*****Official*****Presidential Debate Thread

[ArcticCrusher]

4 minutes ago, Cold War said:

Kind of the way I saw it.

But listen, The new left narrative is Trump shouldn't even be given the same kind of respect as this 30 year seasoned pro.  it would be like grabbing someone off the street and putting them in the ring with the top rated boxer in the world. to have the same lack luster performance is a bigger dig on Clinton.

Lots of mis-opportunities , Like her bringing up her 11 hours in the chair as some kind of badge of honor...........He should of buried her on it.

Why was he defending his position on the Iraq war as a civilian, when she voted to send kids to die?

Why did he keep letting her portray herself as this poor middle class mom?  

 

Like Trump had any influence on that decision or access to intel unlike Hillary who likely knew it was wrong, but hey shes a politician and that was the flavour of the day at the time.

 

I think Trump did pretty good for his first debate, I thought he would have done a lot worse.  Hillary did pretty good and was let off pretty easy.  I was expecting more of a mud slinging shitshow. 

[Highmark]

My take on the debate.   Keep in mind I watched about 1/3 of it.

Trump did poorly when it came to delivery and staying on point.  I thought Lester Holt was somewhat bias but that also led to some huge opportunities for Trump to hammer points.  For example.

The very first question on economy when Holt included some "positive" economic numbers from Obama.  If anyone knows economics a few numbers do not tell the complete story of the economy.   Trump could have blasted Obama and Hillary on real unemployment.   The huge amount of people who have given up.   The workforce participation rate.  The massive increase in the numbers of people on food stamps and other govt assistance.  He should have talked about how black unemployment rate is double of the national rate.  When he did mention a statistic he would jump to 3 or 4 different numbers making it look like he couldn't remember the exact figure.  Hell half the debate could have been talking about the facts below.

I want someone from the GOP to articulate a positive message on tax cuts even for the wealthy.   Its not that hard.   Talk about how the vast majority of the wealthy are small business owners.   Talk about how them keeping more of what is earned will allow them to provide more for their employee's and to grow their companies and the economy in general.  

He didn't attack Hillary enough on her biggest weakness her truthfulness.   He should have every fucking lie she has said down and constantly work those in.   

There are two debates left and I suggest he get studying.  

Edited September 27, 2016 by Highmark

[SnowRider]

You clowns supports thin skinned pussy with no substance http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/27/opinions/debate-coach-clinton-trump-debate/index.html

 

Clinton was the better debater (Opinion) - CNN.com

Todd Graham is the director of debate at Southern Illinois University. His teams have won five national championships and advanced to the "final-four" of a national championship tournament nine consecutive years. He's been recognized three times as the national debate coach of the year. The opinions expressed in this commentary are his.

But how did the candidates stack up in pure debating terms? Let's grade them.

The pre-debate rundown was that Hillary Clinton might be deeper on substance and logic, but Donald Trump should best her on personality and humor. Therefore, those are my grading categories. 

 

Substance/logic

 

Clinton: A- 

She didn't have many stumbles. She left a few things unanswered, such as Trump's claims that she was nasty toward President Barack Obama when she was running against him in 2008. But overall Trump left her substance mostly unchallenged. 

For example, Clinton had the best rationale I've heard for why Trump won't release his tax returns. She "four-pointed" (to use a debate term) Trump.

1. Maybe he's not as rich as he says.
2. Maybe he's not as charitable as he says.
3. Maybe he owes a lot of money to banks. 
4. Maybe he paid no federal income taxes (for troops, vets and schools, she helpfully pointed out). 

Trump had no answer in the debate other than perhaps to reveal a "tell": When Clinton mentioned "the only years (of tax returns) that anybody's ever seen were a couple of years when he had to turn them over to state authorities when he was trying to get a casino license, and they showed he didn't pay any federal income tax" -- a questionable assertion, say the fact-checkers -- he interrupted her only to say "that makes me smart." 

