2024 Sleds... what's coming

[Boonbocker1]

7 minutes ago, stinkipinki said:

The friction less belt drive and progressive steering make the competitors looked outdated. The sled has sold out preorders, its seems to look pretty "appealing so far". Its also doing VERY well in its first few races. 

Could you describe what car did differently with the belt drive vs polaris that makes it ground breaking?   

Could you describe the progressive steering  system?  What is with this system thats ground breaking over competitor designs?

 

If you can't answer those questions then, to me, it appears you are just regurgitating cats marketing dept.   

[ZR6000RR]

1 minute ago, Ziemann said:

How many guys are going to walk in to a dealer and buy because of those features?

Ride, handling, price, fit/finish, seating position, available options, reliability.....are what the average rider is looking for. No Polaris or Ski-Doo customer is going to switch brands and gain Cat marketshare because the Catalyst has belt drive or progressive steering. 

Again- Catalyst will appeal to cat customers. Sales will be up, but marketshare will remain unchanged.... It's a "Me too" sled with nothing innovative to bring back old Cat customers that they have been hemorrhaging for years....

I forgot to add that I wont have to buy stock in NGK. My those Polaris love to eat those plugs. Me to my ASS! I know of two Polaris riders that made the switch btw. Just a better sled all the way around.

[ZR6000RR]

1 minute ago, Boonbocker1 said:

Could you describe what car did differently with the belt drive vs polaris that makes it ground breaking?   

Could you describe the progressive steering  system?  What is with this system thats ground breaking over competitor designs?

 

If you can't answer those questions then, to me, it appears you are just regurgitating cats marketing dept.   

On the Belt drive, they made it available to trail sleds and made it quiet. Steering is like having Power Steering without the cost. 

[Boonbocker1]

2 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

On the Belt drive, they made it available to trail sleds and made it quiet. Steering is like having Power Steering without the cost. 

Ok.  What specifically is engineered differently?  Both systems uses 2 sprockets and a belt?  Does cat use a tensioner?

Is the steering system just a rack style steering simiiar to polaris?   Is there something with the system new and unique?  Or is it just marketing verbage cat uses to compare it against procross sleds?

[ZR6000RR]

7 minutes ago, Ziemann said:

BTW- my '17 Roger Skime was by far the most incredibly polished and refined sled out of the crate that I've ever owned. It took Cat a really long time to get there. It will be the same for the Catalyst. 

Even in pre-production form, it surpassed that wonderful sled. Sorry but the Catalyst is a game changer. 

[ZR6000RR]

1 minute ago, Boonbocker1 said:

Ok.  What specifically is engineered differently?  Both systems uses 2 sprockets and a belt?  Does cat use a tensioner?

Is the steering system just a rack style steering simiiar to polaris?   Is there something with the system new and unique?  Or is it just marketing verbage cat uses to compare it against procross sleds?

 

No tensioner. eccentric bearing allowing gear changes which Polaris does not yet have. Steering is right out of the sno cross sled. 

[p51mstg]

11 minutes ago, Ziemann said:

BTW- my '17 Roger Skime was by far the most incredibly polished and refined sled out of the crate that I've ever owned. It took Cat a really long time to get there. It will be the same for the Catalyst. 

Right now, Cat won't change any minds, because nobody has been able to compare it to anything other than the ProCross lumber wagons.  If they could find OBJECTIVE riders, who could - and would - switch brands for a superior sled, that's who should be putting miles on them next season.

It's easy to dismiss it if nobody has ridden it.  It's also hard to find people objective enough to evaluate it.  Those who already don't like it, will spend a lot of energy defending their position instead of allowing themselves to change their mind.  Those who are already sure it's better will always be convinced and will not admit if they're wrong.

Social media, mainstream media and politicians have created a society where nobody can change their minds about anything.  Those who still can are the ones who need to be riding the production Catalyst, and then share their opinions to settle this.

[jdsky]

20 minutes ago, Ziemann said:

How many guys are going to walk in to a dealer and buy because of those features?

Ride, handling, price, fit/finish, seating position, available options, reliability.....are what the average rider is looking for. No Polaris or Ski-Doo customer is going to switch brands and gain Cat marketshare because the Catalyst has belt drive or progressive steering. 

