mnstang Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 47 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said: No it isn't. He and I know how to get in touch. Time for dinner, just finished snowblowing three driveways and drilling a dozen thermostats. Starting my own fix kit business. Drilled stats and Snow Trackers are going to pay for our dogs next vet appointment. Anyone know how tf to get the hood off a Procross? Iron dog? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 1 minute ago, mnstang said: Iron dog? Cocaine Quest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 1 minute ago, Crnr2Crnr said: Cocaine Quest Ah, a chihuahua. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palu49 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 I honestly haven’t had scratchers on a procross yet so I’m surprised at the common agreement that they run warm. The only time I’ve had a light flash was a 10 degree morning after it drizzled rain all day prior. I find on my 19 600 with the ice slipper that you can always get enough track spin just riding a little harder to keep the temps sub-120. My studded up the middle 800s always run around 104-112 (always thought they ran unusually cool because of this) and they’ve all been 137s. I might put scratchers on the 600 because it’s for my girlfriend and she averages about 13mph and would 100% ride through the dummy light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 7 hours ago, Palu49 said: I honestly haven’t had scratchers on a procross yet so I’m surprised at the common agreement that they run warm. The only time I’ve had a light flash was a 10 degree morning after it drizzled rain all day prior. I find on my 19 600 with the ice slipper that you can always get enough track spin just riding a little harder to keep the temps sub-120. My studded up the middle 800s always run around 104-112 (always thought they ran unusually cool because of this) and they’ve all been 137s. I might put scratchers on the 600 because it’s for my girlfriend and she averages about 13mph and would 100% ride through the dummy light. Right. This isn’t rocket surgery. If the snow is flowing behind your sled, they will all stay cool. If it ain’t, they won’t. Scratchers will solve the issue on tough, packed trail days (if studs don’t). If high temps bother you but not as much as installing scratchers, well…..enjoy some higher temps I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat45 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 46 minutes ago, Zambroski said: Right. This isn’t rocket surgery. If the snow is flowing behind your sled, they will all stay cool. If it ain’t, they won’t. Scratchers will solve the issue on tough, packed trail days (if studs don’t). If high temps bother you but not as much as installing scratchers, well…..enjoy some higher temps I guess. There's more to it than that on some sleds. I have 2 scratchers on mine and run hot on hardpack trails all the time. I have a 1.75 track on mine and the snow goes right out under the flap. I've heard the sx flap is longer, going to try that next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 18 minutes ago, Cat45 said: There's more to it than that on some sleds. I have 2 scratchers on mine and run hot on hardpack trails all the time. I have a 1.75 track on mine and the snow goes right out under the flap. I've heard the sx flap is longer, going to try that next SX flap is longer and wider. It’s not even close. I’ve been looking a them for years and now this year, I’ve got a sled with the standard flap. It’s almost cute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat45 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Just now, Zambroski said: SX flap is longer and wider. It’s not even close. I’ve been looking a them for years and now this year, I’ve got a sled with the standard flap. It’s almost worthless Fixed it for ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bontz Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 24 minutes ago, Cat45 said: There's more to it than that on some sleds. I have 2 scratchers on mine and run hot on hardpack trails all the time. I have a 1.75 track on mine and the snow goes right out under the flap. I've heard the sx flap is longer, going to try that next The snow going right under the snow flap is what one of my buddies and I noticed with his wife's ZR800. We couldn't figure out why her sled was running hotter than we were on a particular day, so my buddy asked her to ride in front for a while. Sure enough, he could see the snow going right under the flap vs. into it and figured out she wasn't heavy enough to make the sled squat. The next week, and ever since, she's had scratchers installed. Normally, our thinking was as long as she's following someone (we all have studs) the lead person would be breaking up the snow a little bit to allow the next sled to kick up more snow = better cooling. But she weighs about 110 soaking wet, so not much effect on the suspension of the sled ... she's just a tad lighter than us two!! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 16 minutes ago, Cat45 said: Fixed it for ya Yeah, it’s almost ornamental but, I think it’ll work ok. Did on my RRs. No matter though, duraflex are on the way. Because, the cooler the better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat45 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 4 minutes ago, Bontz said: The snow going right under the snow flap is what one of my buddies and I noticed with his wife's ZR800. We couldn't figure out why her sled was running hotter than we were on a particular day, so my buddy asked her to ride in front for a while. Sure enough, he could see the snow going right under the flap vs. into it and figured out she wasn't heavy enough to make the sled squat. The next week, and ever since, she's had scratchers installed. Normally, our thinking was as long as she's following someone (we all have studs) the lead person would be breaking up the snow a little bit to allow the next sled to kick up more snow = better cooling. But she weighs about 110 soaking wet, so not much effect on the suspension of the sled ... she's just a tad lighter than us two!! LOL I'm plenty heavy, setup with about 3in suspension sag and it still doesnt help. I do think the new flap will solve most of the issues though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 That is what happens on my sled. Granted it's very different being a high country and rarely sees a trail. But same issue, it shoots a giant rooster tail out back but the snowflap doesn't catch any of it. I think that's a lot of the issues, that's what the other guy was saying too with the heavier rider thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 41 minutes ago, Cat45 said: There's more to it than that on some sleds. I have 2 scratchers on mine and run hot on hardpack trails all the time. I have a 1.75 track on mine and the snow goes right out under the flap. I've heard the sx flap is longer, going to try that next I think the longer the lug height you have, it is harder for it to pick the snow up into the tunnel, it just wants to shoot it out the back instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sled_Hed Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 A buddy had an issue with the flap on his indy voyager. He had apparently backed into a snow bank at some point and it was curled some. His sled started having issues not keeping cool and I figured out it was the flap. We tied it back towards the bumper with a nylon strap and it stays cool now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Also, these sleds have to have the reverse element in mind. Hence, shorter flap. Want reverse with a SX flap? Fine, it comes with a snow flap fast removal option. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat45 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 57 minutes ago, mnstang said: I think the longer the lug height you have, it is harder for it to pick the snow up into the tunnel, it just wants to shoot it out the back instead. Yeah it's definitely the case with lug height. How is your high country running on hardpack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 37 minutes ago, Cat45 said: Yeah it's definitely the case with lug height. How is your high country running on hardpack? Extremely bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
favoritos Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 11 hours ago, Palu49 said: I honestly haven’t had scratchers on a procross yet so I’m surprised at the common agreement that they run warm. The only time I’ve had a light flash was a 10 degree morning after it drizzled rain all day prior. I find on my 19 600 with the ice slipper that you can always get enough track spin just riding a little harder to keep the temps sub-120. My studded up the middle 800s always run around 104-112 (always thought they ran unusually cool because of this) and they’ve all been 137s. I might put scratchers on the 600 because it’s for my girlfriend and she averages about 13mph and would 100% ride through the dummy light. They don't all run warm. That's the sucky deal. Some are great and some run hot. We've run 800s with the 137 track for quite a few years. We usually have a bunch around and swap in one or two new each season. The shakedown and break in runs answer cooling questions fast. It's been an inside joke for years, about cooling in these things. Conversations go something like this, "Well, this one's a runner. Sucks, it's hotter than a sumabitch" We'll either figure out cooling or park it, . . . or the fat guys ride it in the hard and fast." "This thing runs like dog city. Temp never went over 109 though. Looks like your skinny ass is riding the thing." Conditions obviously matter most, but some just like to run too hot. Current lineup as a comparison on straight trail with loose groom. The '18 runs temps 103-109. Dog city too. Drinks gas and oil. '20 stays hangs 112-115 temps most of the time. Not bad overall on performance. '21 is damn fast. Temps on straights are all over the board. It can hover around 114, but it turns hot fast when temps start climbing. Have to watch the thing close. Uses less fuel than the '18 and '20. '22 varies temps quite a bit. Never seems to run hot, but goes from 102-125. The sled runs fairly well. It does sip fuel. I mean, it seriously sips fuel.(might be the new primary?) The fuel use is an anomaly with this sled. Had a '19 that ran hot hot hot all the time. Tried a pile of tricks on that friggin sled. Track swap, snow flap, deflectors, clutching, teflon hyfax, and scratchers. Replaced thermostat twice and swapped the water pump assembly. It popped a motor at 2,500 miles too. It ran damn fast and usually took about a gallon less fuel each fill. Loved the performance, but hated the issues. Dumped the sled before it's time. Had a '15 and '17 with issues too. The '15 was manageble. The '17 thing was an oddball. Had two of the '17s running together. One was a runner and sipped fuel. It ran hot and reached overheat fast.