Trump: I'm 'smart' for paying no taxes 00:51

I also liked the subtlety of some of Clinton's debate tactics. She knew Trump would argue that the Iraq War was a bad idea, and that he would blame the US withdrawal from Iraq for the rise of ISIS. So she answered this by reminding the audience that it was George W. Bush who set the timetable of the Status of Forces Agreement that would remove US troops by 2011, and that Obama couldn't renegotiate it to leave a residual force in Iraq without the approval of Iraq. And Iraq did not approve.

Trump missed this argument.

Clinton also knew Trump would rail about the Iran nuclear deal. So she asserted that before a sanctions regime she helped usher in, Iran was weeks away from developing a nuclear weapon -- which is, to say the least, a debatable sequence of events. But Trump missed this argument, too. 

And on trade deals, after a rambling speech from Trump, Clinton pointed out that "trade is not our only challenge" for the economy. Yet again, Trump failed to respond to this point.

Trump: F 

Where to begin?

In debate jargon, Trump had "claims without warrants." He offered no proof for many of his arguments and conclusions. He did this tons of times. Asserting the Fed is political and only helping the economy to make Obama look good, asserting that "stop and frisk" was why crime went down, saying that ISIS was beating us at our own game when referring to cyberwar. Just three examples of claims without warrants.

An important trait for a debater is to be "topical." In other words, debaters should address the question being asked. And I'll be honest, I tried to follow Trump's train of thought. I really did. But once a train is derailed, it's pretty tough to see all the cars. 

Donald Trump defends tax cuts for the wealthy02:14

Organizationally, he just rambled. Debate judges call this a "messy" debate. Heck, one question was about taxes and somehow Trump ended up talking about our airports being like Third World countries. Finally, at times he made little sense, using the words "nuclear" and "cyber" as if they were complete sentences.

Trump's worst moments mirrored his worst moments at his first debate of the Republican primaries. He simply appeared both racist and sexist. There's no nice way to put it, well, because it's not nice. Not at all.

 

Racist

 

When Clinton hammered him on the birther movement, his answer, instead of an apology, was to repeat that in demanding a birth certificate from the President he did a good thing and that Obama should have produced it a long time before (as if challenging our first African-American President's birthplace was somehow anything less than racist). 

And, shockingly, Trump actually made a new, even more racist argument. He actually said that "the African-American community ... really wanted me to come to that conclusion and I think I did a great job and a great service, not only for the country but even for the President in getting him to produce his birth certificate."

Was there even more racism? Why yes, thank you for asking.

5 times Donald Trump was live fact-checked02:37

Perhaps you missed Trump patting himself on the back for, essentially, not being sued for discrimination in Palm Beach when he opened a club. Congratulations, you followed state and federal discrimination laws this time. And he reminded us that though he was the target of racial discrimination lawsuits by the Justice Department, they were "settled" with no admission of guilt. Yes, that's what people usually do when they "settle." But that hardly equates with innocence.

Trump also avowed his support for stop-and-frisk policing but then lied in front of the audience about whether or not a judge had properly found it to be illegal. The practice was in fact found to be unconstitutional, specifically on the grounds that it was racist and discriminatory.

 

Sexist

 

After Clinton hit him with his previous statements about women, Trump once again didn't apologize, but instead referenced an attack at Clinton that he could have made in retaliation for her bringing up the sexism issue, but didn't because he's not that kind of guy. He repeated insults he'd aimed at actress Rosie O'Donnell, just like in the first Republican primary debate. So in other words, when accused of being sexist, Trump actually said the phrase, "She deserves it." 

More sexist? Sure, why not. Oh, and let's throw in some more racism to boot. At one point, Clinton quoted Trump calling a Latina Miss Universe "Miss Housekeeping." Clinton then smartly stated, "Her name is Alicia Machado. She's a United States citizen, and she's going to vote this November." 

 

Personality/humor/nonverbal

 

Clinton: B-

Clinton won the this battle, that's for sure. But not because she was awesome. While her steady-as-she-goes approach was successful on the nonverbal front, it probably brought down her vocal inflection, where I'd like more variety. She's still a bit stiff. 

And I understand she wants to contrast her style with Trump's, but still, c'mon. If somebody interrupted you like Trump did her, you'd never tolerate it. I coach my debaters to call out the other person. So just once, at least once, I'd like Clinton to have said, "Mr. Trump: Stop. Interrupting. Me." 

