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how many people here or on Fuckbook have seriously spent any real saddle time on one aside from @p51mstg

Catalyst might be the greatest thing since sliced bread, might be wonder bread... or maybe just extremely similar to what's already been out there from other brands who've continued to update their chassis over and over again.  It certainly won't be a moldy old brioche which was what the previous design became. 

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1 hour ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

yeah, but that wouldn't cost $9k or be a big clusterfuck.  :roflcrying:

honestly, I love my little 500 as much or more than the 720

I prefer the smaller displacement sleds far more than big bore paint mixers. It’s too bad the OEM’s went away from 500’s and treat 600’s like poverty sleds. 

1 hour ago, mnstang said:

To call it a me too sled..  not sure what you mean.  Are you so simple minded that you can look at a machine and think you know what's it's like to ride?  The character of the sled.  The handling.  The liveliness the FEELING you get riding it etc? 

If I showed you 6 different brand dirt bikes you'd probably think they're all the same too?  All me too'ing each other.  Although they all have their own traits and cater to all different kinds of riders and the difference is obvious when ridden by anyone who can ride.  Hell they "look" the same as bikes from twenty years ago but I can tell you they are nothing like them to ride, not in any way whatsoever.

I guarantee you without riding any 2024 sled that models from each brand are all very different with their own feel.  Seems you analyze sleds in very simple terms by looking at pictures and can judge it as being the same as another one.  I don't think you have the first clue as to everything that goes into a machine.  Me too sled.. what does that even mean?  What do you think cat should have done differently? --> honest question 

And would Polaris be a me too sled to skidoo?  How did you previously decide on your brand if Polaris and skidoo are the same?

I think we are extremely different and it's important to understand that other riders are probably different from you in ways that you or I can't understand.  Ride whatever you ride.

You guys say anyone who gives counter points to all your people's hatred has green glasses.  You're the one's obsessed with a brand you claim to hate.  Go search how many times I've posted on the Polaris or skidoo forums.  I couldn't care less what they're doing, good, bad, or other.  I think 90% of the haydays people felt the same way from what I could tell!

Hell look at this thread.  There can't be any topic related to cat that doesn't spiral into shit after 5 posts.  It is kind of just like people's hatred obsession for a certain orange man.

Agreed. It’s ridiculous for anyone to pass judgement on a brand new sled that few people have seen in person and far fewer have even ridden. Hopefully Textron finally gets their shit together with production and starts making sleds available to buy. There are plenty of riders wanting to go back to Cat or at least try a different sled. There is always a group of riders who want the latest and greatest, newest sled out there no matter what brand it is. 

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17 minutes ago, AK440 said:

I prefer the smaller displacement sleds far more than big bore paint mixers. It’s too bad the OEM’s went away from 500’s and treat 600’s like poverty sleds. 

you can use 99% of the power of a smaller less powerful engine 79% of the time.  :thumbsup:

using 99% of a big bore 79% of the time would likely kill you. 

 

 

 

 

I just totally made those statistics up.  :)

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, mnstang said:

To call it a me too sled..  not sure what you mean.  Are you so simple minded that you can look at a machine and think you know what's it's like to ride?  The character of the sled.  The handling.  The liveliness the FEELING you get riding it etc? 

If I showed you 6 different brand dirt bikes you'd probably think they're all the same too?  All me too'ing each other.  Although they all have their own traits and cater to all different kinds of riders and the difference is obvious when ridden by anyone who can ride.  Hell they "look" the same as bikes from twenty years ago but I can tell you they are nothing like them to ride, not in any way whatsoever.

I guarantee you without riding any 2024 sled that models from each brand are all very different with their own feel.  Seems you analyze sleds in very simple terms by looking at pictures and can judge it as being the same as another one.  I don't think you have the first clue as to everything that goes into a machine.  Me too sled.. what does that even mean?  What do you think cat should have done differently? --> honest question 

And would Polaris be a me too sled to skidoo?  How did you previously decide on your brand if Polaris and skidoo are the same?

I think we are extremely different and it's important to understand that other riders are probably different from you in ways that you or I can't understand.  Ride whatever you ride.

You guys say anyone who gives counter points to all your people's hatred has green glasses.  You're the one's obsessed with a brand you claim to hate.  Go search how many times I've posted on the Polaris or skidoo forums.  I couldn't care less what they're doing, good, bad, or other.  I think 90% of the haydays people felt the same way from what I could tell!

Hell look at this thread.  There can't be any topic related to cat that doesn't spiral into shit after 5 posts.  It is kind of just like people's hatred obsession for a certain orange man.

You partially made my point for me. If you take your green blinders off, what exactly has Cat done to differentiate the Catalyst in the marketplace that matters to the average consumer? Help me see the light. On paper, it is comparable to Polaris and Ski-Doo. But there's nothing there that really helps the Catalyst stand out. Thus the "Me Too" label. 

Granted, the Catalyst is a huge leap forward for Cat, but there really isn't anything there that screams "I need to have that"- unless you are a diehard Cat guy.  

Will sales improve? Yes. Does it give Cat a fighting chance of getting back its lost customers? Yes. 

