First two rides on a new to me 2018 ZR8000.  137'' studded down the middle, 2200 miles.  About 15 degree weather both today and yesterday.  Maybe three inches of hardpack on most of the trails.  Struggled yesterday keeping temps below 150.  When I got home I raised the front end about two feet up, warmed up well and added about two cups coolant, thinking air pocket.  Went out again today and same thing.  Unless I dipped into powder frequently, and I mean nearly constant, temps would rise to 160+.  A blast into some powder and temps would drop 25+ which suggests the heat exchangers are functioning well, just no snow getting to them.  Are scratchers a must on these machines?  Any other insight would be helpful.  For reference sake my two kids on Sabercat 500's had no issues, nor did anyone else in my group.  

Thanks.

Edited January 4, 20223 yr by jdels

I've had two Procross 800s and they both were prone to overheating.  My '14 Suzuki and '20 Ctec are both finicky with temps so I put scratchers on them.  Scratchers really do help and have given me peace of mind.  Although I still find myself fixated on the damn temp gauge.  A friend of mine who owns a sled dealer/shop has said for years that manufacturers have built bigger engines but haven't enlarged the heat exchangers to keep up.  I don't know if he's right or not, but that's been my experience.  

I know it sucks, but get some scratchers and then you don't have to worry about it.

Edited January 4, 20223 yr by soeaster

2 minutes ago, soeaster said:

I've had two Procross 800s and they both were prone to overheating.  My '14 Suzuki and '20 Ctec are both finicky with temps so I put scratchers on them.  Scratchers really do help and have given me peace of mind.  Although I still find myself fixated on the damn temp gauge.  A friend of mine who owns a sled dealer/shop has said for years that manufacturers have built bigger engines but haven't enlarged the heat exchangers to keep up.  I don't know if he's right or not, but that's been my experience.  

I know it sucks, but get some scratchers and then you don't have to worry about it.

Thanks for the reply.  Todays ride was not enjoyable.  After 16 years and 10000 plus miles on the F7 it was a bit disappointing.  Can you give me some idea what temps you see with the scratchers, and what brand do you use?  

6 minutes ago, jdels said:

Thanks for the reply.  Todays ride was not enjoyable.  After 16 years and 10000 plus miles on the F7 it was a bit disappointing.  Can you give me some idea what temps you see with the scratchers, and what brand do you use?  

I’ve used scratcher for years but, I tested my last SX with a be without just to see.  I quickly ran 160 degree without them.  Dropped the duraflexes down and temps plummeted to 130 almost immediately.  That’s with a 1.75 track and only 4 gallon coolant capacity.  I don’t plan on running scratchers on my current 1.25.  We’ll see.

6 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

I’ve used scratcher for years but, I tested my last SX with a be without just to see.  I quickly ran 160 degree without them.  Dropped the duraflexes down and temps plummeted to 130 almost immediately.  That’s with a 1.75 track and only 4 gallon coolant capacity.  I don’t plan on running scratchers on my current 1.25.  We’ll see.

I've seen similar temps.  I have the cable type on my '20.  They are ok, but they have a memory and lose their down pressure.  My '14 had the spring type that worked great, but they aren't as durable and you need the kind you can back up with.  I broke a couple of those when forgetting about them while backing up.  Honestly, I hate scratchers and having to think about whether they're up or down or smacking against my rails or not.  But they work.  I currently run a '20 ZR8 with the 1.25 track, and I need them often.  If the snow is powdery though, you should be good to go without them.

1 minute ago, soeaster said:

I've seen similar temps.  I have the cable type on my '20.  They are ok, but they have a memory and lose their down pressure.  My '14 had the spring type that worked great, but they aren't as durable and you need the kind you can back up with.  I broke a couple of those when forgetting about them while backing up.  Honestly, I hate scratchers and having to think about whether they're up or down or smacking against my rails or not.  But they work.  I currently run a '20 ZR8 with the 1.25 track, and I need them often.  If the snow is powdery though, you should be good to go without them.

