VAST Removes Ice Crossings from Statewide Snowmobile Trail System

[steve from amherst]

Last night at the October VAST Board of Directors meeting it was unanimously voted to eliminate any trails crossing frozen bodies of water. The trails that have existed for decades will be removed from the map and trails will be dead ended near the frozen bodies of water for local access.

From this point moving forward trails will now terminate near the frozen bodies of water and any travel past the end of the trail will be at the snowmobilers own risk.

What does this mean for you as a snowmobiler in our area? Any use of Lake Memphremagog or Derby Pond to access the trails in Orleans County or for ice fishing purposes will be at your own risk. You will be leaving the VAST trail system once you pass the sign “VAST Trail Ends Here”. VAST will not be liable for any incidents happening on the ice.

This solution was a compromise between our clubs, the county, and VAST. If not for the persistence of our clubs and the other clubs in this county, trails leading to frozen bodies of water would have been eliminated years ago. This would have meant no access to many parts of the county during low snow conditions and anyone living near a lake would have no access to the system.

There are many involved in VAST governance who had no problem stripping us of our rights to access the trails from our local frozen bodies of water. Many of our members live along these beautiful lakes and expect access to the trails when they feel it is safe to do so.

This vote was an example of the power of our voices being heard. Our members wanted to retain our traditional right to cross our local lakes and for now, we still can.

For those unfamiliar with local ice conditions, trails around Lake Memphremagog will be renumbered to provide a contiguous Trail 105 traversing the county from West to East without having to leave the VAST trail system.

Again, this was the result of many many meetings, some with local legislators, in which your local volunteers attended to keep our Vermont traditions alive. Thank you to all who helped with this and thank you to the VAST Trails Committee and Long Range Planning Committee for your work and patience on this.

Roger Gosselin

President, Orleans County Snowmobile Assn

VAST Orleans County Directo

[s pump]

Quebec did something similar several years ago. Eliminates the liability for someone riding off into the water. Rangeley Lake has ice heaves the size of a shed that people hit every season but they won't mark them due to liability if they mark those and not other hazards. 

[CFM]

Our area did that long tine ago. Too many danger areas. Thus needing gps (nightine) and deep understanding iof the area. Every few years soneone dies within mile of me, it seems. If i don’t kniw the water well, i don’t go over it unless with some one that does. We (group) all wear ice picks. Not many ways to ride here without going over sone frozen water.

[Matt]

used to hate crossing unfamiliar lakes at night, especially when there's a cold crosswind.  Even my own lake that I know like the back of my hand, I've ended up in some very different locations than I thought I was pointed a couple times.

[Mainecat]

Rangeley club has been doing this for many years. They will never say the lakes are safe.

[EvilBird]

Listened to it today....they have been talking about it for years ...people will ride right by the signs and be "on their own" and they know this but at least they are off the hook from getting sued I guess...with sue happy snowflakes and lawyers its the world we live in..

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by EvilBird

[Zambroski]

Sounds reasonable.  If you want to cross the lakes, it’s at your own risk. Personally, I always thought it was this way so, I guess it doesn’t matter much.  People will simply roll right past the “trail ends here sign” and do what they’ve been doing for decades.

 

[Doug]

Trails around home have been like that for years.  Mark it to the lakes or rivers and a trail end sign.  The one lake by us is a large shallow lake that can change with cracks and shoves over night.  The local fishing clubs are constantly checking the ice conditions/ roads for shoves and cracks and moving the bridges and Christmas trees marking the roads sometimes daily.

[snopro31]

local club runs the groomer over rivers, swamps and lakes.  haven't dropped one through a lake yet.

[Rod]

31 minutes ago, snopro31 said:

local club runs the groomer over rivers, swamps and lakes.  haven't dropped one through a lake yet.

Yeah. Americans are idiots though 

[X2700]

Half the trails in sawyer county seem to be on lakes!!!

 

[Ez ryder]

1 hour ago, snopro31 said:

local club runs the groomer over rivers, swamps and lakes.  haven't dropped one through a lake yet.

Really over lakes ? We do swamps but we also argo the shit out of them in the fall and let sleds drive down ice before venturing on to the marsh.  As far as rivers we have bridges or use a road bridge.  Sink a Tucker in a lake could get real fucking expensive real fast 

[Doug]

41 minutes ago, X2700 said:

Half the trails in sawyer county seem to be on lakes!!!

 

In vilas county clubs mark the lakes with barrels after checking the ice thickness.  Some clubs may use a UTV with a small drag on the lake but you won't see a full size groomer out there.  Around home we'll turn the groomer around raise the drag and back it up to the edge of the lake then drop the drag and groom out from the lake.

[ckf]

12 hours ago, steve from amherst said:

Last night at the October VAST Board of Directors meeting it was unanimously voted to eliminate any trails crossing frozen bodies of water. The trails that have existed for decades will be removed from the map and trails will be dead ended near the frozen bodies of water for local access.

From this point moving forward trails will now terminate near the frozen bodies of water and any travel past the end of the trail will be at the snowmobilers own risk.

What does this mean for you as a snowmobiler in our area? Any use of Lake Memphremagog or Derby Pond to access the trails in Orleans County or for ice fishing purposes will be at your own risk. You will be leaving the VAST trail system once you pass the sign “VAST Trail Ends Here”. VAST will not be liable for any incidents happening on the ice.

