Gold Member 800renegaderider Posted March 26, 2023 Gold Member Share Posted March 26, 2023 9 hours ago, BOHICA said: Looks like Ford and GM can thank the taxpayer as well by looking at that chart. Those 2 make 10 times less EV combined then Tesla does and combine tax payer help looks to be as much if not more combined then Tesla. Throw in the bailouts of BushObama and they get a lot of coin from the gov. Neither GM,Ford,or Stellantis USA would exist with out the 2008-2012 tax payer gift Most of the bailout money was paid back. That chart didn’t include the 7.5 billion subsidy Tesla recently got and what else they’ve recently gotten. No one even close to tesla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted March 26, 2023 Author Gold Member Share Posted March 26, 2023 35 minutes ago, 800renegaderider said: Most of the bailout money was paid back. That chart didn’t include the 7.5 billion subsidy Tesla recently got and what else they’ve recently gotten. No one even close to tesla 7.5 billion isn’t just for Tesla…. 7.5 billion is for the entire charging infrastructure that any charging players can get for building chargers where the feds and states say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not greg b Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 9 hours ago, BOHICA said: Pile of inventory in my area…. Ram has some good size discounts going. Ford and GM seem to be holding off the large discounts. Those that got bent over by dealers with dealer markups the past few years are in a pretty tough spot. They are using the “discounts” to subsidize the interest rates on loans as that will have a greater effect on sales. Most buyers of vehicles only care about the payment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 12 hours ago, SkisNH said: I remember when the auto bailouts were getting debated why the big 3 couldn't compete with the Japanese. At the time there was something like 2500.00 in legacy costs per car that Japan didn't have. That's why the quality was so much better. https://www.cc.com/video/y5t6yy/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-autoerotic-explanation we bailed out the banks... Ford didn't take the money because Allen Mulally from Ford, who came from Boeing was an extremely smart CEO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmo Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 On 3/26/2023 at 7:09 AM, steve from amherst said: At tghe time of the bailout, for every 2 workers, GM had 3.7 retirees on the books These are fat uaw retirements plans that are a real drag on the bottom line for the legacy automakers. Tesla has none of this, and is all non union so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmo Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 13 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said: https://www.cc.com/video/y5t6yy/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-autoerotic-explanation we bailed out the banks... Ford didn't take the money because Allen Mulally from Ford, who came from Boeing was an extremely smart CEO. He borrowed the money before the economy shit the bed. He got ahead of it. But they still were on the hook for billions in loans. Just owed the banks instead of the gov’t. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Skidooski Posted March 27, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 27, 2023 Ford lost 2 billion in 2022 on EV’s and they expect to lose 3 billion in 2023 on EV’s Remember how many years Tesla hemorrhaged before they started making a profit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted March 27, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 27, 2023 On 3/25/2023 at 9:51 PM, Art Vandelay said: Yep, Elon has played the handout game better than anyone. Like a farmer once told me "all you have to do is know how to farm the land and the govt to be a successful farmer." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted March 27, 2023 Author Gold Member Share Posted March 27, 2023 47 minutes ago, Skidooski said: Ford lost 2 billion in 2022 on EV’s and they expect to lose 3 billion in 2023 on EV’s Remember how many years Tesla hemorrhaged before they started making a profit The lose they are taking pales in comparison to the lose they are taking from making non EV vehicles…. Ford has a total long-term debt of $140 billion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 Tesla owner parks on stranger's lawn, steals electricity for 12 hours At no point was this ever OK ZAC PALMER Jul 26th 2019 at 3:11PM 134 134 comments Here’s your public service announcement of the day: Don’t be like this guy. This guy, as reported by TV station WPBF and brought to our attention via Jalopnik, decided it was OK for him to plug his Tesla Model 3 into a random person’s electrical outlet on the outside of their home. Not only did he unashamedly steal someone’s electricity without asking, but he also decided that person’s lawn would be a good place to park. Not cool, dude. As these things tend to go, this incident happened in Florida. The Tesla was parked, charging on the homeowner’s lawn for 12 whole hours before it was noticed. Phil Fraumeni, the homeowner, was only notified of it because a lawn care worker knocked on his door, telling him to move “his car.” One thing led to the next, and the police were eventually called out to investigate. The owners of the car, a man and a woman, eventually returned to their car, saying they ran out of power and had to charge up while staying overnight, visiting a friend. According to the Facebook posts from Fraumeni’s wife, the folks offered no compensation and no apology for plugging into their house. Of course, the whole ordeal netted the Model 3 a meager amount of range for how much trouble it caused. Spending about 12 hours on a 120V charger in a Model 3 will approximately net (Updated figures) between 24 miles and 72 miles of range. Of course, the charging rate will vary based on the conditions. Jalopnik calculated the approximate cost to the Fraumeni’s to be just over $2.00. So no, it wasn’t expensive, but it’s the principle that matters here. You can watch the news report via this link here to hear Fraumeni describe the situation himself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Skidooski Posted March 27, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 27, 2023 6 hours ago, BOHICA said: The lose they