I just ran my cables down all the time.  No reason to mess with them.  I’ll do the same if I have to go back to them again.  Never had any problem with them losing stiffness but you do have to make sure they are torqued good and don’t turn on you (oops).

Each of my riding buddies with newer Cats have installed scratchers for the exact reason you're experiencing @jdels.  If you don't have scratchers yet, I'd recommend getting a set installed sooner rather than later.  This warmer temps issue has plagued these sleds for several years, and each of them are running typical tracks (1.25") with studs down the middle.  It's amazing how quickly the temperatures will come down once the scratchers are in use.

6 minutes ago, Bontz said:

Each of my riding buddies with newer Cats have installed scratchers for the exact reason you're experiencing @jdels.  If you don't have scratchers yet, I'd recommend getting a set installed sooner rather than later.  This warmer temps issue has plagued these sleds for several years, and each of them are running typical tracks (1.25") with studs down the middle.  It's amazing how quickly the temperatures will come down once the scratchers are in use.

Agreed.

1 hour ago, Zambroski said:

I’ve used scratcher for years but, I tested my last SX with a be without just to see.  I quickly ran 160 degree without them.  Dropped the duraflexes down and temps plummeted to 130 almost immediately.  That’s with a 1.75 track and only 4 gallon coolant capacity.  I don’t plan on running scratchers on my current 1.25.  We’ll see.

Your tempt light will start flashing at 150°F.

Yeah don't be running around 150.  I get anxiety if I start running over 120!  My sled the thermostat seems to open around 100-110 and I like it to stay in that range.

It is stupid but it seems like scratchers are mandatory on these sleds.  They should design some things better.  They just don't get the snow up there or the coolers don't catch the snow, something.  It sucks, never had to look at temp gauges or need scratchers until procross.  There were motors with big power before this chassis and they cooled fine.

My experience was that the 137 was much more prone to running hot than the 129's. No idea why.... 

6 hours ago, mnstang said:

Yeah don't be running around 150.  I get anxiety if I start running over 120!  My sled the thermostat seems to open around 100-110 and I like it to stay in that range.

It is stupid but it seems like scratchers are mandatory on these sleds.  They should design some things better.  They just don't get the snow up there or the coolers don't catch the snow, something.  It sucks, never had to look at temp gauges or need scratchers until procross.  There were motors with big power before this chassis and they cooled fine.

I would agree, 150-155 to 130 with a 50 foot spin in some powder.  Bad design.

 

My 129 had issues too.  We even tossed around the idea of extending the snow flap.  Seems like there's a lot of snow that goes out the back that could instead get circulated up to the cooler.  However, I've noticed a lot of icing up in the tunnel too, especially with my 137.  It can be frustrating for sure.

Did any of you guys have a Firecat?  And if so, do you remember how easily that sled would get hot?  Or maybe it was just the 2003 models, I dunno.  But I remember the first time running with our crew up north, and we were buzzing down a forest road and all of a sudden I see my light flashing at me (I think back then, it was the CEL).  My other buddy on his Firecat was seeing the same thing, yet everyone else on ZR's and Polaris models weren't seeing any issues.  That was really the first experience of having to dive off into snow to keep the sled temps down ... and now days it seems to be the norm for just about all models, unfortunately.

I wish I could ride without being worried about the engine temps, but that's really the only information I focus on.  And I'm pretty fussy about it ... I hate seeing it climb and get into the upper 130's let alone getting any higher.  Some people claim it's harmless, but I know with Polaris fuel management it's dumping fuel like crazy & performance is going downhill fast when temps start to get higher.

Scratchers being mandatory is pretty much the reality of where we're at now.

Rode my Riot down some freshly groomed trails yesterday and was seeing 150-160 with the scratchers down.  Made me nervous.  Kept diving for fresh snow at every opportunity, but there were a lot of trees and stumps to avoid.  I could get the temp down into the 140’s, but it would climb back up as soon as I stayed on the groomed snow for a couple miles. 

