Tommcat Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 9 hours ago, Sled_Hed said: At least I didn't say Walbro Walbros and Tillys actually work really well when working correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sled_Hed Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 12 minutes ago, Tommcat said: Walbros and Tillys actually work really well when working correctly. I agree, although I've had more Tilly's than walbros. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 5 hours ago, Deephaven said: Worrying about color? If it looks like shit everyone should worry. Track choice sucks on the sno pro They had to have something nice to say That wasn't the only thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palu49 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 I didn’t take any pictures but I went to Snofest in old forge yesterday for the better part of the day. The arctic cat sleds on display were covered in mud and dirt not even so much as wiped down. I know all the reps that were there so I asked them if they’ve ever heard of quick detailer but none seemed to care. The G8 display unit stopped working and they had to pull a hood off another sled to get it going again because someone tried to connect their phone to it in display mode. The G8 is a very nice screen if that’s what you’re into the only thing I would add to it is the ability to split screen maps and gauges together. (I’m sure Jim will say something about it being pre production) The biggest most concerning take away is how dismissive the reps and marketing people are towards consumers wants and needs for a snowmobile. I tried having a serious conversation with them about stiffening up the seat foam in the front and was told there is aftermarket options out there and they hadn’t heard many complaints (LOL). It starts from the bottom and needs to work its way to the higher ups in TRF but that can’t happen if the people talking to consumers aren’t willing to listen to them. The ZR 9000 RR they had on display was also not even the same color as it is online. Cat needs to get their shit together or let Argo buy them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 3 hours ago, Palu49 said: I didn’t take any pictures but I went to Snofest in old forge yesterday for the better part of the day. The arctic cat sleds on display were covered in mud and dirt not even so much as wiped down. I know all the reps that were there so I asked them if they’ve ever heard of quick detailer but none seemed to care. The G8 display unit stopped working and they had to pull a hood off another sled to get it going again because someone tried to connect their phone to it in display mode. The G8 is a very nice screen if that’s what you’re into the only thing I would add to it is the ability to split screen maps and gauges together. (I’m sure Jim will say something about it being pre production) The biggest most concerning take away is how dismissive the reps and marketing people are towards consumers wants and needs for a snowmobile. I tried having a serious conversation with them about stiffening up the seat foam in the front and was told there is aftermarket options out there and they hadn’t heard many complaints (LOL). It starts from the bottom and needs to work its way to the higher ups in TRF but that can’t happen if the people talking to consumers aren’t willing to listen to them. The ZR 9000 RR they had on display was also not even the same color as it is online. Cat needs to get their shit together or let Argo buy them Maybe they didn't like something about you? Seat foam is something that every person will have a different opinion of. They aren't going to go back and switch foams because of what one guy said to them. Are you that self centered where you think they should? I can guarantee you some people will think is too soft, some will think it's too firm, some will think it's too skinny, some think too fat, etc etc. As long as that is the case they're not going to care what one person comes up to them and says about it. Those people are there to give info to consumers, it's a one way info path. They don't care what infinite wisdom Joe Blow off the street has to say. If they want the feedback they'll do surveys and monitor things online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palu49 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 27 minutes ago, mnstang said: Maybe they didn't like something about you? Seat foam is something that every person will have a different opinion of. They aren't going to go back and switch foams because of what one guy said to them. Are you that self centered where you think they should? I can guarantee you some people will think is too soft, some will think it's too firm, some will think it's too skinny, some think too fat, etc etc. As long as that is the case they're not going to care what one person comes up to them and says about it. Those people are there to give info to consumers, it's a one way info path. They don't care what infinite wisdom Joe Blow off the street has to say. If they want the feedback they'll do surveys and monitor things online. Did Jim get into your account? If it’s a one way information flow they’re doing it wrong. There was plenty of people there with comments and suggestions based off their experiences and most of them are saying the same things. They’re the first line to a giant flow of consumer information, there’s sleds there you can show them what you’re talking about on. Nobody isn’t gonna think a seat is too firm where you can push the fucking thing to the tank with one finger. The number one selling MY25 sled will be considered a collectors item in 15 years based on production numbers so l’d say yea cat needs to listen to some of what their consumers, dealers and mechanics at the shows have to say. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripleflipper Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 1 hour ago, mnstang said: Maybe they didn't like something about you? Seat foam is something that every person will have a different opinion of. They aren't going to go back and switch foams because of what one guy said to them. Are you that self centered where you think they should? I can guarantee you some people will think is too soft, some will think it's too firm, some will think it's too skinny, some think too fat, etc etc. As long as that is the case they're not going to care what one person comes up to them and says about it. Those people are there to give info to consumers, it's a one way info path. They don't care what infinite wisdom Joe Blow off the street has to say. If they want the feedback they'll do surveys and monitor things online. If this is the case, it likely explains part of the reason Cat is struggling to survive. If you don't listen to your customer, and clearly Cat has not for the last 5 years easily, then it's a downward spiral. In my opinion. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palu49 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 21 minutes ago, Tripleflipper said: If this is the case, it likely explains part of the reason Cat is struggling to survive. If you don't listen to your customer, and clearly Cat has not for the last 5 years easily, then it's a downward spiral. In my opinion. Imagine being a diehard brand guy and defending them for flushing themselves down the toilet? I don’t get it 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krom Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 1 hour ago, mnstang said: Maybe they didn't like something about you? Seat foam is something that every person will have a different opinion of. They aren't going to go back and switch foams because of what one guy said to them. Are you that self centered where you think they should? I can guarantee you some people will think is too soft, some will think it's too firm, some will think it's too skinny, some think too fat, etc etc. As long as that is the case they're not going to care what one person comes up to them and says about it. Those people are there to give info to consumers, it's a one way info path. They don't care what infinite wisdom Joe Blow off the street has to say. If they want the feedback they'll do surveys and monitor things online. If they listened to the comments from people at the shows, and online, they would already know about the seat foam, and clutching, acknowledge the issues, and at least lie and say "we're looking into it" As those are the 2 biggest things spoken about on catalyst pages.. Edited March 10 by krom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat45 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 36 minutes ago, krom said: If they listened to the comments from people at the shows, and online, they would already know about the seat foam, and clutching, acknowledge the issues, and at least lie and say "we're looking into it" As those are the 2 biggest things spoken about on catalyst pages.. It's almost like they just don't care.....definitely not the reps like the old days that would actually listen. I'm betting most Aren't even from the industry, probly just another job for them on their way to bigger better things 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Kinda like people begging for a twin rail mountain sled option and Cat just straight up refusing to do it. It boggles the mind. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 7 hours ago, Palu49 said: I didn’t take any pictures but I went to Snofest in old forge yesterday for the better part of the day. The arctic cat sleds on display were covered in mud and dirt not even so much as wiped down. I know all the reps that were there so I asked them if they’ve ever heard of quick detailer but none seemed to care. The G8 display unit stopped working and they had to pull a hood off another sled to get it going again because someone tried to connect their phone to it in display mode. The G8 is a very nice screen if that’s what you’re into the only thing I would add to it is the ability to split screen maps and gauges together. (I’m sure Jim will say something about it being pre production) The biggest most concerning take away is how dismissive the reps and marketing people are towards consumers wants and needs for a snowmobile. I tried having a serious conversation with them about stiffening up the seat foam in the front and was told there is aftermarket options out there and they hadn’t heard many complaints (LOL). It starts from the bottom and needs to work its way to the higher ups in TRF but that can’t happen if the people talking to consumers aren’t willing to listen to them. idk where they find those people... probably recent marketing grads that don't ride. I bet @Not greg b knows. 2 hours ago, krom said: If they listened to the comments from people at the shows, and online, they would already know about the seat foam, and clutching, acknowledge the issues, and at least lie and say "we're looking into it" As those are the 2 biggest things spoken about on catalyst pages.. maybe @Palu49 should have grabbed their business cards and emailed them all links to this thread. 