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2024 Sleds... what's coming


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37 minutes ago, p51mstg said:

I like our General and Sportsman a lot, but I haven't seen them try to reproduce.  I have no illusions - they will try - but I haven't seen them actually "do it".  The Ride Command on our General is awesome - we've found all kinds of little unmarked publicly accessible trails, forestry roads and goat paths and that screen has paid for itself.  The 7s is cool, and I was drooling over it at Hay Days this year, but I'm not sure if I'd use it as much on a snowmobile.  Maybe I would, because I do wish I knew where I was half the time.

Back to snowmobiles, I forgot to mention one thing that really impressed me about the Polaris reveal - a guaranteed delivery date.  Polaris read their customers' minds, and that's really good to see.  I also liked that they're getting back to snow check exclusive models and features - giving customers a reason to spend MSRP.  

I really, really like that.  Not only does it signal a return to pre-Covid days, as far as selection, buyer leverage and better choices, but it also showed me that Polaris was tuned in.

A bit deceiving. Says a guaranteed shipment date not delivery. Clever tho. Could be in a yard of a sub contracting trucking co. for a month 1 mile from the factory and they'd be off the hook.

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1 hour ago, jdsky said:

So, they have the bestest sleds out there for decades but can't lead the market because they are just too small or too stupid to make money in other product categories?  Absofuckinglutely ridiculous.  They have zero excuse of being small when owned by a company that has all the necessary resources and should be able to overcome outside forces like supply chain and manufacturing if that is all that is needed to propel them to the top.  Textron has owned them for 6 years now. 

The only excuse at this point is that cat was in such a fucking bad place product wise that it is now going to take decades to overcome all of the issues and that's only if textron has the patience for it.  The fans excuses are just endless and completely detached from the reality of the situation.  Cat, like many companies that at one time had innovation engrained in their DNA, thought their fans would never leave no matter how inferior and irrelevant their products became.  

There is zero reason the catalyst, or something extremely close to it, did not exist at a minimum 5 or more years ago and it really should have existed at a time when a suzuki engine was powering it.  Cat just did not want to bend and pay a royalty like poo did and poo is so much further ahead now that they did.  That had zero to do with how many ATVs and SxS's poo sells every year. 

I think you’re beginning to become (maybe already were I haven’t paid attention) just as dumb as Jim.
 

I never said they’ve had the best sleds for decades I said they hung their hat on a performance niche in the industry. That in turn kept them from diversifying from their main product line, which is a dying market.
 

BRP was always going to be big, polaris made themselves big by diversifying their product lines, with good product, at the right time. That diversity and growing of the company that polaris did put them in a situation where they have/had a lot of capital to pump into the snow division and it shows. The lack of diversity and staying a small company prevented cat from expanding and eventually put them out of business and into the hands of a major penny pinching corporation that’s only going to invest more once they know it’s going to make them money.

 

There’s not one single excuse for cat in there, they did it to themselves, it’s just the facts of the situation at hand and literally pointing the finger at Cat for how fucked up of a company they are/were. If textron didn’t have to bail out cat and sort out all of their bullshit in the process the catalyst or something else would’ve been out a lot sooner.

 

Cat had motors, chassis, snow bikes and I’m sure a bunch of other shit in development and “ready” to release before textron. They had the shit ready to go, they didn’t have the money to make it go. If you look back to my diversity portion you may find a direct correlation to why that is (or maybe not you don’t seem that smart).

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1 hour ago, Deephaven said:

That was their niche.  Now they don't have that and ignoring what else you need to do to become a market challenger.  No hope unless they do something very different.  Being the most unproven and highest priced is the dumbest of all market positions.  No way that will work.

Exactly my point on the bold. I think their best chance is to roll out the catalyst over the next few years with changes and improvements and some bold new innovations/technologies that people want, not just feeding their niche. I guess we’ll see what textron is willing to do.

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7 minutes ago, Palu49 said:

I think you’re beginning to become (maybe already were I haven’t paid attention) just as dumb as Jim.
 

I never said they’ve had the best sleds for decades I said they hung their hat on a performance niche in the industry. That in turn kept them from diversifying from their main product line, which is a dying market.
 

BRP was always going to be big, polaris made themselves big by diversifying their product lines, with good product, at the right time. That diversity and growing of the company that polaris did put them in a situation where they have/had a lot of capital to pump into the snow division and it shows. The lack of diversity and staying a small company prevented cat from expanding and eventually put them out of business and into the hands of a major penny pinching corporation that’s only going to invest more once they know it’s going to make them money.

 

There’s not one single excuse for cat in there, they did it to themselves, it’s just the facts of the situation at hand and literally pointing the finger at Cat for how fucked up of a company they are/were. If textron didn’t have to bail out cat and sort out all of their bullshit in the process the catalyst or something else would’ve been out a lot sooner.

 

Cat had motors, chassis, snow bikes and I’m sure a bunch of other shit in development and “ready” to release before textron. They had the shit ready to go, they didn’t have the money to make it go. If you look back to my diversity portion you may find a direct correlation to why that is (or maybe not you don’t seem that smart).