I turned onto a trail that had been groomed before New Years and temps went back down to 100-110 for the rest of the ride.  When I got home, I checked for leaks, coolant level looks good, and maybe it’s just the nature of the beast.  I didn’t realize the 137’s would have the same problem.

10 hours ago, mnstang said:

Yeah don't be running around 150.  I get anxiety if I start running over 120!  My sled the thermostat seems to open around 100-110 and I like it to stay in that range.

It is stupid but it seems like scratchers are mandatory on these sleds.  They should design some things better.  They just don't get the snow up there or the coolers don't catch the snow, something.  It sucks, never had to look at temp gauges or need scratchers until procross.  There were motors with big power before this chassis and they cooled fine.

Yeah, agreed.  Anything over 130 and I’m looking for side pow for cooling.  Sustained 150 temps are a recipe for engine pulling.

5 hours ago, Bontz said:

Did any of you guys have a Firecat?  And if so, do you remember how easily that sled would get hot?  Or maybe it was just the 2003 models, I dunno.  But I remember the first time running with our crew up north, and we were buzzing down a forest road and all of a sudden I see my light flashing at me (I think back then, it was the CEL).  My other buddy on his Firecat was seeing the same thing, yet everyone else on ZR's and Polaris models weren't seeing any issues.  That was really the first experience of having to dive off into snow to keep the sled temps down ... and now days it seems to be the norm for just about all models, unfortunately.

I wish I could ride without being worried about the engine temps, but that's really the only information I focus on.  And I'm pretty fussy about it ... I hate seeing it climb and get into the upper 130's let alone getting any higher.  Some people claim it's harmless, but I know with Polaris fuel management it's dumping fuel like crazy & performance is going downhill fast when temps start to get higher.

Scratchers being mandatory is pretty much the reality of where we're at now.

Yep, my brother's 03 F7 would start flashing the instant the snow got thin or one morning we were out and it had rained and frozen in the night and it was constantly getting warm with the crust on the trail. 

7 hours ago, Bontz said:

Did any of you guys have a Firecat?  And if so, do you remember how easily that sled would get hot?  Or maybe it was just the 2003 models, I dunno.  But I remember the first time running with our crew up north, and we were buzzing down a forest road and all of a sudden I see my light flashing at me (I think back then, it was the CEL).  My other buddy on his Firecat was seeing the same thing, yet everyone else on ZR's and Polaris models weren't seeing any issues.  That was really the first experience of having to dive off into snow to keep the sled temps down ... and now days it seems to be the norm for just about all models, unfortunately.

I wish I could ride without being worried about the engine temps, but that's really the only information I focus on.  And I'm pretty fussy about it ... I hate seeing it climb and get into the upper 130's let alone getting any higher.  Some people claim it's harmless, but I know with Polaris fuel management it's dumping fuel like crazy & performance is going downhill fast when temps start to get higher.

Scratchers being mandatory is pretty much the reality of where we're at now.

I never has much trouble with the F7 unless it was ice or plowed roads.  She'd flash once in a while (175 I believe) but I can only remember a solid light (200) a couple times.  I will be riding that machine this weekend unless the scratchers come in by Friday.  Given the sheer population of this chassis and the common problem I am a bit surprised there isn't a better aftermarket solution available other than scratchers.  A bigger or auxiliary heat exchanger would probably be a good seller.  Thanks to all who replied, I appreciate the insight.  

Edited January 4, 20223 yr by jdels

Hmmmm never had an issue with any of my 600 129's. This is one of the reasons i don't want to upgrade to a 137!!!!

My 19 8000rr is terrible even with scratchers. I've been experimenting with rear suspension setup to have a little more sag, it seems to help a little bit but a longer flap might be the best way to go. Has anybody tried a billet head? Supposed to be more cooling capacity but i can't imagine it being enough to drop temps

@Not greg b - Merrill

Tell everyone how you got yours to cure the hot light blues.

Seems a lot of folks are using the Doo scratchers now with success.  There's also hood and side panel venting out there.

Shouldn't be an issue but there's been several complaints since 2018 so something is wrong.

