2024 Arctic Cat Catalyst 'Chassis' details?

[Not greg b]

2 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

mountain cans... aka 'trail closers' 

their actual trail mufflers are pretty decent but to my knowledge there are no actual 'approved' mufflers or cans out there other than stock because the aftermarket guys aren't willing to pay for the official J2567 db testing and can't get them quiet enough without making them heavy... like stock.  

 

but you know this

 

 

Diamond S may have. They are the only ones I have seen that state it will pass that test in their advertising. 

[Palu49]

3 minutes ago, Not greg b said:

Diamond S may have. They are the only ones I have seen that state it will pass that test in their advertising. 

I believe they are approved, they’re definitely as quite or maybe even quieter than stock and fuck are those things light.

[Crnr2Crnr]

18 minutes ago, Not greg b said:

Diamond S may have. They are the only ones I have seen that state it will pass that test in their advertising. 

if they don't have the stamp of approval... then technically they're not 'legal'.   that said, if an LEO tries to site you for aftermarket exhaust without performing a db test, fight it in court. 

You ever ran into a MI dnr checkpoint?  Apparently they're doing more of it to get the Bro cans off the trails.  

[Not greg b]

17 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

if they don't have the stamp of approval... then technically they're not 'legal'.   that said, if an LEO tries to site you for aftermarket exhaust without performing a db test, fight it in court. 

You ever ran into a MI dnr checkpoint?  Apparently they're doing more of it to get the Bro cans off the trails.  

I will have to open my oven and check. My friends have ass hole loud cans and we have road right by the cops many times and they don’t care. They usually wait another 10 seconds for some other jack ass to come into town, cans blazing and doing some flower garden boon docking. They get way more than one fine when that person shows up. 

[Not greg b]

42 minutes ago, Palu49 said:

I believe they are approved, they’re definitely as quite or maybe even quieter than stock and fuck are those things light.

I think the packaging mine came in weighed more than the actual can. 

[Jimmy Snacks]

1 hour ago, Not greg b said:

Diamond S may have. They are the only ones I have seen that state it will pass that test in their advertising. 

 

1 hour ago, Palu49 said:

I believe they are approved, they’re definitely as quite or maybe even quieter than stock and fuck are those things light.

The Diamond S Ti Can is a thing of beauty.👊🏻🇺🇸

[mnstang]

6 hours ago, Palu49 said:

I believe they are approved, they’re definitely as quite or maybe even quieter than stock and fuck are those things light.

The diamond s quiet on my 19 was definitely louder than stock.  Mostly at idle and lower rpms.  But it was obvious it wasn't stock 

[p51mstg]

I didn't think any aftermarket can would be as quiet as stock.  Might have to look into the Diamond S cans....

[Deephaven]

On 8/9/2023 at 7:14 AM, Crnr2Crnr said:

their actual trail mufflers are pretty decent but to my knowledge there are no actual 'approved' mufflers or cans out there other than stock because the aftermarket guys aren't willing to pay for the official J2567 db testing and can't get them quiet enough without making them heavy... like stock.  

but you know this

The toolbox the oem's have now allow them to model and verify every possible flow condition.  An aftermarket group won't suffer just with paying for the testing, but they can't actually design a can that truly has better flow and less noise.  They just don't have the tools or knowledge.  The days of bolt on power and passing noise pass by are gone as the OE's have WAY more engineering capability and that is a fight they go after like crazy.  That being said, an aftermarket intake is even harder to design to meet passby.

On 8/9/2023 at 9:44 AM, Palu49 said:

I believe they are approved, they’re definitely as quite or maybe even quieter than stock and fuck are those things light.

If they are they will scream from the top of every possible mountain and in every piece of literature that they are J2567 compliant.  Of course this will mean they have to test on every variation of said sled including: track length, track lug height, tunnel length, and so on.  The lawmakers have made it far from trivial for aftermarket manufacturers.  There is no lobbying there to support them and the OE's don't want the headache of having non-certified things on their machines.