Clinton: Trump called women pigs, slobs and dogs 01:56

The stamina question. Well, it wasn't a stamina question Lester Holt posed, but as Clinton pointed out, it was a question to Trump about his comment on her "looks" that in midanswer Trump switched to an issue of "stamina." I'm putting this under personality since Trump's made such a big deal about stamina the entire campaign. 

Clinton had maybe her best answer of the night here, reminding us of the real topic (looks/sexism) and then moving to her experience of being in 112 countries, negotiating ceasefires and testifying before Congress for 11 hours. Once he's done this, she quipped, "He can talk to me about stamina."

Trump: F- 

For nonverbal communication, Trump was awful. While Clinton was speaking, Trump scowled, frowned, gave the evil eye, sniffed and sighed. And this was on the very first question. After that, it was 90 minutes of "let's interrupt the woman on the stage." It was rude and annoying, and in this case it only added to the impression that Trump was sexist. 

I've seen this too many times in debates, and the impression is lasting. Finally, there were only two of them on stage, and he still was compelled to interrupt and say "wrong ... wrong ... wrong" during her answers. He didn't care that he'd get his turn. Trump simply couldn't stand being criticized. 

 

Overall grades?

 

Clinton: B

Trump: F

 

 

Edited September 27, 2016 by SnowRider

[Cold War]

1 minute ago, Mileage Psycho said:

 

Why?

To all of your questions the obvious answer is that she was the candidate that was prepared and who has the temperament to be POTUS. Why did Trump have the sniffles and sweats last night?  

Trump in a crisis situation as POTUS will probably look something like this.

 

The inappropriate laughter is no better.

Shows a lack of self control and good judgment.

According to the left, there has never been a person on the planet more qualified for President.

Can you tell me with a straight face that is the person you saw last night? 

[Mileage Psycho]

1 minute ago, Highmark said:

My take on the debate.   Keep in mind I watched about 1/3 of it.

Trump did poorly when it came to delivery and staying on point.  I thought Lester Holt was somewhat bias but that also led to some huge opportunities for Trump to hammer points.  For example.

The very first question on economy when Holt included some "positive" economic numbers from Obama.  If anyone knows economics a few numbers do not tell the complete story of the economy.   Trump could have blasted Obama and Hillary on real unemployment.   The huge amount of people who have given up.   The workforce participation rate.  The massive increase in the numbers of people on food stamps and other govt assistance.  He should have talked about how black unemployment rate is double of the national rate.  When he did mention a statistic he would jump to 3 or 4 different numbers making it look like he couldn't remember the exact figure.

He didn't attack Hillary enough on her biggest weakness her truthfulness.   He should have every fucking lie she has said down and constantly work those in.   

There are two debates left and I suggest he get studying.  

 

Why didn't you watch the whole thing?

BTW, your vote and mine really don't count in this election seeing it's pretty much a given that Illinois is going to Clinton and Iowa is going to Trump. 

 

On the bold, good luck with that as I really don't think that Trump has picked up a book since his college days.

[Cold War]

6 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

 

Like Trump had any influence on that decision or access to intel unlike Hillary who likely knew it was wrong, but hey shes a politician and that was the flavour of the day at the time.

 

I think Trump did pretty good for his first debate, I thought he would have done a lot worse.  Hillary did pretty good and was let off pretty easy.  I was expecting more of a mud slinging shitshow. 

It was really bizarre.

I couldn't believe he was the one under fire for it.

 

[racer254]

For a person that has debated multiple times and someone that many on the left say is the most qualified for POTUS, She didn't impress anyone.  Lame talking points was all she could spew out.  Trump should have been killed last night if all these lefties were correct about hillary, but that wasn't the case as he held his own. 

[Cold War]

  This needs to be the new Trump  emo.

He really needs to knock that shit off for the next debate.

[Momorider]

20 minutes ago, Cold War said:

Kind of the way I saw it.

But listen, The new left narrative is Trump shouldn't even be given the same kind of respect as this 30 year seasoned pro.  it would be like grabbing someone off the street and putting them in the ring with the top rated boxer in the world. to have the same lack luster performance is a bigger dig on Clinton.