1 hour ago, Premium said: Kinda like people begging for a twin rail mountain sled option and Cat just straight up refusing to do it. It boggles the mind. makes no difference to me personally... but yeah, offer a 146 or 155 in a twin rail as even I've heard and seen people mention it and I could give two fucks about off trail/mountain sleds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palu49 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 2 hours ago, Premium said: Kinda like people begging for a twin rail mountain sled option and Cat just straight up refusing to do it. It boggles the mind. There’s only 50 “I’m keeping my Khaos until there’s a twin rail M option“ comments on every cat social media post….. 22 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said: idk where they find those people... probably recent marketing grads that don't ride. I bet @Not greg b knows. maybe @Palu49 should have grabbed their business cards and emailed them all links to this thread. makes no difference to me personally... but yeah, offer a 146 or 155 in a twin rail as even I've heard and seen people mention it and I could give two fucks about off trail/mountain sleds. I’m social media friends with 2 of the reps and know one of them pretty well. The one I know pretty well doesn’t ask my opinion anymore after I lit into him about how janky the dealer installed G8 makes cat look. 2 of the 3 reps there were involved in east coast snocross back in the day I know of for sure and they all ride. Problem is they all tow the company line when it comes to excuses for issues or dumb decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krom Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 51 minutes ago, Palu49 said: There’s only 50 “I’m keeping my Khaos until there’s a twin rail M option“ comments on every cat social media post….. I’m social media friends with 2 of the reps and know one of them pretty well. The one I know pretty well doesn’t ask my opinion anymore after I lit into him about how janky the dealer installed G8 makes cat look. 2 of the 3 reps there were involved in east coast snocross back in the day I know of for sure and they all ride. Problem is they all tow the company line when it comes to excuses for issues or dumb decisions. assuming that the new last year regional manager ignores you too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 6 hours ago, Tripleflipper said: If this is the case, it likely explains part of the reason Cat is struggling to survive. If you don't listen to your customer, and clearly Cat has not for the last 5 years easily, then it's a downward spiral. In my opinion. They listen to customers. The catalyst itself is proof of that. They don't entirely change a snowmobile based off one narcissistic guy whining at a show thing. 6 hours ago, Palu49 said: Imagine being a diehard brand guy and defending them for flushing themselves down the toilet? I don’t get it Yep they are tanking themselves, the #1 talked about snowmobile for 18 months. You people have been saying this about cat forever, and yet here they are. 5 hours ago, krom said: If they listened to the comments from people at the shows, and online, they would already know about the seat foam, and clutching, acknowledge the issues, and at least lie and say "we're looking into it" As those are the 2 biggest things spoken about on catalyst pages.. This site is the only place I hear people crying about clutching. All 3 people. I have yet to hear anyone say the seat is too soft. I have seen numerous posts on FB from older guys complaining that the seat is too hard and hurts their butt. But let me guess, you guys want them to make only the changes that you personally want. All the snowmobile media has not said anything about clutching or the seat... In fact it's the exact opposite, they say the engine is awesome and it feels incredibly good for a 600. Psst, that includes clutching. They also say best seating position/ergos/rider triangle in the industry. Psst this includes the SEAT. You guys should get a life, if cat is so bad why do you own them or care about them? Some people are just miserable AF and that is you guys. Just live to bitch. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palu49 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, mnstang said: They listen to customers. The catalyst itself is proof of that. They don't entirely change a snowmobile based off one narcissistic guy whining at a show thing. Yep they are tanking themselves, the #1 talked about snowmobile for 18 months. You people have been saying this about cat forever, and yet here they are. This site is the only place I hear people crying about clutching. All 3 people. I have yet to hear anyone say the seat is too soft. I have seen numerous posts on FB from older guys complaining that the seat is too hard and hurts their butt. But let me guess, you guys want them to make only the changes that you personally want. All the snowmobile media has not said anything about clutching or the seat... In fact it's the exact opposite, they say the engine is awesome and it feels incredibly good for a 600. Psst, that includes clutching. They also say best seating position/ergos/rider triangle in the industry. Psst this includes the SEAT. You guys should get a life, if cat is so bad why do you own them or care about them? Some people are just miserable AF and