[Crnr2Crnr]

9 minutes ago, Deephaven said:

The toolbox the oem's have now allow them to model and verify every possible flow condition.  An aftermarket group won't suffer just with paying for the testing, but they can't actually design a can that truly has better flow and less noise.  They just don't have the tools or knowledge.  The days of bolt on power and passing noise pass by are gone as the OE's have WAY more engineering capability and that is a fight they go after like crazy.  That being said, an aftermarket intake is even harder to design to meet passby.

If they are they will scream from the top of every possible mountain and in every piece of literature that they are J2567 compliant.  Of course this will mean they have to test on every variation of said sled including: track length, track lug height, tunnel length, and so on.  The lawmakers have made it far from trivial for aftermarket manufacturers.  There is no lobbying there to support them and the OE's don't want the headache of having non-certified things on their machines.

so, how much more noise do you want to make and how much power do you want to lose to make it. 

 

[Simple Jim]

I just went for the straight pipe out of ol polly.

 

Just like my brother Jim goes for straight guys pipes in norman county

[mnstang]

1 hour ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

so, how much more noise do you want to make and how much power do you want to lose to make it. 

 

There used to be great tech info on HCS in the cat forums.  I remember they tested mufflers on a procross and most did gain power on the dyno.  It might have been info from that dyno Jim guy, dynotech maybe?  Can't remember his company name.

Even putting the reducer would increase power.

[Crnr2Crnr]

9 minutes ago, mnstang said:

There used to be great tech info on HCS in the cat forums.  I remember they tested mufflers on a procross and most did gain power on the dyno.  It might have been info from that dyno Jim guy, dynotech maybe?  Can't remember his company name.

Even putting the reducer would increase power.

would be interesting to see one sled tested with every can out there vs stock.  

peak power vs a broad powerband would be good to see as well.  if the can makes (let's say) 2hp more at 8000rpm but underperforms across the rest of the rpm range... imo it's a piece of junk because who is actually riding at 8000 rpm all the time and how many more db are you willing to tolerate for 2hp?

It's never going to happen though.  if there were broad gains in the entire powerband they would be advertising the crap out of them.

[mnstang]

21 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

would be interesting to see one sled tested with every can out there vs stock.  

peak power vs a broad powerband would be good to see as well.  if the can makes (let's say) 2hp more at 8000rpm but underperforms across the rest of the rpm range... imo it's a piece of junk because who is actually riding at 8000 rpm all the time and how many more db are you willing to tolerate for 2hp?

It's never going to happen though.  if there were broad gains in the entire powerband they would be advertising the crap out of them.

If I cared enough I would look for those HCS threads.  But I don't.  They might have had the whole powerband, not just peak.   Most cans gained.  Diamond s was the winner.  Maybe one or two lost power.

[krom]

1 hour ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

would be interesting to see one sled tested with every can out there vs stock.  

peak power vs a broad powerband would be good to see as well.  if the can makes (let's say) 2hp more at 8000rpm but underperforms across the rest of the rpm range... imo it's a piece of junk because who is actually riding at 8000 rpm all the time and how many more db are you willing to tolerate for 2hp?

It's never going to happen though.  if there were broad gains in the entire powerband they would be advertising the crap out of them.

 

1 hour ago, mnstang said:

If I cared enough I would look for those HCS threads.  But I don't.  They might have had the whole powerband, not just peak.   Most cans gained.  Diamond s was the winner.  Maybe one or two lost power.

It was on a procross 800, at dynotech research (Jim Czekala).  The write up and results are on his website.  Same place that has always done the testing for the shootout.  One of the few honest, and unbiased dyno shops in existence.  afik all the manufactures have used his services at one point or another.  Hell during the 800 cfi debacle poo even flew an engineer with mapping software to his place.