Lots of mis-opportunities , Like her bringing up her 11 hours in the chair as some kind of badge of honor...........He should of buried her on it.

Why was he defending his position on the Iraq war as a civilian, when she voted to send kids to die?

Why did he keep letting her portray herself as this poor middle class mom?  

He did he said her decision making and experience was bad multiple times actually   He defended his position on Iraq because Holt lied about it  

[Highmark]

Just now, Mileage Psycho said:

Why didn't you watch the whole thing?

BTW, your vote and mine really don't count in this election seeing it's pretty much a given that Illinois is going to Clinton and Iowa is going to Trump. 

 

On the bold, good luck with that as I really don't think that Trump has picked up a book since his college days.

Because honestly Vince I really can't stand either one of them.  If the dems had put up a better candidate I would be happy to not vote.  I could never vote for Johnson the man is an idiot and Stein, well I won't even go there.   However I think Hillary is so corrupt and dishonest I will continue to plug my nose and vote for Trump.  

This race is about one thing to me and one thing only.   The SC.   I am voting that Trump will put in judges that base their decisions more on how the constitution was written than what to them it has evolved to be.    

[Mainecat]

Why was Trump sniffling? Did he have a cold?

[Momorider]

25 minutes ago, Mileage Psycho said:

 

Why?

To all of your questions the obvious answer is that she was the candidate that was prepared and who has the temperament to be POTUS. Why did Trump have the sniffles and sweats last night?  

Trump in a crisis situation as POTUS will probably look something like this.

 

And Ballsack keeps spewing this proven lie  fucking hack 

 

[SnowRider]

Just now, Highmark said:

Because honestly Vince I really can't stand either one of them.  If the dems had put up a better candidate I would be happy to not vote.  I could never vote for Johnson the man is an idiot and Stein, well I won't even go there.   However I think Hillary is so corrupt and dishonest I will continue to plug my nose and vote for Trump.  

This race is about one thing to me and one thing only.   The SC.   I am voting that Trump will put in judges that base their decisions more on how the constitution was written than what to them it has evolved to be.    

And the vacancy should already be filled.  It's pathetic how your R's play politics with the court.  If justice is served - she wins amd nominates someone so liberal that Garland looks like Scalia.  Fuck the R's and their politicization of the court.  

[ckf]

What a lot of you seem to forget is that a lot of Americans are sick and tired of the seasoned politician. Coming off as Presidential may not be the best way to go at this point

[Momorider]

24 minutes ago, SnowRider said:

You clowns supports thin skinned pussy with no substance http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/27/opinions/debate-coach-clinton-trump-debate/index.html

 

Clinton was the better debater (Opinion) - CNN.com

Todd Graham is the director of debate at Southern Illinois University. His teams have won five national championships and advanced to the "final-four" of a national championship tournament nine consecutive years. He's been recognized three times as the national debate coach of the year. The opinions expressed in this commentary are his.

But how did the candidates stack up in pure debating terms? Let's grade them.

The pre-debate rundown was that Hillary Clinton might be deeper on substance and logic, but Donald Trump should best her on personality and humor. Therefore, those are my grading categories. 

 

Substance/logic

 

Clinton: A- 

She didn't have many stumbles. She left a few things unanswered, such as Trump's claims that she was nasty toward President Barack Obama when she was running against him in 2008. But overall Trump left her substance mostly unchallenged. 

For example, Clinton had the best rationale I've heard for why Trump won't release his tax returns. She "four-pointed" (to use a debate term) Trump.

1. Maybe he's not as rich as he says.
2. Maybe he's not as charitable as he says.
3. Maybe he owes a lot of money to banks. 
4. Maybe he paid no federal income taxes (for troops, vets and schools, she helpfully pointed out). 

Trump had no answer in the debate other than perhaps to reveal a "tell": When Clinton mentioned "the only years (of tax returns) that anybody's ever seen were a couple of years when he had to turn them over to state authorities when he was trying to get a casino license, and they showed he didn't pay any federal income tax" -- a questionable assertion, say the fact-checkers -- he interrupted her only to say "that makes me smart." 