Again- Catalyst will appeal to cat customers. Sales will be up, but marketshare will remain unchanged.... It's a "Me too" sled with nothing innovative to bring back old Cat customers that they have been hemorrhaging for years....

Spot on.  The catalyst could have been anything and spring orders would have sold out in minutes.  Finally after so many years it just needed to be new and different so that all of the fans still riding old shit would finally get excited to buy a new sled.  Extremely limited supply just added to the illusion that this must be a game changer for sure Ole.  

What will be far more important to their business is what happens with the spring releases in 5 or 10 years from now.

[Deephaven]

34 minutes ago, stinkipinki said:

The exclusive friction less belt drive, attach system and progressive steering make the competitors outdated. The sled has sold out preorders, seems to look pretty "appealing" so far. Its also doing VERY well in its first few races. 

Whoop de Doo.  Nothing that makes those riding the competition jump.  In fact they will instead be scared of it's reliability 

23 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

I forgot to add that I wont have to buy stock in NGK. My those Polaris love to eat those plugs. Me to my ASS! I know of two Polaris riders that made the switch btw. Just a better sled all the way around.

You friends obviously ride as slow as you and are choking shit up.  Haven't needed a plug on a stock Polaris since the Edge days

16 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

Even in pre-production form, it surpassed that wonderful sled. Sorry but the Catalyst is a game changer. 

It didn't surpass shit.  Everything it does you claim you hated last year.  Fucking hilarious to watch you flip

[Ziemann]

12 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

Even in pre-production form, it surpassed that wonderful sled. Sorry but the Catalyst is a game changer. 

Of course- the RS about as polished as a sled could possibly get in the Procross chassis. The Catalyst has to be a step forward for Cat even to be competitive. 

Like I said- I'm a Cat guy and have more Cats in my garage than you do. But, when I look at it objectively, the catalyst does not have anything to sway me back from Polaris. Regardless of what you say, my Matryx has been great, and I have no regrets about the change. 

Jim- you have no credibility. You can't be objective, and have zero experience other than being a keyboard jocky. 

[jdsky]

4 minutes ago, p51mstg said:

Those who still can are the ones who need to be riding the production Catalyst, and then share their opinions to settle this.

This is exactly what poo did with the launch of their chassis.  They quickly got it in the hands of riders from other brands that could sing the praises of poo engineering.  It worked, because they have sold a shit load of sleds not only to diehard poo fans but also the cat and doo riders.

[ZR6000RR]

3 minutes ago, Ziemann said:

Of course- the RS about as polished as a sled could possibly get in the Procross chassis. The Catalyst has to be a step forward for Cat even to be competitive. 

Like I said- I'm a Cat guy and have more Cats in my garage than you do. But, when I look at it objectively, the catalyst does not have anything to sway me back from Polaris. Regardless of what you say, my Matryx has been great, and I have no regrets about the change. 

Jim- you have no credibility. You can't be objective, and have zero experience other than being a keyboard jocky. 

I have ridden it. You have not. Objective is not even in your vocabulary. 

[Ziemann]

Just now, ZR6000RR said:

I have ridden it. You have not. Objective is not even in your vocabulary. 

Please tell us about how objective you are. Waiting.....

[jdsky]

1 minute ago, ZR6000RR said:

I have ridden it. You have not. Objective is not even in your vocabulary. 

At least you got one thing right in this post.  You did ride it and it was the worst fucking thing cat could have ever have done to promote their new chassis.

[ZR6000RR]

Just now, Ziemann said:

Please tell us about how objective you are. Waiting.....

I just did. I rode it. So did other brand owners. Two Poo guys ordered. 

[ZR6000RR]

Just now, jdsky said:

At least you got one thing right in this post.  You did ride it and it was the worst fucking thing cat could have ever have done to promote their new chassis.

Must not have been. Sold out in less than an hour. Your a fucking idiot btw. You know jack shit about me, but you sure like to shadow me. 

[Boonbocker1]

25 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

 

No tensioner. eccentric bearing allowing gear changes which Polaris does not yet have. Steering is right out of the sno cross sled. 

Nothing you described here describes how any of those are revolutionary over polaris.   There are some differences but its sorta like they took someone else's design as a starting g point then modified it to their specific needs.  This is nothing new or earth shattering  in any industry.  So they've done what others have done and put their spin on it.

