12 hours ago, Not greg b said:

It wasn’t lack of innovation or quality control. What brought cat down was dealer credit. Anyone that says otherwise has no idea how dealerships work. The ceo of cat threw a Hail Mary as everyone sold out of 2014 model year sleds real fast. Best sales for the industry that year.  Ceo made the dealer program for 2015 model so stupid it maxed out the dealers credit and it was a low snow year. Come 2016 they couldn’t ship anything to a lot of dealers because the banks said no and they tanked.  Then textron came in and the “Textron canceled” dealers bullshit started. Textron didn’t cancel any dealers. They legally can’t go around and cancel dealers because they want to. Dealerships that were strapped with the cat line sent the inventory back and said we are done with you and moved on.  

They can, and did. Even here in NY with strong franchise laws. The reps were given a list of dealers to get rid of. 
Cutting a vast number of dealers was a decision made by textron.

Edited October 24, 20232 yr by krom

1 hour ago, krom said:

They can, and did. Even here in NY with strong franchise laws. The reps were given a list of dealers to get rid of. 
Cutting a vast number of dealers was a decision made by textron.

I had heard rumblings that they were canning the ones that didn't sell many units and/or sold units at a discount, even if they were otherwise stellar dealers and strategically located.

None of that makes any sense. If you are in the business to sell sleds, why would you close down the dealers that sell your sleds. This conspiracy theory  is right up there with election fraud. 

49 minutes ago, AK440 said:

None of that makes any sense. If you are in the business to sell sleds, why would you close down the dealers that sell your sleds. 

Because they didn't in a profitable way.  Either way, huge fuck up on Textron's part.

4 hours ago, AK440 said:

None of that makes any sense. If you are in the business to sell sleds, why would you close down the dealers that sell your sleds. This conspiracy theory  is right up there with election fraud. 

Where you been??

https://www.autofinancenews.net/allposts/most-read-powersports-finance-stories-of-2019/

"Arctic Cat parent company Textron reported that it would cut back on snowmobile inventory to maximize profits. Specifically, the OEM would only produce snowmobiles that were pre-sold, Chief Executive Scott Donnelly said in the company’s second-quarter earnings call. The company had already pre-sold all 2020 models. Additionally, the OEM “dramatically reduced” partnerships with off-road dealers, Donnelly said."

8 hours ago, krom said:

They can, and did. Even here in NY with strong franchise laws. The reps were given a list of dealers to get rid of. 
Cutting a vast number of dealers was a decision made by textron.

 

7 hours ago, Premium said:

I had heard rumblings that they were canning the ones that didn't sell many units and/or sold units at a discount, even if they were otherwise stellar dealers and strategically located.

Almost every dealer within 50 miles of a bass pro/tracker was killed off as part of the deal for tracker off road, we are one of the only ones who didn't get canceled for that reason, but we are also one of top 5 volume dealers every year.

5 hours ago, AK440 said:

None of that makes any sense. If you are in the business to sell sleds, why would you close down the dealers that sell your sleds. This conspiracy theory  is right up there with election fraud. 

Firing a majority of your engineers, R&D department, and tech support staff doesn't make any sense, either but it happened too.

BTW I know first hand that is exactly what and how it happened. I know folks at the factory, and I know dealers that got shut down.  It was an order from corporate, period.

It was all ordered by Scott Ernest, who would fire anyone who questioned the decision. (he has ties to Johnny Morris)

Textron has bough and killed tons of companies over the years.  Since they decided to play with sxs and atv, badboy offroad, is dead and buried, as is that webber engine they bragged about, then moved production from germany to the st cloud plant.

4 hours ago, Deephaven said:

Because they didn't in a profitable way.  Either way, huge fuck up on Textron's part.

Didn't have that much to do with profitability, good and bad, big and small dealers got shut down.  They killed 5 dealers in the Rochester NY area, and haven't replaced a single one.
The city has a 30 year average snowfall of 104" and is close to a several of areas that regularly hit with lake effect snow,

 

Edited October 25, 20232 yr by krom

speaking of dealers, here is the dealer locator based on roughly the center of the state (Syracuse average snowfall 127"):

AC

Doo:

 

Polaris:

 

8 minutes ago, krom said:

speaking of dealers, here is the dealer locator based on roughly the center of the state (Syracuse average snowfall 127"):

AC

Doo:

 

Polaris:

 

Most of you New York fucks want to be with AOC. Seems like plenty of locations for normal, non internet JESUS. Folk.

