2024 Arctic Cat Catalyst 'Chassis' details?

[Art Vandelay]

On 5/14/2023 at 8:50 PM, Cat45 said:

Another failed ctech. I can find more pics on my phone of other ones too if you want. This Sled was ridden by his wife 

What year was it? Didn't they redo the pistons around 18 or so because of these issues?

[Cat45]

27 minutes ago, Art Vandelay said:

What year was it? Didn't they redo the pistons around 18 or so because of these issues?

I'm pretty sure it was a 16 xf 6000. It was before the updated pistons

[krom]

'14 pistons seemed to be problem free. '15 not so much, and updated part number for '17

If you want to change pistons, and use AC parts, order kit pn 0905-169, it has 2 pistons/rings, and fits all '14 to '23 600's (msrp $421.95 for a box with 2 vs $260.95 each)

[teamgreen02]

1 hour ago, krom said:

'14 pistons seemed to be problem free. '15 not so much, and updated part number for '17

If you want to change pistons, and use AC parts, order kit pn 0905-169, it has 2 pistons/rings, and fits all '14 to '23 600's (msrp $421.95 for a box with 2 vs $260.95 each)

I had 8000 hard miles on my 2016 600 before I put the updated piston kit in.  Both pistons looked really good yet and no noticeable wear on the cylinders either.

 

[J. Jackson]

5 hours ago, krom said:

despite what the moron claims, its going to be 860

Better hope that it's more silky than the old 860, the crank runout king.

[krom]

36 minutes ago, J. Jackson said:

Better hope that it's more silky than the old 860, the crank runout king.

heard a lot about the mag crank wheel walking off the rod pin, but never saw it in person.

That 800/900 was supposed to have the injectors firing into the case, instead of the throttle bodies, the castings had bosses but never made it to production.

The 800 and 1000 laydown originally had injectors in the case, and into the boost port, bosses on them too, but no production units made, even though they had signs, cutaways etc at the dealer show.

[Art Vandelay]

8 hours ago, Cat45 said:

I'm pretty sure it was a 16 xf 6000. It was before the updated pistons

Ok got it. Mine is an 18. I can't remember what miles I have on it but I think around 7K.

[mnstang]

15 hours ago, J. Jackson said:

Better hope that it's more silky than the old 860, the crank runout king.

I'd take another 862 Suzuki twin in a heartbeat 

[J. Jackson]

To each his own. They went ok pre DD.

[mnstang]

They will rape any newer sled on the trail.  Dry.

[krom]

8 hours ago, mnstang said:

They will rape any newer sled on a perfectly flat trail.  Dry.

 

[mnstang]

1 hour ago, krom said:

 

Those are how the trails are nowadays.

[J. Jackson]

14 hours ago, mnstang said:

They will rape any newer sled on the trail.  Dry.

DD sleds were pooches. Most older sleds with low travel would do well on the flat stuff.

Edited August 3, 2023 by J. Jackson

[Ziemann]

Frankly, Cat is being really conservative- it took them forever to bring out the Catalyst, and then they offered the revised 600. Very Conservative. So for a new engine, I don't expect anything crazy. An 850. Another conservative "Me Too" offering similar to what the Catalyst is. 

When it was time for my wife to buy a new sled, she asked about a reliable sled, AND longevity (which shocked the hell outta me). So, I was honest. She chose a left over '17 Suzuki 800 in her ZR8000 LXR, and she has been happy ever since. 

My Cat C-tec2 600's treated me well in my RR & Roger Skime. So, I'd consider buying a new Cat 600- once it is proven. Unfortunately, my riding buddy still hasn't been able to get his 800 to run right, or be anywhere as reliable as the 600.

My next sled will likely be my retirement sled, SO in order for me to even consider a Cat, the Catalyst release needs to be pretty flawless. My Polaris VR-1 650 has been a joy to own...... and it is going to be tough for Cat to pull me back in....