[ZR6000RR]

1 minute ago, Boonbocker1 said:

Nothing you described here describes how any of those are revolutionary over polaris.   There are some differences but its sorta like they took someone else's design as a starting g point then modified it to their specific needs.  This is nothing new or earth shattering  in any industry.  So they've done what others have done and put their spin on it.

Well, it is a snowmobile so there will be similar things. Cat just took it a step further. 

[Boonbocker1]

5 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

I just did. I rode it. So did other brand owners. Two Poo guys ordered. 

Jim, whats your market share predictions for year 1, 2 and 3 of the catalyst?  You tout how many riders are switching.  I want to hear what you're expectations are as far as converting  poo and doo riders

[Ziemann]

Just now, ZR6000RR said:

I just did. I rode it. So did other brand owners. Two Poo guys ordered. 

Sure they did. Because of the belt drive? Or the steering?

You're not objective at all. As previously stated, a couple of obscure test rides didn't do much to create competitive buzz. Catalyst is a "Me too" desperate attempt to keep Cat from hemorrhaging additional customers.  

Cat's reputation for horrible new platform releases will hobble it's success for a few years. Eventually, when it is old news, they will get it polished and refined. 

[ZR6000RR]

1 minute ago, Boonbocker1 said:

Jim, whats your market share predictions for year 1, 2 and 3 of the catalyst?  You tout how many riders are switching.  I want to hear what you're expectations are as far as converting  poo and doo riders

No idea. I don't care what you ride. Make up your own mind. 

[ZR6000RR]

2 minutes ago, Ziemann said:

Sure they did. Because of the belt drive? Or the steering?

You're not objective at all. As previously stated, a couple of obscure test rides didn't do much to create competitive buzz. Catalyst is a "Me too" desperate attempt to keep Cat from hemorrhaging additional customers.  

Cat's reputation for horrible new platform releases will hobble it's success for a few years. Eventually, when it is old news, they will get it polished and refined. 

 

Even in Pre Production form, the fit and finish was above my 2022 and better than the Polaris by quite a bit. Nothing in the chassis to hobble it. They kind of proved that by racing it. Polaris is still trying to get out from under the recall train that seems to follow all their products. 

[p51mstg]

8 minutes ago, jdsky said:

This is exactly what poo did with the launch of their chassis.  They quickly got it in the hands of riders from other brands that could sing the praises of poo engineering.  It worked, because they have sold a shit load of sleds not only to diehard poo fans but also the cat and doo riders.

I have literally and repeatedly begged Polaris - in person - for a demo of any kind anywhere.  They have turned me down, every single time.  How do I get on their list? 

I thought it was the Polaris ambassadors who they let ride the Matryx up on the North Shore before it was introduced?  Was there another ride somewhere?

 

[ZR6000RR]

Just now, p51mstg said:

I have literally and repeatedly begged Polaris - in person - for a demo of any kind anywhere.  They have turned me down, every single time.  How do I get on their list? 

I thought it was the Polaris ambassadors who they let ride the Matryx up on the North Shore before it was introduced?  Was there another ride somewhere?

 

There wasn't. The Polaris minds are rather shallow when it comes to facts these days.

[krom]

59 minutes ago, Boonbocker1 said:

Could you describe what car did differently with the belt drive vs polaris that makes it ground breaking?   

Could you describe the progressive steering  system?  What is with this system thats ground breaking over competitor designs?

 

If you can't answer those questions then, to me, it appears you are just regurgitating cats marketing dept.   

The steering system was first used in the race sleds, uses very few moving parts, and is progressive, slower turn and more mechanical advantage near center, the further you turn, the quicker the skis move, and there is less mechanical advantage.

belt tension is done with an eccentric bearing housing (ever see trx 250r chain adjuster setup?) no idler pulley.

 

 

32 minutes ago, Deephaven said:

You friends obviously ride as slow as you and are choking shit up.  Haven't needed a plug on a stock Polaris since the Edge days

 

Here comes the bullshit again..

650 and 850 guys are having a absolute ton of plug fouling issues. 17 sets a season type problems. every poo group is full of complaints and pictures.

I can put you in contact with someone if you don't believe me

Edited March 9, 2023 by krom