engine, largely unrelated to the M70 and S70B56 engines, is a naturally-aspirated, DOHC, V12 petrol engine, which powered the 1993 to 1998 McLaren F1.

BMW haven't been in F1 since 2009.

F1 are running 1.6L turbo V6 hybrids

😂

 

[Deephaven]

16 minutes ago, stinkipinki said:

 

The F1 was last made in 1998...

[Steve753]

1 minute ago, awful knawful said:

The BMW S70/2 engine, largely unrelated to the M70 and S70B56 engines, is a naturally-aspirated, DOHC, V12 petrol engine, which powered the 1993 to 1998 McLaren F1.

BMW haven't been in F1 since 2009.

F1 are running 1.6L turbo V6 hybrids

😂

 

Mercedes engine in the race car.

[awful knawful]

Just now, Steve753 said:

Mercedes engine in the race car.

Yes Merc is powering McLaren.

Honda tried, but it was a shit show.

[krom]

1 hour ago, p51mstg said:

Okay, so I think we have settled on bng for Yamaha.  Maybe Cat should hire the 3 last Yamaha snow employees and give them visas to work in TRF.  That would ensure Cat gets better graphics next year.

And I found something else we can argue about:

Why Launch Control on production snowmobiles?  I can’t see any practical application for it.  Ski Doo is putting this on their fastest sled, not an actual race sled.  Other than leaving trenches all over groomed trails, it’s a novelty, imo.  I don’t get it, why did they spend time and money on this?

its cheap and easy software

[krom]

18 minutes ago, awful knawful said:

Yes Merc is powering McLaren.

Honda tried, but it was a shit show.

and ever since McLaren switched from honda to merc, honda has been one of the best PU, and merc has dropped to mid field

[mnstang]

Launch control on a sled is for the drag racers.  Not everyone just rides 100% groomed trail like trail riders seem to think 

[awful knawful]

31 minutes ago, krom said:

and ever since McLaren switched from honda to merc, honda has been one of the best PU, and merc has dropped to mid field

Honda is no more. It's a Red Bull run engine shop with little input from Honda.

[krom]

1 hour ago, awful knawful said:

Honda is no more. It's a Red Bull run engine shop with little input from Honda.

you guys never learn...  when was the last time I was wrong??

 

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breaking-honda-and-red-bull-extend-power-unit-support-deal-until-2025.7hFIkY4W18FcmxNlWnB2ST.html

Honda and Red Bull extend power unit support deal until 2025

02 August 2022

Honda withdrew from Formula 1 at the end of 2021, having powered Red Bull’s Max Verstappen to his maiden Formula 1 World Championship. Red Bull Powertrains – a new company set up by the Austrian outfit – then took over the Honda engine IP, but with help from the Japanese company under a support agreement. They are currently leading both championships with Red Bull, while the power units also power the AlphaTauri team.

The technical partnership with Honda was initially only to last until the end of 2023 but will now run until the end of 2025, when a brand-new set of power unit regulations are set to come into play.

Edited March 9, 2023 by krom

[p51mstg]

1 hour ago, mnstang said:

Launch control on a sled is for the drag racers.  Not everyone just rides 100% groomed trail like trail riders seem to think 

I get that it's for drag racers, but that's a small percentage of buyers and I don't see a purpose beyond that.  Seems like a novelty that will be abused by anyone who buys it.

If they're after the Cat/Yamaha title of fastest production snowmobile, they have to be really close with the turbo 2s.  Is launch control cheaper than another few psi of boost (and the requisite R&D to make sure the engine can handle it)?  Or, are they already at the limit of what they think their engine can handle, boost-wise and this is the only way to beat Yamaha's turbo?

 

[Deephaven]

2 minutes ago, p51mstg said:

I get that it's for drag racers, but that's a small percentage of buyers and I don't see a purpose beyond that.  Seems like a novelty that will be abused by anyone who buys it.

If they're after the Cat/Yamaha title of fastest production snowmobile, they have to be really close with the turbo 2s.  Is launch control cheaper than another few psi of boost (and the requisite R&D to make sure the engine can handle it)?  Or, are they already at the limit of what they think their engine can handle, boost-wise and this is the only way to beat Yamaha's turbo?

 

Launch control is fun.  Super glad my car has it and I don't drag race.

[Not greg b]

2 minutes ago, p51mstg said:

I get that it's for drag racers, but that's a small percentage of buyers and I don't see a purpose beyond that.  Seems like a novelty that will be abused by anyone who buys it.

If they're after the Cat/Yamaha title of fastest production snowmobile, they have to be really close with the turbo 2s.  Is launch control cheaper than another few psi of boost (and the requisite R&D to make sure the engine can handle it)?  Or, are they already at the limit of what they think their engine can handle, boost-wise and this is the only way to beat Yamaha's turbo?

 

At sea level they are at the limit of what their system can reliably put out. If there was a ton left in it, skidoo wouldn’t be spraying it with meth. Those 2 stroke turbos aren’t going to touch a thunder cat stock for stock

[J. Jackson]

3 hours ago, p51mstg said:

Okay, so I think we have settled on bng for Yamaha.  Maybe Cat should hire the 3 last Yamaha snow employees and give them visas to work in TRF.  That would ensure Cat gets better graphics next year.