 

  

[stinkipinki]

37 minutes ago, J. Jackson said:

DD sleds were pooches. Most older sleds with low travel would do well on the flat stuff.

I dunno man, I had DD on a 2006 F7 EFI and a 2010 F8 Sno Pro and both of those sleds moved pretty good.
Albeit the DD was in excellent shape with fresh oil changes every 1500 miles.

[stinkipinki]

6 minutes ago, Ziemann said:

Frankly, Cat is being really conservative- it took them forever to bring out the Catalyst, and then they offered the revised 600. Very Conservative. So for a new engine, I don't expect anything crazy. An 850. Another conservative "Me Too" offering similar to what the Catalyst is. 

When it was time for my wife to buy a new sled, she asked about a reliable sled, AND longevity (which shocked the hell outta me). So, I was honest. She chose a left over '17 Suzuki 800 in her ZR8000 LXR, and she has been happy ever since. 

My Cat C-tec2 600's treated me well in my RR & Roger Skime. So, I'd consider buying a new Cat 600- once it is proven. Unfortunately, my riding buddy still hasn't been able to get his 800 to run right, or be anywhere as reliable as the 600.

My next sled will likely be my retirement sled, SO in order for me to even consider a Cat, the Catalyst release needs to be pretty flawless. My Polaris VR-1 650 has been a joy to own...... and it is going to be tough for Cat to pull me back in....

  

 

 

I don't see how only offering the 600 is conservative.
Polaris did the same thing with the Rush in 2010.

I also don't see Cat doing a 'Me Too' engine. 
The only reason they are doing an 860-920cc is so it can fit into the Catalyst, but I am guessing there will be Turbo options for it, maybe even the 600 too as it already has the 800 crank. We'll see.

Far as the 800 CTEC, it was Cat's first real go at a big bore. They got it close after the 2nd revision but from hearing Cat's team speak about how things have been, Catalyst has been something they've put most of their R&D into the past 5 years. Doesn't matter how good the motor is if the chassis is outdated, that needed to be priority #1, especially for them with limited resources...well compared to larger competition. Knowing the industry moved to 850's, they started working on the presumably 860 and new chassis years ago.

I think Cat will pull in alot of customers, riders love the new Cat, it supposedaly handles better then anything out there and its weight figures look real good. That trail belt drive and progressive steering makes your 650 outdated.
 

[Deephaven]

You are green blind though

 

[p51mstg]

Is it okay if I think the Radiant Green VR1 is the best VR1?

[mnstang]

5 hours ago, J. Jackson said:

DD sleds were pooches. Most older sleds with low travel would do well on the flat stuff.

Stock they were not clutched too well.  Top end across a lake they're geared for about 112 but in a drag race they're every bit as fast as a chain sled when prepped.  I've had one since new and it is very healthy, on a trail the only time you'd pin it is just to giggle and shake your head and that's riding it hard.  Thing still blows me away when I ride it.  There are trails where nothing in this world will touch that sled.

[krom]

5 hours ago, Ziemann said:

Frankly, Cat is being really conservative- it took them forever to bring out the Catalyst, and then they offered the revised 600. Very Conservative. So for a new engine, I don't expect anything crazy. An 850. Another conservative "Me Too" offering similar to what the Catalyst is. 

When it was time for my wife to buy a new sled, she asked about a reliable sled, AND longevity (which shocked the hell outta me). So, I was honest. She chose a left over '17 Suzuki 800 in her ZR8000 LXR, and she has been happy ever since. 

My Cat C-tec2 600's treated me well in my RR & Roger Skime. So, I'd consider buying a new Cat 600- once it is proven. Unfortunately, my riding buddy still hasn't been able to get his 800 to run right, or be anywhere as reliable as the 600.

My next sled will likely be my retirement sled, SO in order for me to even consider a Cat, the Catalyst release needs to be pretty flawless. My Polaris VR-1 650 has been a joy to own...... and it is going to be tough for Cat to pull me back in....