Also, look at how Herfindahls mod sled is ventilated.  Mostly ran on ice and hard pack.

https://www.arcticinsider.com/eye-candy-herfindahls-2022-xc-mod/

 

Leave things to the aftermarket...

https://www.moflowvents.com/arctic-cat 

https://www.startinglineproducts.com/hot-air-eliminationtm-kits-for-2018-arctic-cat-8000-models.html

 

 

Edited January 5, 20223 yr by Crnr2Crnr

10 hours ago, Cat45 said:

My 19 8000rr is terrible even with scratchers. I've been experimenting with rear suspension setup to have a little more sag, it seems to help a little bit but a longer flap might be the best way to go. Has anybody tried a billet head? Supposed to be more cooling capacity but i can't imagine it being enough to drop temps

I ran mine on a snow bank for like an hour or so and that helped. They did change the water pumps on the 20 or 21 I believe. Also is yours a 129 or 137? My other 2 rr were 129 and they never had cooling issues, my 19 137 is terrible. 

7 minutes ago, Not greg b said:

I ran mine on a snow bank for like an hour or so and that helped. They did change the water pumps on the 20 or 21 I believe. Also is yours a 129 or 137? My other 2 rr were 129 and they never had cooling issues, my 19 137 is terrible. 

They list the wp driven shaft, impeller and housing as the same from 2014 to current for 600&800.  There are revised part numbers for the water pump cover and shaft but not the impeller.  Uncertain why but my theory is if the pump was spinning too fast or the cover allowing too much flow the coolant doesn't stay in the cooling loop long enough to properly cool which elevates temps.  The inverse can also occur if the pump and flow is insufficient and the coolant stays on the engine side too long.  Another trick one can do under specific circumstances is to drill a tiny 1/16 bleed hole in the thermostat to assist in low speed cooling. 

Spending a decade in a radiator shop that dealt with everything from lawnmower to locomotive cooling systems, not to mention racing and performance applications taught me a thing or two. 

 

My 2018 always seemed to run warm. I did put tunnel flares on it this year and that seemed to help. Only 90 miles so far but never went over 122. My former 2020 ran cool in all but pure ice. I would drop my scratchers and it would take it down in minutes to 98-110. Waiting patiently for my 2022 6000 RR to show up at my dealer. Supposedly next week.

22 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

They list the wp driven shaft, impeller and housing as the same from 2014 to current for 600&800.  There are revised part numbers for the water pump cover and shaft but not the impeller.  Uncertain why but my theory is if the pump was spinning too fast or the cover allowing too much flow the coolant doesn't stay in the cooling loop long enough to properly cool which elevates temps.  The inverse can also occur if the pump and flow is insufficient and the coolant stays on the engine side too long.  Another trick one can do under specific circumstances is to drill a tiny 1/16 bleed hole in the thermostat to assist in low speed cooling. 

Spending a decade in a radiator shop that dealt with everything from lawnmower to locomotive cooling systems, not to mention racing and performance applications taught me a thing or two. 

 

What is the logic of the hole when you're above tstat opening temps

26 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

They list the wp driven shaft, impeller and housing as the same from 2014 to current for 600&800.  There are revised part numbers for the water pump cover and shaft but not the impeller.  Uncertain why but my theory is if the pump was spinning too fast or the cover allowing too much flow the coolant doesn't stay in the cooling loop long enough to properly cool which elevates temps.  The inverse can also occur if the pump and flow is insufficient and the coolant stays on the engine side too long.  Another trick one can do under specific circumstances is to drill a tiny 1/16 bleed hole in the thermostat to assist in low speed cooling. 

Spending a decade in a radiator shop that dealt with everything from lawnmower to locomotive cooling systems, not to mention racing and performance applications taught me a thing or two. 

 

They should design a device that opens and shuts when designated coolant temperatures are reached.

Hold on a second….

3 minutes ago, mnstang said:

What is the logic of the hole when you're above tstat opening temps

you could have stopped after “hole”.

I think he’s freebasing this morning.