2024 Arctic Cat Catalyst 'Chassis' details?

[jonlafon1]

22 minutes ago, Not greg b said:

Polar bear secret. 48/44 will it snow to try it is the real question 

Don't hold your breath on the snow. Looks dismal. 48/44    Load up some weight and don't be afraid to possibly go even SLIGHTLY lighter pressure(finish) in the secondary with that 44 finish.   You might get away with a 140/200

Edited February 28 by jonlafon1

[Not greg b]

Gonna stick with stock weights for now as I have been kicking the can down the road for picking up more parts due to lack of snow. Just want to see if this works for next season. If all else fails I can swing down to tpi and pick up set. We have whopping 1 inch of snow and a lot of wind 

[jonlafon1]

1 hour ago, Not greg b said:

Gonna stick with stock weights for now as I have been kicking the can down the road for picking up more parts due to lack of snow. Just want to see if this works for next season. If all else fails I can swing down to tpi and pick up set. We have whopping 1 inch of snow and a lot of wind 

That helix will work but you’re going to need minimum 65 grams (cat weights) IMO. The stock are going to REV up top with a 44 finish.   One way to find out!
I understand though not having snow And buying parts. Kinda goes against the grain. 

Edited February 28 by jonlafon1

[Not greg b]

4 hours ago, jonlafon1 said:

That helix will work but you’re going to need minimum 65 grams (cat weights) IMO. The stock are going to REV up top with a 44 finish.   One way to find out!
I understand though not having snow And buying parts. Kinda goes against the grain. 

I figured it was going to over rev up top. I wanted to try the combo to make sure it would actually work. The shitty thing we have got about an inch of snow so far and a lot of wind. None of the 8+ they were calling for 

[Palu49]

I forget who doubted what I said when I passed on the info that Cat needs to sell 2.5X what they sold this year to be profitable. Take a gander at how many total catalysts were built for 24 👀 

[Deephaven]

That is nothing.  No way that is profitable.  Ouch.

[Crnr2Crnr]

36 minutes ago, Palu49 said:

I forget who doubted what I said when I passed on the info that Cat needs to sell 2.5X what they sold this year to be profitable. Take a gander at how many total catalysts were built for 24 👀 

 

good thing they were all sold out in March... 

[mnstang]

1 hour ago, Palu49 said:

I forget who doubted what I said when I passed on the info that Cat needs to sell 2.5X what they sold this year to be profitable. Take a gander at how many total catalysts were built for 24 👀 

That was me.

[Crnr2Crnr]

changing gears... 

 

 

@Not greg b

[mnstang]

Some not-so-good reviews of the prototype 858.

 

 

[ZR6000RR]

19 minutes ago, mnstang said:

Some not-so-good reviews of the prototype 858.

 

 

Brought to you by???? Polaris!

[mnstang]

12 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

Brought to you by???? Polaris!

I like the snowest crew, not sure how swayed they are with that, if any, but I did take note of it.  Also sounded like they rode them in January and that AC was changing mapping right after they were done riding.  So I think it was still in full development when they rode.  

They said it just wasn't good on the low end and throttle response, that the 800 ctec was even better on the low end.  I'd imagine there's room.for improvement with the tuning but who knows.  They also said it felt heavier than the 600, if the motor isn't snappy it's going to feel heavier.  They still complimented the 600.  I don't feel like I'm missing out on the 858 with my 600, which I like.

[ZR6000RR]

Just now, mnstang said:

I like the snowest crew, not sure how swayed they are with that, if any, but I did take note of it.  Also sounded like they rode them in January and that AC was changing mapping right after they were done riding.  So I think it was still in full development when they rode.  

They said it just wasn't good on the low end and throttle response, that the 800 ctec was even better on the low end.  I'd imagine there's room.for improvement with the tuning but who knows.  They also said it felt heavier than the 600, if the motor isn't snappy it's going to feel heavier.  They still complimented the 600.  I don't feel like I'm missing out on the 858 with my 600, which I like.

New crank as well on production.

[jonlafon1]

If the old ctec 800 is better then the 858 in anyway CAT is in big trouble.  Like huge trouble. 

[mnstang]

5 minutes ago, jonlafon1 said:

If the old ctec 800 is better then the 858 in anyway CAT is in big trouble.  Like huge trouble. 

I liked my 800 ctec alot.

[Palu49]

The 858 is closer to square on stroke and bore than the 800 ctec so that makes it even more concerning that it lacks bottom end power.