Diversity of product is the worst excuse ever and Cat has not been failing because the market does not like "performance oriented" sleds.  It's because their shitty products were inferior from top to bottom and in so many ways that few would spend their hard earned money on them shortly after the year 2000.  Fucking business 101 but cat diehards have found a million creative ways to make it sound like cat is still the leader or could have been a leader if just - enter excuse here.

If as you say they had all of this awesome and innovative product just waiting to go and all they needed was a few bucks there is zero fucking evidence of that based on what has happened over the past six years.  Textron knows jack shit about the sled market but they do know enough about business to turn a profit and if spending some of it was going to immediately launch the cat brand into being a market leader they would have written that check a few micro-seconds after taking over.

BRP is not the overall leader in sales because they have money or the backing of canada or diversity of product lines.  It's because more people write checks for their sleds and proof of that is readily available in every public shareholders report.  Poo is profitable in the sled market for the same exact fucking reasons.  More people write checks for their sleds than arctic cat and yamaha combined and because they are also smart enough to understand what the market wants and then proceed to design and market products to meet that demand.

Maybe you have no basic understanding of business and how delivering products that people want to buy provides the money to continue to build even more products that customers want to buy.  Maybe cat had the catalyst in 2010 and was just too fucking stupid or poor to bring it to market.  Maybe they actually had an 850 long before Doo and Poo had one, they were just too fucked up as a company internally to bring it to market. Because you know, they were so focused on performance that they instead delivered the shittiest performing 800 in recent history of modern 800 engines. 

At this point whatever fantastic sledding innovation it is that they are sitting on would not only be an indicator that there are plenty of idiots still steering the ship but also that non of that unleashed innovation means jack shit to anyone ordering a sled for 2024.     

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11 minutes ago, jdsky said:

Diversity of product is the worst excuse ever and Cat has not been failing because the market does not like "performance oriented" sleds.  It's because their shitty products were inferior from top to bottom and in so many ways that few would spend their hard earned money on them shortly after the year 2000.  Fucking business 101 but cat diehards have found a million creative ways to make it sound like cat is still the leader or could have been a leader if just - enter excuse here.

If as you say they had all of this awesome and innovative product just waiting to go and all they needed was a few bucks there is zero fucking evidence of that based on what has happened over the past six years.  Textron knows jack shit about the sled market but they do know enough about business to turn a profit and if spending some of it was going to immediately launch the cat brand into being a market leader they would have written that check a few micro-seconds after taking over.

BRP is not the overall leader in sales because they have money or the backing of canada or diversity of product lines.  It's because more people write checks for their sleds and proof of that is readily available in every public shareholders report.  Poo is profitable in the sled market for the same exact fucking reasons.  More people write checks for their sleds than arctic cat and yamaha combined and because they are also smart enough to understand what the market wants and then proceed to design and market products to meet that demand.

Maybe you have no basic understanding of business and how delivering products that people want to buy provides the money to continue to build even more products that customers want to buy.  Maybe cat had the catalyst in 2010 and was just too fucking stupid or poor to bring it to market.  Maybe they actually had an 850 long before Doo and Poo had one, they were just too fucked up as a company internally to bring it to market. Because you know, they were so focused on performance that they instead delivered the shittiest performing 800 in recent history of modern 800 engines. 

At this point whatever fantastic sledding innovation it is that they are sitting on would not only be an indicator that there are plenty of idiots still steering the ship but also that non of that unleashed innovation means jack shit to anyone ordering a sled for 2024.     

Bro you need a beer and some weed.

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1 minute ago, stinkipinki said:

Bro you need a beer and some weed.

I think he is ill. No one can be this angry at life without something being internally wrong with them. Terrets maybe?

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2 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

I think he is ill. No one can be this angry at life without something being internally wrong with them. Terrets maybe?

you were that angry after sasquatch got you in the woods in a good ol norman county stump hump. 

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8 minutes ago, jdsky said:

Diversity of product is the worst excuse ever and Cat has not been failing because the market does not like "performance oriented" sleds.  It's because their shitty products were inferior from top to bottom and in so many ways that few would spend their hard earned money on them shortly after the year 2000.

If as you say they had all of this awesome and innovative product just waiting to go and all they needed was a few bucks there is zero fucking evidence of that based on what has happened over the past six years.  Textron knows jack shit about the sled market but they do know enough about business to turn a profit and if spending some of it was going to immediately launch the cat brand into being a market leader they would have written that check a few micro-seconds after taking over.

BRP is not the overall leader in sales because they have money or the backing of canada or diversity of product lines.  It's because more people write checks for their sleds and proof of that is readily available in every public shareholders report.  Poo is profitable in the sled market for the same exact fucking reasons.  More people write checks for their sleds than arctic cat and yamaha combined and because they are also smart enough to understand what the market wants and then proceed to design and market products to meet that demand.

Maybe you have no basic understanding of business and how delivering products that people want to buy provides the money to continue to build even more products that customers want to buy.       

The blast is evidence of it as it’s a stop loss for the r&d of the 400 single for the snow bike…..

