Do we have too much crop land?

[Plissken]

It sounds like we currently utilize way more land for agriculture than we really need to.  

More plant-based diets tend to need less cropland

If we would shift towards a more plant-based diet we don’t only need less agricultural land overall, we also need less cropland. This might go against our intuition: if we substitute beans, peas, tofu and cereals for meat and dairy, surely we would need more cropland to grow them?

Let’s look at why this is not the case. In the chart here we see the amount of agricultural land the world would need to provide food for everyone. This comes from the work of Joseph Poore and Thomas Nemecek, the largest meta-analysis of global food systems to date.⁴ The top bar shows the current land use based on the global average diet in 2010. 

As we see, almost three-quarters of this land is used as pasture, the remaining quarter is cropland.⁵ If we combine pastures and cropland for animal feed, around 80% of all agricultural land is used for meat and dairy production.

This has a large impact on how land requirements change as we shift towards a more plant-based diet. If the world population ate less meat and dairy we would be eating more crops. The consequence – as the following bar chart shows – would be that the ‘human food’ component of cropland would increase while the land area used for animal feed would shrink.⁶

In the hypothetical scenario in which the entire world adopted a vegan diet the researchers estimate that our total agricultural land use would shrink from 4.1 billion hectares to 1 billion hectares. A reduction of 75%. That’s equal to an area the size of North America and Brazil combined.

But importantly large land use reductions would be possible even without a fully vegan diet. Cutting out beef, mutton and dairy makes the biggest difference to agricultural land use as it would free up the land that is used for pastures. But it’s not just pasture; it also reduces the amount of cropland we need.

This is an important insight from this research: cutting out beef and dairy (by substituting chicken, eggs, fish or plant-based food) has a much larger impact than eliminating chicken or fish.

https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by Plissken

[Mainecat]

Hydroponics is huge now.

https://spoonuniversity.com/place/year-round-hydroponic-farmers-change-how-boston-eats-locally

Edited June 10, 2023 by Mainecat

[Skidooski]

Every time I hear the word hydroponics my mind goes back about 30 years to the good old days  

[steve from amherst]

Cropland is open land and we need open land. 

[Snake]

Fuck plant based diets.

[Rigid1]

16 hours ago, steve from amherst said:

Cropland is open land and we need open land. 

That where the solar farms are settling up

[Snake]

3 minutes ago, Rigid1 said:

That where the solar farms are settling up

The freakshows here put panels in the highway cloverleafs....

[ArcticCrusher]

7 minutes ago, Rigid1 said:

That where the solar farms are settling up

Thr brainwashing is strong here.

 

[Steve753]

8 minutes ago, Snake said:

The freakshows here put panels in the highway cloverleafs....

Solar has its place. I'm getting a solar panel system for my vacation home installed. I would never go completely off grid though.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Steve753

[Snake]

1 minute ago, Steve753 said:

Solar has its place. I'm getting a solar panel system for my vacation home installed. I would never go completely off grid though.

I'm not saying otherwise. My off grid camp is 100% solar.

I'm not trying to shove it down anyone's throat nor am I calling it a be all end all.

Sad as fuck to see acre upon acre of former farmland turned into a sea of glass and metal....

[Steve753]

3 minutes ago, Snake said:

I'm not saying otherwise. My off grid camp is 100% solar.

I'm not trying to shove it down anyone's throat nor am I calling it a be all end all.

Sad as fuck to see acre upon acre of former farmland turned into a sea of glass and metal....

Nor do I.

I honestly can't blame farmers for selling out. Prices for equipment have become ludicrous. You can not start up a farm from scratch anymore unless you're a millionaire many times over, and even then it's a money losing venture most times.

[racinfarmer]

The world population is on track to be at 9 billion people by 2037 and 10 billion by 2058, per the NYT.

Is it wise of us to be burying our crop land under solar panels?

[favoritos]

It seem utterly ridiculous to cover "prime" farmland with solar panels.

In our area there is a 540 acre solar farm on what was pretty sweet farm land.  A quarter adjacent to the glass reflector farm, sold last year at a record price for a reason.  The land is productive and some of the best in the area.

Sadly, the big power decision makers think that the area is a good spot to build more glass reflectors and backup generation/storage in the same area.  Their reasoning is that it makes sense to keep building because they already have a big glass farm right there.

I'm not against solar and wind.  I'm against building it on prime farm land.  Once they start, there is no turning back.  Another down side to the renewable generation is all the infrastructure they require.  The generation is low density per unit of land which makes it require a lot more land.  That also means a lot more power lines to interconnect the low density power generation.  Big power plants get by with a big set of power lines from generation to city centers.  The city folks don't care where the power comes from as long as their knick knacks and do dads work.  They might care a little more when it's hard to buy food.

I can tell you from the history of what has already happened, prime farmland is going to continue disappearing fast if we don't change.

Hydroponics are not the solution in their current form.  They are energy intensive food production that is also expensive.  If we think those are the answer, we are in for a tough dose of reality.

Build the solar and wind out where the best crop is weeds and random cowpies.  The population is low density, and the land is cheap.  We could even provide some actual work for people living in those areas.

[spin_dry]

With Monsanto creating more Frankenstein seeds=bigger yields=less needed farmland=more cancers and health issues. 

[BOHICA]

Why not let farmers decide on what to grow on their land wether it be crops, electricity or housing tracks?  It is the farmers land.

Edited June 11, 2023 by BOHICA

[steve from amherst]

5 hours ago, Snake said:

I'm not saying otherwise. My off grid camp is 100% solar.

I'm not trying to shove it down anyone's throat nor am I calling it a be all end all.

