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8 hours ago, mnstang said:

Why would you give Suzuki so much credit to build a modern EPA compliant motor?  They never did during the cat partnership.  

Oh yeah because you're just looking to be negative towards cat in any way possible.  Got it.  Carry on with the hate.

You also obviously don't understand how the cat/Suzuki partnership went.  Suzuki manufactured the engines but the design was a direct partnership/colab with cat engineers.

SG: To an outsider, we didn’t know how much of those engines was Arctic Cat vs. Suzuki. Was Suzuki just the manufacturer and Arctic Cat the developer, or isn’t it as simple as that?

GREG SPAULDING: You have to look at it two levels. You have design and you have development. The difference with our new Arctic Cat engines is that we do both of those 100 percent. In the past, we would work jointly with Suzuki on the design. So, for instance, Joey [Hallstrom] in marketing would say, “OK, we need X for a motor – this is what we need because this is what the customer wants.” So that would be the directive, and then we would start communicating with Suzuki to work up a plan to design an engine to meet those parameters.

So we’d work jointly, but Suzuki would do the design. Obviously, they have enough experience to design a motor with the strength and structure, and we were fortunate enough to get to work really closely with them. So then we’d get the design and they would prepare typically six sand-cast prototype engines, and they would ship them here. Then we would develop those engines – develop them in the sense that, is the cylinder port layout correct? The combustion chamber, the piston profile, all the exhaust development, the intake development, the the mounting – that’s all part of the development, because it’s all part of a package. The difference now is, the design portion which we would do jointly with Suzuki, now we do 100 percent here. And then we develop that engine as we did in the past.

https://snowgoer.com/snowmobiles/arctic-cat-sleds/qa-donn-eide-joel-hallstrom-on-arctic-cats-2014-engine-full-article/15018/

the durability was all Suzuki engineering and design.  ever wonder why the Zukes used such unique crank bearings?  that was all Suzuki.  could AC have developed an EPA engine with Suzuki?  of course, but they built an engine plant so that ended that relationship.

Edited by Crnr2Crnr
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9 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

A reliable motor. No one is coming out with bigger engines. Certification is very expensive. You need to pay for tooling before you advance.  Typical DUMB FUCK RESONANCE from a total fucktard.

poo already released their 900

doo has had the 850 for 7 years, you think they haven't been developing a replacement for 5 years or more??!

Impressive that someone as stupid as you can call anyone a dumb fuck:
image.png.a06153ffccaad50a16877fe617f87325.png

Edited by krom
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45 minutes ago, krom said:

poo already released their 900

doo has had the 850 for 7 years, you think they haven't been developing a replacement for 5 years or more??!

Impressive that someone as stupid as you can call anyone a dumb fuck:
image.png.a06153ffccaad50a16877fe617f87325.png

Was going to say the same thing but it's tough arguing with a stump

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10 hours ago, mnstang said:

Why would you give Suzuki so much credit to build a modern EPA compliant motor?  They never did during the cat partnership.  

Oh yeah because you're just looking to be negative towards cat in any way possible.  Got it.  Carry on with the hate.

You also obviously don't understand how the cat/Suzuki partnership went.  Suzuki manufactured the engines but the design was a direct partnership/colab with cat engineers.

You sure have a lot of pent up anger :lol: Suzuki didn't just throw the Cat blueprint into a machine and voila ... the engine was created and sent to TRF.  For a diehard Cat guy, I figured you would know this?

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11 hours ago, Bontz said:

Well it's about f'ing time (and they still won't be doing that for over a year!).  They're only about 5 years late to the party.

Ahhh… but it’s an 858. See, it’s 8 cc’s bigger. The Poo 900 is only available in mountain sleds and the 858 is supposed to have more HP so Cat is right there. Turbo 2-strokes are a very small segment of the market. 

10 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

BRP does, but they have FU$ from selling so many gdamn sleds, and I don't even like BRP products.

 

 

So it’ll be like ovals, Doo will be content racing themselves? As Cat walks away from sno-x there is little incentive for Polaris to stick around. They already get far more marketing exposure and social media traffic selling dipshit bro brahs sleds at a discount so they post selfies on IG. 

 

Look at how much smarter that is with money. Racing has always been about marketing. There is a much larger return on investment with the ambassador program. Why would Cat and soon Poo continue spending far more money on a handful of racers that few people out side of hardcore fans even know about? Why continue developing sno-x sleds that they sell at steep discounts or give away for a dollar when bro brahs will fall all over themselves for a very small discount on a production mountain sled? 

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11 minutes ago, AK440 said:

Ahhh… but it’s an 858. See, it’s 8 cc’s bigger. The Poo 900 is only available in mountain sleds and the 858 is supposed to have more HP so Cat is right there. Turbo 2-strokes are a very small segment of the market. 