Diamond S made a fair bit of HP, and weighed almost nothing (if you've never held one in person they are shockingly light)  some made the same hp as stock, some lost. 
For short runs dropping a short piece of smaller pipe in the stock muffler made a nice gain.

http://dynotechresearch.com/

[Deephaven]

If you add meeting pass by to the equation, none of them will make as much power as stock.  The OE's spend an inordinate amount of time working on getting the machines to peak power and then compromising to meet passby.  It used to be that there was more art in the engineering of a pipe and less real engineering so aftermarket companies could compete.  That isn't the case anymore.  The pipes are engineered all the way down to specific material properties to ensure that the resonances are consistent and that the variation from pipe to pipe will also keep them in a range they don't make more noise.  The amount of noise measuring equipment at each of the manu's is well over $1M per.

Amusing of course is Cat's stupid "anechoic" room.  This idiotic thing was designed to allow simulated passby and other such tests...but was a monstrous failure.

It is SUPER great at measure track/dyno noise though.  Absolutely idiotic in the whole approach and during the whole investment Bala just argued it's merit regardless of the expense.  That room alone is more than a $1M "investment" in this case which I would consider just a loss.  It's only value is marketing...and anyone who knows anything about acoustics laughs like hell at that.

[mnstang]

I modified a can fory Puma and it became the world's fastest Puma so I must be doing something right.

[krom]

1 hour ago, Deephaven said:

If you add meeting pass by to the equation, none of them will make as much power as stock.  The OE's spend an inordinate amount of time working on getting the machines to peak power and then compromising to meet passby.  It used to be that there was more art in the engineering of a pipe and less real engineering so aftermarket companies could compete.  That isn't the case anymore.  The pipes are engineered all the way down to specific material properties to ensure that the resonances are consistent and that the variation from pipe to pipe will also keep them in a range they don't make more noise.  The amount of noise measuring equipment at each of the manu's is well over $1M per.

Amusing of course is Cat's stupid "anechoic" room.  This idiotic thing was designed to allow simulated passby and other such tests...but was a monstrous failure.

It is SUPER great at measure track/dyno noise though.  Absolutely idiotic in the whole approach and during the whole investment Bala just argued it's merit regardless of the expense.  That room alone is more than a $1M "investment" in this case which I would consider just a loss.  It's only value is marketing...and anyone who knows anything about acoustics laughs like hell at that.

yea, but "quiet track"

[Palu49]

At the end of the day Dynoport is the only thing even worth running. Rich doesn’t let racers use track stands at his event because a lot of them run dynoport pipes and they’ll blow the tracks to pieces in a blip of the throttle. Don’t believe me? Just ask him

[Not greg b]

4 hours ago, Palu49 said:

At the end of the day Dynoport is the only thing even worth running. Rich doesn’t let racers use track stands at his event because a lot of them run dynoport pipes and they’ll blow the tracks to pieces in a blip of the throttle. Don’t believe me? Just ask him

True statement. Simple Jim is the glue tech for those pipes and runs them exclusively. 

[Crnr2Crnr]

Yamaha Vespel Slides... 

https://www.arcticinsider.com/inside-qa-arctic-cat-launches-high-tech-tiger-wear-strips/

 

[ZR6000RR]

22 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

Yamaha Vespel Slides... 

https://www.arcticinsider.com/inside-qa-arctic-cat-launches-high-tech-tiger-wear-strips/

 

Not even close. Obviously you did not read article. Not surprisingly since you own sleds where parts are running out.

[Sled_Hed]

8 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

Not even close. Obviously you did not read article. Not surprisingly since you own sleds where parts are running out.

[Crnr2Crnr]

11 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

Not even close. Obviously you did not read article. Not surprisingly since you own sleds where parts are running out.

not even close?   

you don't grasp   well do you ? 

 

get those spring pressures dialed in yet?  

 

 

[krom]

12 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

Not even close. Obviously you did not read article. Not surprisingly since you own sleds where parts are running out.

boy you really are a moron

They are basically identical, a complete copy other than the insert material was changed from vespel, and was changed from a 45, to 60 degree angle.  The base material, and manufacturing process is the same.

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by krom