Sad as fuck to see acre upon acre of former farmland turned into a sea of glass and metal....

it is

[steve from amherst]

3 hours ago, racinfarmer said:

The world population is on track to be at 9 billion people by 2037 and 10 billion by 2058, per the NYT.

Is it wise of us to be burying our crop land under solar panels?

no

[steve from amherst]

3 hours ago, favoritos said:

 

Build the solar and wind out where the best crop is weeds and random cowpies.  The population is low density, and the land is cheap.  We could even provide some actual work for people living in those areas.

Build it where it is needed , on the rooftops of apartment buildings. How much solar power is lost thru transmission?

[Plissken]

5 hours ago, ArcticCrusher said:

Thr brainwashing is strong here.

 

Animal product consumption has caused more heart disease, diabetes and cancer than vaccines.  
 

Red meats are classified as group 2A carcinogenic and processed meats are group 1 carcinogenic, the same classification as cigarettes.  
 

Red meat in this context refers to any muscle meat from a mammal, including:

• Beef
• Boar
• Elk
• Goat
• Horse
• Lamb
• Mutton
• Pork
• Veal

Processed meats include the following:

• Bacon
• Canned meat
• Chicken nuggets
• Corned beef
• Deli meats such as salami.
• Ham
• Hot dogs
• Beef Jerky (or others made from red meat)
• Lunch meat
• Meat-based sauces
• Pâtés
• Pepperoni
• Salami
• Sausages
• Sliced luncheon meats

[steve from amherst]

10 minutes ago, Plissken said:

Animal product consumption has caused more heart disease, diabetes and cancer than vaccines.  
 

Red meats are classified as group 2A carcinogenic and processed meats are group 1 carcinogenic, the same classification as cigarettes.  
 

Red meat in this context refers to any muscle meat from a mammal, including:

• Beef
• Boar
• Elk
• Goat
• Horse
• Lamb
• Mutton
• Pork
• Veal

Processed meats include the following:

• Bacon
• Canned meat
• Chicken nuggets
• Corned beef
• Deli meats such as salami.
• Ham
• Hot dogs
• Beef Jerky (or others made from red meat)
• Lunch meat
• Meat-based sauces
• Pâtés
• Pepperoni
• Salami
• Sausages
• Sliced luncheon meats

Are you a vegan ?

[Plissken]

1 minute ago, steve from amherst said:

Are you a vegan ?

No, and honestly I don’t see myself qualifying as fully vegan ever because they treat it too much like a religion for me.  For example they don’t consider the impossible whopper as vegan because it was tested on animals, never mind the fact that it is indeed fully free of animal products, including the bun.  I’ve cut out all meat consumption though.  My next hurdle will be elimination of dairy products which is especially tough because there is a chemical withdrawal due to the opioid like response we get from casein proteins such as those found in cheese.  Takes about 60 days to fully adjust.  

[racinfarmer]

1 hour ago, Plissken said:

No, and honestly I don’t see myself qualifying as fully vegan ever because they treat it too much like a religion for me.  For example they don’t consider the impossible whopper as vegan because it was tested on animals, never mind the fact that it is indeed fully free of animal products, including the bun.  I’ve cut out all meat consumption though.  My next hurdle will be elimination of dairy products which is especially tough because there is a chemical withdrawal due to the opioid like response we get from casein proteins such as those found in cheese.  Takes about 60 days to fully adjust.  

Any particular reason for the diet change?

I'm starting to make changes.

Starting off with knocking off the daily morning Red Bull and donut, or double of each when on the road.  Cutting back on the booze too, which really wasn't out of the world to begin with. 

Already feel better, sleep better, and don't have heartburn at night anymore.

[Snake]

I'll take 'questions I would never have thought to ask were I not told to ask them' for $1,000 Wink....

[Plissken]

17 minutes ago, racinfarmer said:

Any particular reason for the diet change?

I'm starting to make changes.

Starting off with knocking off the daily morning Red Bull and donut, or double of each when on the road.  Cutting back on the booze too, which really wasn't out of the world to begin with. 

Already feel better, sleep better, and don't have heartburn at night anymore.

My wife started working with a plant based coach and I basically just wanted to support her at first, she is pre-diabetic or at least was.  Then the more I learned and seeing the benefits I was getting in feeling like I had more energy and way better blood work has kinda spurred me to pursue it further.  I was never a huge meat eater but had an overall shitty diet consisting of a lot of candy and refined carbs.  You could be vegan and still have a trash diet, for example Oreos are vegan.  The trick for good health which is our priority,  is to primarily eat whole food plant based and as much variety as possible.  I got pretty creative for a while and sort of invented a few nasty specialties that I think I’m the only one to ever think of.  For instance, I was trying to focus on getting a lot of high fiber fermented foods to build my gut flora and made these kimchi, mango, V8 juice, turmeric, ginger, and cinnamon smoothies, sometimes with tobasco as well.  I didn’t really mind them but wife couldn’t be in the same room when I made them cause the smell.  I’ve got a recipe for green smoothie that’s actually pretty good though which is 1/4 cup water, half lemon freshly squeezed, 1/4 cup raw cashews, 2 tbsp maple syrup, 4 cups baby spinach (kinda hard to measure but use more than you think), and one whole green apple, optionally add a splash of apple cider vinegar.  

Edited June 11, 2023 by Plissken

[DriftBusta]

This whole movement to eliminate meat is a non starter.  You want to cut it out of your diet, knock yourself out.  There are more agenda driven globalists who don't think we can grow or produce enough food to feed the planet.  So no, we don't have too much crop land, we don't have enough crop land imo.