Trump: I'm 'smart' for paying no taxes 00:51

I also liked the subtlety of some of Clinton's debate tactics. She knew Trump would argue that the Iraq War was a bad idea, and that he would blame the US withdrawal from Iraq for the rise of ISIS. So she answered this by reminding the audience that it was George W. Bush who set the timetable of the Status of Forces Agreement that would remove US troops by 2011, and that Obama couldn't renegotiate it to leave a residual force in Iraq without the approval of Iraq. And Iraq did not approve.

Trump missed this argument.

Clinton also knew Trump would rail about the Iran nuclear deal. So she asserted that before a sanctions regime she helped usher in, Iran was weeks away from developing a nuclear weapon -- which is, to say the least, a debatable sequence of events. But Trump missed this argument, too. 

And on trade deals, after a rambling speech from Trump, Clinton pointed out that "trade is not our only challenge" for the economy. Yet again, Trump failed to respond to this point.

Trump: F 

Where to begin?

In debate jargon, Trump had "claims without warrants." He offered no proof for many of his arguments and conclusions. He did this tons of times. Asserting the Fed is political and only helping the economy to make Obama look good, asserting that "stop and frisk" was why crime went down, saying that ISIS was beating us at our own game when referring to cyberwar. Just three examples of claims without warrants.

An important trait for a debater is to be "topical." In other words, debaters should address the question being asked. And I'll be honest, I tried to follow Trump's train of thought. I really did. But once a train is derailed, it's pretty tough to see all the cars. 

Donald Trump defends tax cuts for the wealthy02:14

Organizationally, he just rambled. Debate judges call this a "messy" debate. Heck, one question was about taxes and somehow Trump ended up talking about our airports being like Third World countries. Finally, at times he made little sense, using the words "nuclear" and "cyber" as if they were complete sentences.

Trump's worst moments mirrored his worst moments at his first debate of the Republican primaries. He simply appeared both racist and sexist. There's no nice way to put it, well, because it's not nice. Not at all.

 

Racist

 

When Clinton hammered him on the birther movement, his answer, instead of an apology, was to repeat that in demanding a birth certificate from the President he did a good thing and that Obama should have produced it a long time before (as if challenging our first African-American President's birthplace was somehow anything less than racist). 

And, shockingly, Trump actually made a new, even more racist argument. He actually said that "the African-American community ... really wanted me to come to that conclusion and I think I did a great job and a great service, not only for the country but even for the President in getting him to produce his birth certificate."

Was there even more racism? Why yes, thank you for asking.

5 times Donald Trump was live fact-checked02:37

Perhaps you missed Trump patting himself on the back for, essentially, not being sued for discrimination in Palm Beach when he opened a club. Congratulations, you followed state and federal discrimination laws this time. And he reminded us that though he was the target of racial discrimination lawsuits by the Justice Department, they were "settled" with no admission of guilt. Yes, that's what people usually do when they "settle." But that hardly equates with innocence.

Trump also avowed his support for stop-and-frisk policing but then lied in front of the audience about whether or not a judge had properly found it to be illegal. The practice was in fact found to be unconstitutional, specifically on the grounds that it was racist and discriminatory.

 

Sexist

 

After Clinton hit him with his previous statements about women, Trump once again didn't apologize, but instead referenced an attack at Clinton that he could have made in retaliation for her bringing up the sexism issue, but didn't because he's not that kind of guy. He repeated insults he'd aimed at actress Rosie O'Donnell, just like in the first Republican primary debate. So in other words, when accused of being sexist, Trump actually said the phrase, "She deserves it." 

More sexist? Sure, why not. Oh, and let's throw in some more racism to boot. At one point, Clinton quoted Trump calling a Latina Miss Universe "Miss Housekeeping." Clinton then smartly stated, "Her name is Alicia Machado. She's a United States citizen, and she's going to vote this November." 

 

Personality/humor/nonverbal

 

Clinton: B-

Clinton won the this battle, that's for sure. But not because she was awesome. While her steady-as-she-goes approach was successful on the nonverbal front, it probably brought down her vocal inflection, where I'd like more variety. She's still a bit stiff. 