 

  

My Experience:

Check fuel pressure first, and make sure its clutched to 8100-8150

New Injectors (ecu must have the codes from the injectors put in)  and updated flash fixes most of them.

Aftermarket "can" helps (doesn't have to be a loud one)

PEFI tune fixes the rest. (and makes enough hp to need a few more grams in the primary)

Didn't have any 18s go down, had one or 2 19's 20 was good, 21 was a disaster, 22 and 23 seem to be good again.

The team clutched sleds came set up too light for this area (500' to 1500' elevation) getting the rpm down to 8150 is a big thing with reliability. imho

Edited August 3, 2023 by krom

[krom]

5 hours ago, stinkipinki said:

 

I don't see how only offering the 600 is conservative.
Polaris did the same thing with the Rush in 2010.

I also don't see Cat doing a 'Me Too' engine. 
The only reason they are doing an 860-920cc is so it can fit into the Catalyst, but I am guessing there will be Turbo options for it, maybe even the 600 too as it already has the 800 crank. We'll see.

Far as the 800 CTEC, it was Cat's first real go at a big bore. They got it close after the 2nd revision but from hearing Cat's team speak about how things have been, Catalyst has been something they've put most of their R&D into the past 5 years. Doesn't matter how good the motor is if the chassis is outdated, that needed to be priority #1, especially for them with limited resources...well compared to larger competition. Knowing the industry moved to 850's, they started working on the presumably 860 and new chassis years ago.

I think Cat will pull in alot of customers, riders love the new Cat, it supposedaly handles better then anything out there and its weight figures look real good. That trail belt drive and progressive steering makes your 650 outdated.
 

you are missing the fact that textron fired 90% of the people involved in R&D, and cut the budget to 0, when they brought in the second "leader".  Other than guys working on stuff after hours and at home, not much of anything was done until hedi got there.  18 months later catalyst was released with basically the same engine.  Now she's gone, and no one at all is "leading"

Edited August 4, 2023 by krom

[Crnr2Crnr]

28 minutes ago, krom said:

Didn't have any 18s go down, had one or 2 19's 20 was good, 21 was a disaster, 22 and 23 seem to be good again.

 

don't get me started otb... 😡

[stinkipinki]

40 minutes ago, krom said:

you are missing the fact that textron fired 90% of the people involved in R&D, and cut the budget to 0, when they brought in the second "leader".  Other than guys working on stuff after hours and at home, not much of anything was done until hedi got there.  18 months later catalyst was released with basically the same engine.  Now she's gone, and no one at all is "leading"

To say that 'nothing got done' or 'Cat wasn't working on a new chassis' for several years is horseshit.

[ZR6000RR]

2 minutes ago, stinkipinki said:

To say that 'nothing got done' or 'Cat wasn't working on a new chassis' for several years is horseshit.

He is full of shit! I am not going out on a limb here to say, Troy Halvorson has again been put in charge.  He should be permanently appointed. Those supposed let go were all of retirement age. New blood was needed.  Greg Spalding was hired back as a contract worker. Guessing he is who designed the 860/870 (10 fucking cc's) motor. Life is good.

[krom]

59 minutes ago, stinkipinki said:

To say that 'nothing got done' or 'Cat wasn't working on a new chassis' for several years is horseshit.

Guess you know about as much about what was going on as the site moron...

I'm not joking when I say the majority of people responsible for R&D, design, and testing got fired.  Including roger, gls, don eidie (RIP). 

They had one single person doing engine calibration for 2 stroke, and 4 stroke, dirt, and snow.

They brought gls back as a consultant 2 ish years ago.  The 860 (despite the moron saying its an 870, he doesn't what the actual displacement is) My "bet" is its not quite 860..

Look at the race department, it was gutted, and mostly shut down.  Mike is the only one left, and he was moved out of the race/special services building and into the main factory. 

I personally know of several projects that aren't ready for the 24 catalyst because funding was cut off, and no work was to be done.  Some of the guys worked  anyway, on days off, or after hours.

Edited August 4, 2023 by krom