Everyone knows cat was testing their home built 850 and 900 before the ctec came out, released the ctec 800 when Doo released the 850, you don’t think they had every intention of a bigger motor at least on time with polaris? They went out of business at about that exact same time.

 

Maybe you have no basic understanding of business if you think textron would ever come in on a fledgling company and throw a fuck ton of money at them before they show they can turn a profit.

 

If you think Cat not having a real presence in 4 seasons worth of markets affects their snow division and company as a whole compared to the other 2 players you’re even dumber than you come across as on the Internet.

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1 hour ago, stinkipinki said:

Update: Rumors online Cat has sold out of pre-orders

Screenshot_20230307-131420_Facebook.jpg

roughly 10 min after they got the website up and running all catalyst trail sleds set aside for online ordering sold out

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2 minutes ago, krom said:

roughly 10 min after they got the website up and running all catalyst trail sleds set aside for online ordering sold out

Hopefully they can find people to work on the line this year, that’s one of their biggest struggles.

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4 minutes ago, Palu49 said:

The blast is evidence of it as it’s a stop loss for the r&d of the 400 single for the snow bike…..

Everyone knows cat was testing their home built 850 and 900 before the ctec came out, released the ctec 800 when Doo released the 850, you don’t think they had every intention of a bigger motor at least on time with polaris? They went out of business at about that exact same time.

 

Maybe you have no basic understanding of business if you think textron would ever come in on a fledgling company and throw a fuck ton of money at them before they show they can turn a profit.

 

If you think Cat not having a real presence in 4 seasons worth of markets affects their snow division and company as a whole compared to the other 2 players you’re even dumber than you come across as on the Internet.

The blast is more evidence of releasing shit that buyers in the market could care less about.  It is also the most cheap looking piece of garbage to ever hit dealer showrooms in a really long time.  Evidence that cats innovation is still nonexistent and yes that first to market 850 that you say "everyone knows about" is still not in the market for 2024 and who knows when it will finally be available for fans to beta test like that shitty 800 was when it was throwing flames everywhere they went. 

 

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22 minutes ago, jdsky said:

The blast is more evidence of releasing shit that buyers in the market could care less about.  It is also the most cheap looking piece of garbage to ever hit dealer showrooms in a really long time.  Evidence that cats innovation is still nonexistent and yes that first to market 850 that you say "everyone knows about" is still not in the market for 2024 and who knows when it will finally be available for fans to beta test like that shitty 800 was when it was throwing flames everywhere they went. 

 

Cats success with this platform has got you super pissed off, and its awesome!

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1 minute ago, stinkipinki said:

Cats success with this platform has got you super pissed off, and its awesome!

Anger management at it's best! Maybe his heart will explode when he realizes that the Blast is the only sled he could afford.

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The best part is I'm not mad but am a little ticked off that all I can afford is a shitty blast.  Hopefully once I am finally successful enough and able to afford one I can join the rally cry of all the other performance oriented niche market cat buyers.

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1 hour ago, krom said:

roughly 10 min after they got the website up and running all catalyst trail sleds set aside for online ordering sold out

Yep I went to put money down at 10am and they were sold out.  

Looks like for catalysts they still had one version of the ZR and one version of the 154 M and that was it

 

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7 minutes ago, mnstang said:

Yep I went to put money down at 10am and they were sold out.  

Looks like for catalysts they still had one version of the ZR and one version of the 154 M and that was it

 

that's a good sign for the future...

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1 hour ago, jdsky said:

The blast is more evidence of releasing shit that buyers in the market could care less about.  It is also the most cheap looking piece of garbage to ever hit dealer showrooms in a really long time.  Evidence that cats innovation is still nonexistent and yes that first to market 850 that you say "everyone knows about" is still not in the market for 2024 and who knows when it will finally be available for fans to beta test like that shitty 800 was when it was throwing flames everywhere they went. 

 

The blast was literally “designed” to not waste the r&d money from the snow bike motor numb nuts. You’re completely ignoring my original statement that cat put themselves in the financial position to get where they are now, I’m not saying they’re releasing a bunch of stuff tomorrow and I’m not saying they’re the niche performance snowmobile company they used to be. I’m saying that’s what they were and that’s what got them here.

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14 minutes ago, Palu49 said:

The blast was literally “designed” to not waste the r&d money from the snow bike motor numb nuts. You’re completely ignoring my original statement that cat put themselves in the financial position to get where they are now, I’m not saying they’re releasing a bunch of stuff tomorrow and I’m not saying they’re the niche performance snowmobile company they used to be. I’m saying that’s what they were and that’s what got them here.

And it's still what they are until they actually ship something relevant which they have not.  

Bring on the marching band, cat sold out of spring orders!  This is huge news for cat.  Two dealers I work with sold out of spring orders last season.  They will be selling out again.  It's called limited supply. 

How many catalysts did each dealer even get to take orders for?  Anyone actually know?  My dealer tried to order 150 more sleds than he could get his hands on last year.  That might be the total number of catalysts getting built for 24'.  

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