(really had to watch temps close even with scratchers.) The other one was good all day. Never put scratchers on that sled. It took a couple bucks extra on each fill. The variation in cooling is just plain unreal. Same sleds, same trail, same snow, and we swap riders back and forth to test what works. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 6 hours ago, mnstang said: That is what happens on my sled. Granted it's very different being a high country and rarely sees a trail. But same issue, it shoots a giant rooster tail out back but the snowflap doesn't catch any of it. I think that's a lot of the issues, that's what the other guy was saying too with the heavier rider thing. Wonder if above and below is part of the reason there were a lot of posts with Riot's burning down last year? I'm sure some were riding in shit conditions, but most were 1.6" lug, and they have a not so special flap. If you can't squat the ass or ride in fresh snow, not good. See pic https://images.app.goo.gl/CabMzzK3mSTKH4xx5 6 hours ago, mnstang said: I think the longer the lug height you have, it is harder for it to pick the snow up into the tunnel, it just wants to shoot it out the back instead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 1 minute ago, Crnr2Crnr said: Wonder if above and below is part of the reason there were a lot of posts with Riot's burning down last year? I'm sure some were riding in shit conditions, but most were 1.6" lug, and they have a not so special flap. If you can't squat the ass or ride in fresh snow, not good. See pic https://images.app.goo.gl/CabMzzK3mSTKH4xx5 Lug flick strikes again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
favoritos Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Running temp really has nothing to do with the stories about the Riot sleds. Most of them had a combination of issues that matched up to create the problem. Their gearing with the screwed up clutching last year put them right in a lean spot on mapping if they were doing trail cruising. The lean spot was there on ZR sleds, but it didn't happen at trail cruising speeds. It would have been a real noisy ride if you rode in the lean rpm range. Those things sounded like the pistons wanted to jump out of the motor if you hung around that range. BTW, I have a couple with the remap done. It woke up those things. The old clanging and banging rpm range is gone too. Some of the half truth and rumor stuff really kills progress. People get focused on the wrong issue. The real problems can fly right by while everybody is talking crap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soeaster Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 1 hour ago, favoritos said: Running temp really has nothing to do with the stories about the Riot sleds. Most of them had a combination of issues that matched up to create the problem. Their gearing with the screwed up clutching last year put them right in a lean spot on mapping if they were doing trail cruising. The lean spot was there on ZR sleds, but it didn't happen at trail cruising speeds. It would have been a real noisy ride if you rode in the lean rpm range. Those things sounded like the pistons wanted to jump out of the motor if you hung around that range. BTW, I have a couple with the remap done. It woke up those things. The old clanging and banging rpm range is gone too. Some of the half truth and rumor stuff really kills progress. People get focused on the wrong issue. The real problems can fly right by while everybody is talking crap. I did the precision tune on my '20. Run quality is far and away better than the stock mapping. It got rid of the 5500-6000 rpm gurgling/clanging problem, but no change in the temp issue. I put scratchers on during my second ride with it. Stopped at Hayward Power Sports and they put 3 sets on for the group I was in. It was COLD and icy, hard packed trails that day. Usually isn't an issue with good snow, but I really hate fixating on the temp. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdels Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 Mine definitely ran about 10 degrees cooler at last of 4 than leading. My riding buddy said the same thing about the snow coming out the back and not hitting the flap. Springs in position 2. I may try the softest setting but, well, gotta go 265 pounds geared up. Flap is about 4 inches off the ground with me on it. Scratchers should be here Monday. I know the 4-strokes have a higher operating temp but how the hell are the T-Cats staying cool? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, jdels said: Mine definitely ran about 10 degrees cooler at last of 4 than leading. My riding buddy said the same thing about the snow coming out the back and not hitting the flap. Springs in position 2. I may try the softest setting but, well, gotta go 265 pounds geared up. Flap is about 4 inches off the ground with me on it. Scratchers should be here Monday. I know the 4-strokes have a higher operating temp but how the hell are the T-Cats staying cool? OTB, that's a damn good ? @Tommcat Looking at the fiche for 2021 the TCat has a different exchanger in the front of the tunnel and the rear than that of the 8000 RR, which is the same as the 6000 LTD. All 137's Edited January 8, 2022 by Crnr2Crnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommcat Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said: OTB, that's a damn good ? @Tommcat Looking at the fiche for 2021 the TCat has a different exchanger in the front of the tunnel and the rear than that of the 8000 RR, which is the same as the 6000 LTD. All 137's magic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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