And I found something else we can argue about:

Why Launch Control on production snowmobiles?  I can’t see any practical application for it.  Ski Doo is putting this on their fastest sled, not an actual race sled.  Other than leaving trenches all over groomed trails, it’s a novelty, imo.  I don’t get it, why did they spend time and money on this?

Because us snowmobilers are kinda gullible when it comes to new gadgets and have to have them. We get sucked in basically. 

[Not greg b]

15 minutes ago, J. Jackson said:

Because us snowmobilers are kinda gullible when it comes to new gadgets and have to have them. We get sucked in basically. 

100%. That’s what is driving Polaris and skidoo sales. Cat finally changes the sled after a decade and people are chomping at the bits to get one 

[Ziemann]

38 minutes ago, J. Jackson said:

Because us snowmobilers are kinda gullible when it comes to new gadgets and have to have them. We get sucked in basically. 

Catalyst is a perfect example. It's a "Me too" sled and brings to the table the same things that the other manufacturers have already perfected. 

 

22 minutes ago, Not greg b said:

Cat finally changes the sled after a decade and people are chomping at the bits to get one 

People? You mean just the cat customers. Catalyst offers nothing exclusive or innovative to bring over a Ski-Doo or Polaris customer. Cat's sales will increase, but the marketshare ultimately will not unless they are able to offer something that appeals to Polaris or Ski-Doo customers. 

The Catalyst held my attention briefly, but when I look at it objectively (without green glasses on), it's appeal is limited. I used to ALWAYS buy the latest/greatest from Cat. I was kicked in the nuts more times than I can count.....half baked....poorly polished.....flawed in so many ways. 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Ziemann

[ZR6000RR]

3 minutes ago, Ziemann said:

Catalyst is a perfect example. It's a "Me too" sled and brings to the table the same things that the other manufacturers have already perfected. 

 

People? You mean just the cat customers. Catalyst offers nothing exclusive or innovative to bring over a Ski-Doo or Polaris customer. Cat's sales will increase, but the marketshare ultimately will not unless they are able to offer something that appeals to Polaris or Ski-Doo customers. 

The Catalyst held my attention briefly, but when I look at it objectively (without green glasses on), it's appeal is limited. I used to ALWAYS buy the latest/greatest from Cat. I was kicked in the nuts more times than I can count.....half baked....poorly polished.....flawed in so many ways. 

 

Well have you ridden it? I rode it back to back with a 650 Poo. The Cat did everything better.

 

Me to my ass!

Edited March 9, 2023 by ZR6000RR

[Ziemann]

Just now, ZR6000RR said:

Well have you ridden it? I rode it back to back with a 650 Poo. The Cat did everything better.

You're about as believable as Putin. 

No one is going to take your word as gospel. 

Define "everything"....

[ZR6000RR]

2 minutes ago, Ziemann said:

You're about as believable as Putin. 

No one is going to take your word as gospel. 

Define "everything"....

Ride. Handling. Quietness. Looks. Weight. Engine run quality. Acceleration. Anything else you want to know?

[Ziemann]

Like I said- no one on planet earth would take your word at face value. You've undermined your own credibility for years.

Cat has never done a new product launch without screwing it up. I'm sorry- but your green bias combined with you riding test mules on a closed course tuned by factory folks isn't going to lend itself to an impartial side by side test. 

Unlike you, I actually have some experience in that arena. In the past, the test mules that I rode even in product testing, were not indicative of the sleds that finally hit production. 

[p51mstg]

29 minutes ago, Not greg b said:

100%. That’s what is driving Polaris and skidoo sales. Cat finally changes the sled after a decade and people are chomping at the bits to get one 

Since Ski Doo is top dog, I think that's who Arctic Cat needs to put in their sights.  If they can "out-Ski Doo" Ski Doo, they stand a chance.  Someone needs to like sit in a room with a 2024 Ski Doo, take some acid and meditate about why people buy so many of them.

Is it simply because there are so many of them that perpetuates more sales?  Is it the dealer network?  Is it the ride quality?  I think Polaris has them beat in many ways, but Doo sells more.  Why?  Cat needs a Steve Jobs, Elon Musk or Peter Thiel character to figure it out.  They won't have one of those, as long as they're controlled by Textron, but I think that's what they ultimately need.  And, acid.

[stinkipinki]

21 minutes ago, Ziemann said:

Catalyst is a perfect example. It's a "Me too" sled and brings to the table the same things;Catalyst offers nothing exclusive or innovative to bring over a Ski-Doo or Polaris customer. Cat's sales will increase, but the marketshare ultimately will not unless they are able to offer something that appeals to Polaris or ski doo customers

 

The exclusive friction less belt drive, attach system and progressive steering make the competitors outdated. The sled has sold out preorders, seems to look pretty "appealing" so far. Its also doing VERY well in its first few races. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by stinkipinki

[Ziemann]

How many guys are going to walk in to a dealer and buy because of those features?

Ride, handling, price, fit/finish, seating position, available options, reliability.....are what the average rider is looking for. No Polaris or Ski-Doo customer is going to switch brands and gain Cat marketshare because the Catalyst has belt drive or progressive steering. 

Again- Catalyst will appeal to cat customers. Sales will be up, but marketshare will remain unchanged.... It's a "Me too" sled with nothing innovative to bring back old Cat customers that they have been hemorrhaging for years....

[Ziemann]

BTW- my '17 Roger Skime was by far the most incredibly polished and refined sled out of the crate that I've ever owned. It took Cat a really long time to get there. It will be the same for the Catalyst.