And I understand she wants to contrast her style with Trump's, but still, c'mon. If somebody interrupted you like Trump did her, you'd never tolerate it. I coach my debaters to call out the other person. So just once, at least once, I'd like Clinton to have said, "Mr. Trump: Stop. Interrupting. Me." 

Clinton: Trump called women pigs, slobs and dogs 01:56

The stamina question. Well, it wasn't a stamina question Lester Holt posed, but as Clinton pointed out, it was a question to Trump about his comment on her "looks" that in midanswer Trump switched to an issue of "stamina." I'm putting this under personality since Trump's made such a big deal about stamina the entire campaign. 

Clinton had maybe her best answer of the night here, reminding us of the real topic (looks/sexism) and then moving to her experience of being in 112 countries, negotiating ceasefires and testifying before Congress for 11 hours. Once he's done this, she quipped, "He can talk to me about stamina."

Trump: F- 

For nonverbal communication, Trump was awful. While Clinton was speaking, Trump scowled, frowned, gave the evil eye, sniffed and sighed. And this was on the very first question. After that, it was 90 minutes of "let's interrupt the woman on the stage." It was rude and annoying, and in this case it only added to the impression that Trump was sexist. 

I've seen this too many times in debates, and the impression is lasting. Finally, there were only two of them on stage, and he still was compelled to interrupt and say "wrong ... wrong ... wrong" during her answers. He didn't care that he'd get his turn. Trump simply couldn't stand being criticized. 

 

Overall grades?

 

Clinton: B

Trump: F

 

 

CNN opinion  

[Momorider]

5 minutes ago, SnowRider said:

And the vacancy should already be filled.  It's pathetic how your R's play politics with the court.  If justice is served - she wins amd nominates someone so liberal that Garland looks like Scalia.  Fuck the R's and their politicization of the court.  

 Taintrider talking about politicization  Barry has politicized everything you fucking hack, even the Fed like Trump rightfully mention in the debate. FUCK ME YOU ARE A CLOWN 

[Rod]

Hillary literally couldn't wiggle her way past talking points 

[Skidooski]

Debating over who was the 'better piece of shit' on stage last night   

[Highmark]

12 minutes ago, SnowRider said:

And the vacancy should already be filled.  It's pathetic how your R's play politics with the court.  If justice is served - she wins amd nominates someone so liberal that Garland looks like Scalia.  Fuck the R's and their politicization of the court.  

I won't go into the current vacancy as its not worth it to you and I wasn't referring to just that seat. 

[Highmark]

16 minutes ago, Mainecat said:

Why was Trump sniffling? Did he have a cold?

Noticed that too.  At least he didn't pass out from it. 

Edited September 27, 2016 by Highmark

[Momorider]

4 minutes ago, Highmark said:

Noticed that too.  At least he didn't pass out from it. 

DemonCUNTS will run with this

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/09/27/trumps-sniffles-prompt-howard-dean-to-tweet-coke-user.html

[SnowRider]

8 minutes ago, Highmark said:

I won't go into the current vacancy as its not worth it to you and I wasn't referring to just that seat. 

Yeah - you're best to steer clear of it.  There's no rationale to support your opinion except politicization of the court.  Hopefully it will come back and bite you fuckers in the ass.  You deserve it  

[Momorider]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/09/shock-post-debate-poll-hillary-clinton-takes-4th-place-abc-news-poll-behind-jill-stein-gary-johnson/

[racer254]

29 minutes ago, Mainecat said:

Why was Trump sniffling? Did he have a cold?

I didn't think you watched the debate?

[Momorider]

2 minutes ago, SnowRider said:

Yeah - you're best to steer clear of it.  There's no rationale to support your opinion except politicization of the court.  Hopefully it will come back and bite you fuckers in the ass.  You deserve it  

 

20 minutes ago, Momorider said:

 Taintrider talking about politicization  Barry has politicized everything you fucking hack, even the Fed like Trump rightfully mention in the debate. FUCK ME YOU ARE A CLOWN