So it’ll be like ovals, Doo will be content racing themselves? As Cat walks away from sno-x there is little incentive for Polaris to stick around. They already get far more marketing exposure and social media traffic selling dipshit bro brahs sleds at a discount so they post selfies on IG. 

 

Look at how much smarter that is with money. Racing has always been about marketing. There is a much larger return on investment with the ambassador program. Why would Cat and soon Poo continue spending far more money on a handful of racers that few people out side of hardcore fans even know about? Why continue developing sno-x sleds that they sell at steep discounts or give away for a dollar when bro brahs will fall all over themselves for a very small discount on a production mountain sled? 

isn't the mountain/off trail segment the biggest/hottest market these days?  customer sees 858 or 900... or a Turbo 2S and thinks what?  I hope this new mill is the shit and would assume a turbo variant is in the pipeline... but with Textron, when?  

good questions.  BRP seemingly goes after very specific customers.  they've recently made an effort in XC and have all that Iron Dog experience, but Polaris and Cat still dominate the numbers in COR.  they've absolutely taken over in SX as the dominant brand and machine which gets viewership regardless of your opinion.  in the mountain segment regardless of brand it's 99% social media coverage and marketing so the brand ambassador model obviously works there.  I'll stand by the assertion that racing of all kinds breeds better machines for the consumer.  Hell, if not for Blair Morgan and TH68 we all might still be riding ass draggers.  I guess the next question is... What's next?  What's left to improve?  Is racing still relevant and crucial to new product development?  Apparently BRP seems to think so.  

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39 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

isn't the mountain/off trail segment the biggest/hottest market these days?  customer sees 858 or 900... or a Turbo 2S and thinks what?  I hope this new mill is the shit and would assume a turbo variant is in the pipeline... but with Textron, when?  

good questions.  BRP seemingly goes after very specific customers.  they've recently made an effort in XC and have all that Iron Dog experience, but Polaris and Cat still dominate the numbers in COR.  they've absolutely taken over in SX as the dominant brand and machine which gets viewership regardless of your opinion.  in the mountain segment regardless of brand it's 99% social media coverage and marketing so the brand ambassador model obviously works there.  I'll stand by the assertion that racing of all kinds breeds better machines for the consumer.  Hell, if not for Blair Morgan and TH68 we all might still be riding ass draggers.  I guess the next question is... What's next?  What's left to improve?  Is racing still relevant and crucial to new product development?  Apparently BRP seems to think so.  

TH68 had nothing to do with RF sleds. 

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19 minutes ago, Steve753 said:

TH68 had nothing to do with RF sleds. 

when BM left AC for SD whom do you think helped to continue the development of their SX sleds as a stand up racer along with his father and engineering?  

https://fb.watch/n0erN2lAm9/?mibextid=HSR2mg 

but Blair and SD were first to market... because Pyramid 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

when BM left AC for SD whom do you think helped to continue the development of their SX sleds as a stand up racer along with his father and engineering?  

https://fb.watch/n0erN2lAm9/?mibextid=HSR2mg 

but Blair and SD were first to market... because Pyramid 

 

 

Cats sleds were not RF.

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1 minute ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

they were by the 2008 race season... 9_9

earlier than that even..

The firecat based sx sleds had the rider as far forward as a rev chassis before the 08 race sled was released.

Also had the progressive steering setup

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8 minutes ago, Steve753 said:

I have a 15 procross. It's as RF as a 2000 Polaris is.

are you trying to say the 2008+ SP chassis wasn't rider forward?

7 minutes ago, krom said:

earlier than that even..

The firecat based sx sleds had the rider as far forward as a rev chassis before the 08 race sled was released.

Also had the progressive steering setup

I know, but the SP chassis is easily identifiable as rider forward.   maybe @hayward needs to take Steve on a shop tour to a friend of ours in PA where he can see them all? 

or, try the argument in this group...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/260379907465550/?ref=share&mibextid=K8Wfd2

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2 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

are you trying to say the 2008+ SP chassis wasn't rider forward?

I know, but the SP chassis is easily identifiable as rider forward.   maybe @hayward needs to take Steve on a shop tour to a friend of ours in PA where he can see them all? 

or, try the argument in this group...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/260379907465550/?ref=share&mibextid=K8Wfd2

Yes

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4 minutes ago, Premium said:

The 08-11 sno pro was 100% rider forward and much more so than the 2012+ Procross.

Nah. It was a modified Crossfire chassis. 

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I tend to think that the SnoPro chassis was the first REAL example of rider forward for Cat and was WAY ahead of the Procross in terms of ergonomics, handling, and being rider forward. You cannot look at this sled and say that it is not Rider Forward. 

IMG_0051.jpg

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