that is you guys. Just live to bitch. The catalyst proves that 8 years late and hastily thrown together in all reality? It’s a good starting point for a new machine for sure but it can still use some tweaks and the people out riding them (after they bought them) can give that info back to cat. The first year of the matryx XCR polaris listens to the consumer and put stiffer springs and valving in them. Thats how product development works. The number one talked about snowmobile for 18 months and they can’t convert it to the sales numbers they need. Everyone has said the 600 feels great to the low 80s then it stops. People say the seat is too hard and hurts their ass but they don’t realize they’re squishing the foam out and the tank is hurting their ass, I can make a demonstration video if you want. The Polaris seat foam is WAYYYY harder than the catalyst foam yet nobody complains about that. Yes the ergos are what I would consider best in the business but that doesn’t mean there’s no room for improvement, they need to listen to the consumer before there’s no consumer left for them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR6000RR Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 42 minutes ago, Palu49 said: The catalyst proves that 8 years late and hastily thrown together in all reality? It’s a good starting point for a new machine for sure but it can still use some tweaks and the people out riding them (after they bought them) can give that info back to cat. The first year of the matryx XCR polaris listens to the consumer and put stiffer springs and valving in them. Thats how product development works. The number one talked about snowmobile for 18 months and they can’t convert it to the sales numbers they need. Everyone has said the 600 feels great to the low 80s then it stops. People say the seat is too hard and hurts their ass but they don’t realize they’re squishing the foam out and the tank is hurting their ass, I can make a demonstration video if you want. The Polaris seat foam is WAYYYY harder than the catalyst foam yet nobody complains about that. Yes the ergos are what I would consider best in the business but that doesn’t mean there’s no room for improvement, they need to listen to the consumer before there’s no consumer left for them. Fuck you are dumb! The seat is great. Perfect, or excuse me, almost perfect density. You are not sinking to the tank, but you have all the answers. Maybe, they ignore you, because you are in the super minority? I'll hedge that bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krom Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) 18 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said: Fuck you are dumb! The seat is great. Perfect, or excuse me, almost perfect density. You are not sinking to the tank, but you have all the answers. Maybe, they ignore you, because you are in the super minority? I'll hedge that bet. As usual you are wrong, are arguing with someone who has more time/miles on a catalyst, and actually rides the sled the way its intended. Unlike you putting around like old people fuck. Edited March 11 by krom 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palu49 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, ZR6000RR said: Fuck you are dumb! The seat is great. Perfect, or excuse me, almost perfect density. You are not sinking to the tank, but you have all the answers. Maybe, they ignore you, because you are in the super minority? I'll hedge that bet. I put almost 400 miles on this one over this dismal winter. I did it on slush, rock hard hard pack, ice courses, seasonal roads, single track tight twisties. Where is your information coming from? Pay attention to what literally everyone on the Facebook pages are saying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripleflipper Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 10 hours ago, mnstang said: They listen to customers. The catalyst itself is proof of that. They don't entirely change a snowmobile based off one narcissistic guy whining at a show thing. Yep they are tanking themselves, the #1 talked about snowmobile for 18 months. You people have been saying this about cat forever, and yet here they are. This site is the only place I hear people crying about clutching. All 3 people. I have yet to hear anyone say the seat is too soft. I have seen numerous posts on FB from older guys complaining that the seat is too hard and hurts their butt. But let me guess, you guys want them to make only the changes that you personally want. All the snowmobile media has not said anything about clutching or the seat... In fact it's the exact opposite, they say the engine is awesome and it feels incredibly good for a 600. Psst, that includes clutching. They also say best seating position/ergos/rider triangle in the industry. Psst this includes the SEAT. You guys should get a life, if cat is so bad why do you own them or care about them? Some people are just miserable AF and that is you guys. Just live to bitch. 