30 minutes ago, krom said:

Almost every dealer within 50 miles of a bass pro/tracker was killed off as part of the deal for tracker off road, we are one of the only ones who didn't get canceled for that reason, but we are also one of top 5 volume dealers every year.

Firing a majority of your engineers, R&D department, and tech support staff doesn't make any sense, either but it happened too.

BTW I know first hand that is exactly what and how it happened. I know folks at the factory, and I know dealers that got shut down.  It was an order from corporate, period.

It was all ordered by Scott Ernest, who would fire anyone who questioned the decision. (he has ties to Johnny Morris)

Textron has bough and killed tons of companies over the years.  Since they decided to play with sxs and atv, badboy offroad, is dead and buried, as is that webber engine they bragged about, then moved production from germany to the st cloud plant.

Didn't have that much to do with profitability, good and bad, big and small dealers got shut down.  They killed 5 dealers in the Rochester NY area, and haven't replaced a single one.
The city has a 30 year average snowfall of 104" and is close to a several of areas that regularly hit with lake effect snow,

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I saw Cat four wheelers in Cabelas a while back and thought it was a weird place to sell them. In my mind it diminished the brand. Then I’m like why? That doesn’t make sense since I don’t think less of any gun or clothing brand being sold at Cabelas. I guess I’m too used to the traditional dealer selling model for power sports.
 

I suspect many people won’t care and perhaps Cabelas can offer better pay and benefits to power sports department employees than a traditional dealership? Maybe Textron is on to something here and it’s too early to see it through an enthusiast eyes?  

10 hours ago, krom said:

They can, and did. Even here in NY with strong franchise laws. The reps were given a list of dealers to get rid of. 
Cutting a vast number of dealers was a decision made by textron.

Not to defend them with not bringing dealers back in areas that lost them but the 3 or 4 by me (where I used to live) that got canned were all pretty bad dealers. 2 of them were Agway feed stores and All Seasons was trying to sell leftover 13s in 2015 for MSRP. GT Toyz being a dealer now fills that areas void and whether they’re great or not at least they’re a POWERSPORTS DEALER first which is something a lot of cat dealers still hanging on from the 70s were missing. I have no idea how tanners is still a dealer, last time I went by there they had a cardboard sign under the Cat sign advertising blue tick hound puppies for sale…

10 hours ago, krom said:

speaking of dealers, here is the dealer locator based on roughly the center of the state (Syracuse average snowfall 127"):

AC

I was about to complain, then out of curiosity checked the dealer locator and to my utter shock they've added a dealer to our area again after losing/cutting several.   guess I'll have to wander by there and find out what the story is... but as stated, I'm shocked.  

I'm down to 4 Cat dealers within 50 miles of me. Doesn't seem horrible, but then you realize we are a major metropolitan area and 2 of the 4 are dealer to driveway only, so there's almost no evidence they are Cat "dealers" at all on the inside (And one doesn't even have a sign on the outside).

14 hours ago, Palu49 said:

Not to defend them with not bringing dealers back in areas that lost them but the 3 or 4 by me (where I used to live) that got canned were all pretty bad dealers. 2 of them were Agway feed stores and All Seasons was trying to sell leftover 13s in 2015 for MSRP. GT Toyz being a dealer now fills that areas void and whether they’re great or not at least they’re a POWERSPORTS DEALER first which is something a lot of cat dealers still hanging on from the 70s were missing. I have no idea how tanners is still a dealer, last time I went by there they had a cardboard sign under the Cat sign advertising blue tick hound puppies for sale…

Tanners is one of the ones that got canceled.

They came back after textron changed management, and the new guy though having dealers would be a good idea

15 hours ago, AK440 said:

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I saw Cat four wheelers in Cabelas a while back and thought it was a weird place to sell them. In my mind it diminished the brand. Then I’m like why? That doesn’t make sense since I don’t think less of any gun or clothing brand being sold at Cabelas. I guess I’m too used to the traditional dealer selling model for power sports.
 

I suspect many people won’t care and perhaps Cabelas can offer better pay and benefits to power sports department employees than a traditional dealership? Maybe Textron is on to something here and it’s too early to see it through an enthusiast eyes?  

bass-pro had textron stuff before they bought AC, bad boy buggies, and no name offshore atvs they badged as bad boy.

Big box stores have tried to sell atv's / sxs for a long time. Must be it seems like a great idea to a handfull of guys in upper management.  I know that AC was in gander mountain 10 or 20 years ago, and think bombardier had machines in big box stores too (back before bringing back canned ham name)  But that was a long time ago, and I didn't give a shit back then, so it may not have happened.