are taking pales in comparison to the lose they are taking from making non EV vehicles…. Ford has a total long-term debt of $140 billion How much did Tesla flush down the toilet for years on end even with the governments help? Your nipples have been erect ever since they finally started to turn a profit. Now they are slashing prices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted March 28, 2023 Author Gold Member Share Posted March 28, 2023 5 hours ago, Skidooski said: How much did Tesla flush down the toilet for years on end even with the governments help? Your nipples have been erect ever since they finally started to turn a profit. Now they are slashing prices Tesla pay backed the only loan it took from the government almost immediately. Ford’s still working on paying that one back….. Consumers got to keep more of their own tax dollars though though some of the years. Tesla grew its business and raised capital by selling stocks and in the process made many pretty darn wealth for investing in tesla stock and financing their growth to profitability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Skidooski Posted March 28, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 28, 2023 3.2 Billion from California alone according to Newsom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted March 28, 2023 Author Gold Member Share Posted March 28, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Skidooski said: 3.2 Billion from California alone according to Newsom Yes states usually incentivizes business to set up shop in their respective states. But I don’t like in California or Michigan or any other state that incentivizes auto manufactures on a state level. Good thing is typically these state incentives are available to any business that chooses to set up shop in those states. https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2022/03/09/michigan-lawmakers-sign-off-666-1-m-gm-incentives/9445569002/ Michigan lawmakers voted Wednesday to allocate $666.1 million in state funds for a General Motors electric vehicle project that's expected to create between 3,200 and 4,000 jobs. Edited March 28, 2023 by BOHICA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkipinki Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 Tesla's patent's are open book. Anyone can look and improve on the design if they so wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 On 3/25/2023 at 10:51 PM, Art Vandelay said: Yep, Elon has played the handout game better than anyone. He's in good company. Trump, bezos, big banks, Boeing, airlines, Ukraine, Saudi Arabia, big pharm, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 Don't forget a huge portion of Tesla's success is absolutely comical. They make a serious piece of shit car, but non-thinking lemmings with a promise of hugging trees buy them like crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Skidooski Posted March 28, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 28, 2023 1 hour ago, BOHICA said: Yes states usually incentivizes business to set up shop in their respective states. But I don’t like in California or Michigan or any other state that incentivizes auto manufactures on a state level. Good thing is typically these state incentives are available to any business that chooses to set up shop in those states. https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2022/03/09/michigan-lawmakers-sign-off-666-1-m-gm-incentives/9445569002/ Michigan lawmakers voted Wednesday to allocate $666.1 million in state funds for a General Motors electric vehicle project that's expected to create between 3,200 and 4,000 jobs. For 3.2 Billion you could even almost start your own car company 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted March 28, 2023 Author Gold Member Share Posted March 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, Skidooski said: For 3.2 Billion you could even almost start your own car company 🤣 or file bankruptcy and get more then that for an existing car company. Annual type thing for the big 3 https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2022/07/06/gm-tax-credits-michigan/7816587001/ General Motors received a $3.8 billion tax credit from Michigan after it filed for bankruptcy in 2009 and during the Great Recession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Skidooski Posted March 28, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 28, 2023 You start a thread about your man crush Tesla but keep talking about / deflecting to other auto manus anytime I bring up Tesla. Maybe change your thread title eh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Skidooski Posted March 28, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 28, 2023 17 years before turning a profit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted March 28, 2023 Author Gold Member Share Posted March 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, Skidooski said: 17 years before turning a profit But now with essentially 0 debt. gm and ford’s profits are generated by increasing debt to over 100 billion each Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Skidooski Posted March 28, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 28, 2023 Almost two whole decades of hemorrhaging money and taking huge government assistance to be essentially debt free two years after their first profitable quarter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Anler said: He's in good company. Trump, bezos, big banks, Boeing, airlines, Ukraine, Saudi Arabia, big pharm, etc... Dems and Repubs alike enjoy handing taxpayer money to big corps. Wish there was a way for free market types to get elected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted March 28, 2023 Author Gold Member Share Posted March 28, 2023 19 minutes ago, Skidooski said: Almost two whole decades of hemorrhaging money and taking huge government assistance to be essentially debt free two years after their first profitable quarter Most of the money tesla needed was raised via shareholders and spent on factories and growing business. they borrowed like 600 millio. From The ATVM loans but paid it back in like a year or 2…. Ford still owes money from that same program. any money tesla got is allowed and taken by every other manufacture as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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