10 hours ago, mnstang said: They listen to customers. The catalyst itself is proof of that. They don't entirely change a snowmobile based off one narcissistic guy whining at a show thing. Yep they are tanking themselves, the #1 talked about snowmobile for 18 months. You people have been saying this about cat forever, and yet here they are. This site is the only place I hear people crying about clutching. All 3 people. I have yet to hear anyone say the seat is too soft. I have seen numerous posts on FB from older guys complaining that the seat is too hard and hurts their butt. But let me guess, you guys want them to make only the changes that you personally want. All the snowmobile media has not said anything about clutching or the seat... In fact it's the exact opposite, they say the engine is awesome and it feels incredibly good for a 600. Psst, that includes clutching. They also say best seating position/ergos/rider triangle in the industry. Psst this includes the SEAT. You guys should get a life, if cat is so bad why do you own them or care about them? Some people are just miserable AF and that is you guys. Just live to bitch. Took far to long to bring to market a sled to compete with Doo and Poo. After reading comments here and other sites this sled was far from hitting it out of the park. This is what Cat needed. They had a chance here to take customer input and were not interested. Yup, that will keep you in business. #1 talked about sled for 18 months, remind me again how many units were sold 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 (edited) On 3/9/2024 at 4:06 PM, Deephaven said: Track choice sucks on the sno pro saw that ... Ripsaw or Ripsaw2 track? odds are you'll be getting the POS Ripsaw again. Right @kromand @Not greg b? clearly Polaris and BRP are getting first dibs from Camso. Rip2 is tolerable but the odds of you getting one seems very low ATM IMO Edit: 137 gets the Rip2 and 129 is the Ripsaw... so that'd be an immediate track swap for me... along with 2:52 drivers and an M gearing change. Edited March 11 by Crnr2Crnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palu49 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 2 hours ago, Tripleflipper said: Took far to long to bring to market a sled to compete with Doo and Poo. After reading comments here and other sites this sled was far from hitting it out of the park. This is what Cat needed. They had a chance here to take customer input and were not interested. Yup, that will keep you in business. #1 talked about sled for 18 months, remind me again how many units were sold 3600 the first year, but people were talking about it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune46x Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 13 hours ago, mnstang said: They listen to customers. The catalyst itself is proof of that. They don't entirely change a snowmobile based off one narcissistic guy whining at a show thing. Yep they are tanking themselves, the #1 talked about snowmobile for 18 months. You people have been saying this about cat forever, and yet here they are. This site is the only place I hear people crying about clutching. All 3 people. I have yet to hear anyone say the seat is too soft. I have seen numerous posts on FB from older guys complaining that the seat is too hard and hurts their butt. But let me guess, you guys want them to make only the changes that you personally want. All the snowmobile media has not said anything about clutching or the seat... In fact it's the exact opposite, they say the engine is awesome and it feels incredibly good for a 600. Psst, that includes clutching. They also say best seating position/ergos/rider triangle in the industry. Psst this includes the SEAT. You guys should get a life, if cat is so bad why do you own them or care about them? Some people are just miserable AF and that is you guys. Just live to bitch. I have had a 22, 23 and a 24 rxc and now I have the 23, 24 that I can ride back to back and I can tell you the 24 is slower than the 23 in bone stock trim. Considering the best mechanics in the industry for cat are scratching their head over the wall problem and are resorting to racing procrosses should tell you alot. 10 hours ago, ZR6000RR said: Fuck you are dumb! The seat is great. Perfect, or excuse me, almost perfect density. You are not sinking to the tank, but you have all the answers. Maybe, they ignore you, because you are in the super minority? I'll hedge that bet. near zero miles and you can tell someone who has more miles on that they're dumb and don't know what they are talking about. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palu49 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 20 minutes ago, fortune46x said: I have had a 22, 23 and a 24 rxc and now I have the 23, 24 that I can ride back to back and I can tell you the 24 is slower than the 23 in bone stock trim. Considering the best mechanics in the industry for cat are scratching their head over the wall problem and are resorting to racing procrosses should tell you alot. near zero miles and you can tell someone who has more miles on that they're dumb and don't know what they are talking about. No, it’s perfect and cat did everything the consumer asked of them even though they shouldn’t have because the consumer doesn’t matter, shut up and buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, Crnr2Crnr said: saw that ... Ripsaw or Ripsaw2 track? odds are you'll be getting the POS Ripsaw again. Right @kromand @Not greg b? clearly Polaris and BRP are getting first dibs from Camso. Rip2 is tolerable but the odds of you getting one seems very low ATM IMO Edit: 137 gets the Rip2 and 129 is the Ripsaw... so that'd be an immediate track swap for me... along with 2:52 drivers and an M gearing change. 136/7 with a 1.75" is what I need. Don't understand why a track option is such a hard thing in particular on a pre-order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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