Locally the rep told us you had to make all leftovers disappear ASAP and there would not be any rebates after the existing one. Any dealer that had units left after the rebate ended, lost their dealership.

Makes sense to me because needing to rebate to move units only cost AC money and not the dealer.
No more rebates means that AC doesnt lose money when theres leftovers and inspires the dealers to move the non currents ASAP.

Be nice if Doo and Poo would get on that train because if they all agreed it would be better for everyone.

4 hours ago, krom said:

bass-pro had textron stuff before they bought AC, bad boy buggies, and no name offshore atvs they badged as bad boy.

Big box stores have tried to sell atv's / sxs for a long time. Must be it seems like a great idea to a handfull of guys in upper management.  I know that AC was in gander mountain 10 or 20 years ago, and think bombardier had machines in big box stores too (back before bringing back canned ham name)  But that was a long time ago, and I didn't give a shit back then, so it may not have happened.

The bass pro shops in auburn always had cat wheelers there since they opened a long time ago but I don’t if that was normal for them or not, I know Cat and Bass pro used to sponsor Tony Stewart’s sprint car series together as well.

I miss the days of Cat's fire sales. My wife picked up her '17 ZR8000 LXR for $9500 and Cat financed it at 0%. They had to be losing huge $$ to move those sleds, and as a consumer I was very happy to take advantage of it. 

Then, when Cat transitioned to spring snow check orders only, even dealers like Country Cat suddenly moved to more of a retail price structure. No more fire sales from high volume dealers like Country Cat. 

I still have Cat dealers in my area, but if and when I buy another Cat, it will be from one of the old time legacy dealers such as Thomas Sno Sports. The "new" dealers in my area don't seem to be hardcore about the Cat brand at all.....

On 10/25/2023 at 9:00 PM, Ziemann said:

I miss the days of Cat's fire sales. My wife picked up her '17 ZR8000 LXR for $9500 and Cat financed it at 0%. They had to be losing huge $$ to move those sleds, and as a consumer I was very happy to take advantage of it. 

Then, when Cat transitioned to spring snow check orders only, even dealers like Country Cat suddenly moved to more of a retail price structure. No more fire sales from high volume dealers like Country Cat. 

I still have Cat dealers in my area, but if and when I buy another Cat, it will be from one of the old time legacy dealers such as Thomas Sno Sports. The "new" dealers in my area don't seem to be hardcore about the Cat brand at all.....

I remember I paid 8300 plus tax for my brand new 2015 tucker as a carry over. Textron had to take it in the shorts get the dealer’s credit lines freed up. 

4 hours ago, Not greg b said:

I remember I paid 8300 plus tax for my brand new 2015 tucker as a carry over. Textron had to take it in the shorts get the dealer’s credit lines freed up. 

$7200 out the door for our 2015 XF6000 Cross Country with a spare belt and a cover.

One of the 2018 R-XC's was even cheaper the year they let us racers buy out of salvage.  Wish I could have bought a semi load or two of them.

4 minutes ago, racinfarmer said:

$7200 out the door for our 2015 XF6000 Cross Country with a spare belt and a cover.

One of the 2018 R-XC's was even cheaper the year they let us racers buy out of salvage.  Wish I could have bought a semi load or two of them.

That ship has sailed. Poo and Doo will have lots of leftovers from 2022 on it seems though. Good riddance!

26 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

That ship has sailed. Poo and Doo will have lots of leftovers from 2022 on it seems though. Good riddance!

I could buy a Cateryst RXC in my choice of Men's or the model that shouldn't exist.  Got that phone call this morning.

I'm sure I'd spend a bunch making it the way I want it...

Edited October 31, 20232 yr by racinfarmer

4 minutes ago, racinfarmer said:

I could buy a Cateryst RXC in my choice of Men's or the model that shouldn't exist.  Got that phone call this morning.

I'm sure I'd spend a bunch making it the way I want it...

But no discount. That's my point.

5 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

But no discount. That's my point.

But I have the chance to buy one.

Probably 2 if I really wanted them.

1 minute ago, racinfarmer said:

But I have the chance to buy one.

Probably 2 if I really wanted them.

If not let the real racers know. I'd take the E start if I was looking. To old to pull I guess. Glad my 129 has it, along with Atac. 

19 minutes ago, racinfarmer said:

I could buy a Cateryst RXC in my choice of Men's or the model that shouldn't exist.  Got that phone call this morning.

I'm sure I'd spend a bunch making it the way I want it...

kudos, but are Alaskan's being offered a similar 'deal'?