This solution was a compromise between our clubs, the county, and VAST. If not for the persistence of our clubs and the other clubs in this county, trails leading to frozen bodies of water would have been eliminated years ago. This would have meant no access to many parts of the county during low snow conditions and anyone living near a lake would have no access to the system.

There are many involved in VAST governance who had no problem stripping us of our rights to access the trails from our local frozen bodies of water. Many of our members live along these beautiful lakes and expect access to the trails when they feel it is safe to do so.

This vote was an example of the power of our voices being heard. Our members wanted to retain our traditional right to cross our local lakes and for now, we still can.

For those unfamiliar with local ice conditions, trails around Lake Memphremagog will be renumbered to provide a contiguous Trail 105 traversing the county from West to East without having to leave the VAST trail system.

Again, this was the result of many many meetings, some with local legislators, in which your local volunteers attended to keep our Vermont traditions alive. Thank you to all who helped with this and thank you to the VAST Trails Committee and Long Range Planning Committee for your work and patience on this.

Roger Gosselin

President, Orleans County Snowmobile Assn

VAST Orleans County Directo

Brighton snowmobile did this a few years ago in IP.

[X2700]

Only one lake I know of in sawyer county that gets groomed and that is whitefish lake.

they have small drag they pull behind sled.

[Highmark]

Doesn't surprise me...I'd expect more clubs to go about it in this manner.   

[Highmark]

9 hours ago, Doug said:

In vilas county clubs mark the lakes with barrels after checking the ice thickness.  Some clubs may use a UTV with a small drag on the lake but you won't see a full size groomer out there.  Around home we'll turn the groomer around raise the drag and back it up to the edge of the lake then drop the drag and groom out from the lake.

Yep however even when marked they still say stay on trail near barrels and you are at your own risk.   It would be difficult for BoBoen not to mark the trails on the lakes with as much as they use them. 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Highmark

[old indy]

15 hours ago, Mainecat said:

Rangeley club has been doing this for many years. They will never say the lakes are safe.

They HAD to do that only after being sued nearly into non existence by assholes that were riding before ANY trails were open.  ive spent enough time with Larry Koob to have heard the reasons.  

Edited October 27, 2021 by old indy

[Angry ginger]

16 hours ago, s pump said:

Quebec did something similar several years ago. Eliminates the liability for someone riding off into the water. Rangeley Lake has ice heaves the size of a shed that people hit every season but they won't mark them due to liability if they mark those and not other hazards. 

YUp, it's really the smarter thing to do from a liability perspective.  I am impressed that long pond and the kineo crossing stake lines are still there.  

[racer254]

28 minutes ago, old indy said:

They HAD to do that only after being sued nearly into non existence by assholes that were riding before ANY trails were open.  ive spent enough time with Larry Koob to have heard the reasons.  

I was just wondering why this was an issue until I read this.

I have NEVER heard of anyone trying to sue the snowmobile clubs or state over something like this personally.

[1jkw]

9 minutes ago, racer254 said:

I was just wondering why this was an issue until I read this.

I have NEVER heard of anyone trying to sue the snowmobile clubs or state over something like this personally.

The friend I ride with most of the time had a guy ride with us 1 day, we spent about 45 minutes jumping these terraces that are off the marked trail, a year or 2 later that guy went back and got busted up jumping them and sued the club, takes all kinds I guess.

[old indy]

25 minutes ago, Angry ginger said:

YUp, it's really the smarter thing to do from a liability perspective.  I am impressed that long pond and the kineo crossing stake lines are still there.  

i kinda figured they would find another way around after the last dunking the groomer took.  

16 minutes ago, racer254 said:

I was just wondering why this was an issue until I read this.

I have NEVER heard of anyone trying to sue the snowmobile clubs or state over something like this personally.

yup   this day in age there are a lot of asshole around that wont accept the fact, we are responsible for our own actions.  the RLSC has been HUGE in keeping sledding alive in western Maine. the suits all but killed the club.   

Edited October 27, 2021 by old indy

[Angry ginger]

2 hours ago, old indy said:

i kinda figured they would find another way around after the last dunking the groomer took.  

yup   this day in age there are a lot of asshole around that wont accept the fact, we are responsible for our own actions.  the RLSC has been HUGE in keeping sledding alive in western Maine. the suits all but killed the club.   

i don't think they are taking the groomer across much anymore.  now that there is 2 sides to the trail to parlin they were using that machine down there and the jackman machine picks up the long pond loop at least the last year i rode up there.  .  

[Mag6240]

I'll be honest, if there is a way to go around a lake on land, I do it.  

I'm not really a big fan of lake riding, unless there is no other way.  And if that's the case, there better be a hundred sled tracks that have gone across and packed it all down for me!   Yeah, I'm a bit chicken shit of ice.....

[Angry ginger]

I almost killed my son, hit open water at night aiming for the wrong light on the shore,  gunned it then got tossed hitting the ridge on the other side.    fortunately we both ended up out of the drink,  if he got tossed in being dark not sure i'd have been able to find him.  

Now i only go at night when i have GPS tracks.