It needs to vastly exceed the offerings of Polaris and Ski-Doo if they expect to move the needle in terms of market share. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Ziemann said:

You partially made my point for me. If you take your green blinders off, what exactly has Cat done to differentiate the Catalyst in the marketplace that matters to the average consumer? Help me see the light. On paper, it is comparable to Polaris and Ski-Doo. But there's nothing there that really helps the Catalyst stand out. Thus the "Me Too" label. 

Granted, the Catalyst is a huge leap forward for Cat, but there really isn't anything there that screams "I need to have that"- unless you are a diehard Cat guy.  

Will sales improve? Yes. Does it give Cat a fighting chance of getting back its lost customers? Yes. 

It needs to vastly exceed the offerings of Polaris and Ski-Doo if they expect to move the needle in terms of market share. 

 

looking backwards in time at what you're saying... Cat did that in the past. 

the original ZR's were a raised bar and they earned market share because of it.  when's the last time Cat owned the majority of sales?  but maybe that's the point being made... the 'I don't want to be part of the most popular brand' mentality, which I get and subscribe to at times. 

 

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I'll try and buy one if I can get one, depending on the price. I will however, keep my '20 ZR as a spare even though I'm sure I won't want to ride it after a catalyst. I normally wouldn't buy a first year anything because I've been burned in the past, but I'm due for an upgrade and I'm not QUITE ready to switch brands yet.

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13 hours ago, Ziemann said:

You partially made my point for me. If you take your green blinders off, what exactly has Cat done to differentiate the Catalyst in the marketplace that matters to the average consumer? Help me see the light. On paper, it is comparable to Polaris and Ski-Doo. But there's nothing there that really helps the Catalyst stand out. Thus the "Me Too" label. 

Granted, the Catalyst is a huge leap forward for Cat, but there really isn't anything there that screams "I need to have that"- unless you are a diehard Cat guy.  

Will sales improve? Yes. Does it give Cat a fighting chance of getting back its lost customers? Yes. 

It needs to vastly exceed the offerings of Polaris and Ski-Doo if they expect to move the needle in terms of market share. 

 

Read my post again.

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Well 11% of 160 is 17.6HP.
I could we wrong but I believe thats around the HP the CTEC II 800 made.
Just doing the math, if the CTEC II made 160HP, this would put this 858 around 177HP.
That would be damn impressive as Doo's 850 is rated at 165 and Poo's 850 at 170.

Edited by stinkipinki
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15 minutes ago, stinkipinki said:

Well 11% of 160 is 17.6HP.
I could we wrong but I believe thats around the HP the CTEC II 800 made.
Just doing the math, if the CTEC II made 160HP, this would put this 858 around 177HP.
That would be damn impressive as Doo's 850 is rated at 165 and Poo's 850 at 170.

I think it's more around the 155 mark.  New motor is probably around 170.

Nothing that I care about any of it, a 600 is more than enough if you ride aggressively on fun trails.

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16 hours ago, Ziemann said:

You partially made my point for me. If you take your green blinders off, what exactly has Cat done to differentiate the Catalyst in the marketplace that matters to the average consumer? Help me see the light. On paper, it is comparable to Polaris and Ski-Doo.

 

Cat's new chassis has progressive steering and a belt drive on all sleds including trail sleds.
Those two features alone make the competition look pretty outdated.

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16 hours ago, Ziemann said:

You partially made my point for me. If you take your green blinders off, what exactly has Cat done to differentiate the Catalyst in the marketplace that matters to the average consumer? Help me see the light. On paper, it is comparable to Polaris and Ski-Doo. But there's nothing there that really helps the Catalyst stand out. Thus the "Me Too" label. 

Granted, the Catalyst is a huge leap forward for Cat, but there really isn't anything there that screams "I need to have that"- unless you are a diehard Cat guy.  

Will sales improve? Yes. Does it give Cat a fighting chance of getting back its lost customers? Yes. 

It needs to vastly exceed the offerings of Polaris and Ski-Doo if they expect to move the needle in terms of market share. 

 

Uhhhhhh.....

Can someone please post a comparable pic of a Gen 5 Rev or a Matryx chassis?

engine.jpg

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44 minutes ago, stinkipinki said:

Cat's new chassis has progressive steering and a belt drive on all sleds including trail sleds.
Those two features alone make the competition look pretty outdated.

they already had that otb in the 2008+ SP chassis as well... :pc:

https://www.bosscatlegacy.com/acproto/racing3/2008a.htm

Screenshot_20230913-140206.png

Edited by Crnr2Crnr
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1 hour ago, stinkipinki said:

Well 11% of 160 is 17.6HP.
I could we wrong but I believe thats around the HP the CTEC II 800 made.
Just doing the math, if the CTEC II made 160HP, this would put this 858 around 177HP.
That would be damn impressive as Doo's 850 is rated at 165 and Poo's 850 at 170.

2021 shootout dyno numbers:
AC 800: 155

Doo 850: 162

Poo 840: 167

Plenty of other years posted if you want to look for yourslef

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