[Deephaven]

2 hours ago, mnstang said:

Some not-so-good reviews of the prototype 858.

 

 

Best part was when they were making fun of Jimwit and other overly loyal idiots.

[Premium]

Definitely far from glowing reviews. I'm sure Cat has some fuel calibration and clutching to get sorted out. It's kind of funny that pages and pages of this thread have been dedicated to sorting out the 600 catalyst clutching, but the snowest crew raves about how that sled feels . As a tree riding crew they prob don't care one bit about a wall at 80 mph, as long as it feels snappy.

Back when I was doing some drag racing with my F7, you could throw a ton of weight at that primary to get faster ETs. You definitely felt it load that motor though. The racing setups I used were far from my ideal trail setups.

Of course, we can't rule out that Textron's Arctic Cat gave us a turd (I shudder as I think back to the 07-09 suzuki 800 in the twin spar).

 

 

 

Edited March 8 by Premium

[mnstang]

At this point it is impossible to say what the cause is.  It's possible it's nothing to do with the motor itself.  The mapping wasn't final, considering cat was changing it at the event right after they rode the machine and since mapping was still being developed, clutch calibration is far from settled as that can only come last.  It's possible that pipe design can change too if there's a need.  They also mentioned that trail riders probably wouldn't care about their complaints with the low end.  I don't think it's that low end total power is low.  At WOT I'm sure the power is there.  When you're doing technical slower speed riding, that takes precision, you need clean and crisp power that is free and light feeling and lights up quick and effortless.  I think that is where the motor was lacking at this test.  Kind of like how the 800 Suzuki dyno the same as a ctec but was crap in the low end and felt dirty and imprecise.  I'd think it's mostly in the tune considering how bad it was but who knows?

With guys like Andy Beavis and Troy Halverson in place, you can bet they are and were aware of it and are working on making it better.  I'm surprised they had media ride it in this way.  I've been reading they are canceling demo rides out west, guessing it's still not finalized.  Definitely takes some steam out of the hype train but that's all it is for now.  But this time last year they were giving the best possible review of the 600 catalyst and they still really like that sled.  Power delivery can make any machine feel so entirely different, definitely affects how heavy it feels, even more than scale weight does.

Funny, none of their critiques would show up on the all-valuable dyno tests that this forum covets so much.

[Tripleflipper]

15 hours ago, Deephaven said:

That is nothing.  No way that is profitable.  Ouch.

But hey, according to someone they sold out almost day 1. That must mean something. LMAO

[Tripleflipper]

The 858 coming out the door is already behind the 850 Doo Turbo and Poo 850 Turbo and 900r. Cat is already starting from behind the 8 ball. Also consider that Doo and Poo are already developing replacements. This is going to be a tough haul for Cat in my opinion.

[Crnr2Crnr]

1st year engine rule still applies... regardless of manufacturer 

[krom]

9 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

New crank as well on production.

Explain what is different with the crank, and how that would change anything at all, with how the engine runs, or feels to the rider

 

1 hour ago, mnstang said:

At this point it is impossible to say what the cause is.  It's possible it's nothing to do with the motor itself.  The mapping wasn't final, considering cat was changing it at the event right after they rode the machine and since mapping was still being developed, clutch calibration is far from settled as that can only come last.  It's possible that pipe design can change too if there's a need.  They also mentioned that trail riders probably wouldn't care about their complaints with the low end.  I don't think it's that low end total power is low.  At WOT I'm sure the power is there.  When you're doing technical slower speed riding, that takes precision, you need clean and crisp power that is free and light feeling and lights up quick and effortless.  I think that is where the motor was lacking at this test.  Kind of like how the 800 Suzuki dyno the same as a ctec but was crap in the low end and felt dirty and imprecise.  I'd think it's mostly in the tune considering how bad it was but who knows?

With guys like Andy Beavis and Troy Halverson in place, you can bet they are and were aware of it and are working on making it better.  I'm surprised they had media ride it in this way.  I've been reading they are canceling demo rides out west, guessing it's still not finalized.  Definitely takes some steam out of the hype train but that's all it is for now.  But this time last year they were giving the best possible review of the 600 catalyst and they still really like that sled.  Power delivery can make any machine feel so entirely different, definitely affects how heavy it feels, even more than scale weight does.

Funny, none of their critiques would show up on the all-valuable dyno tests that this forum covets so much.

Textron fired several of the experienced calibration guys when they took over, for a while there was 1 person heading engine calibration of dirt, and snow.  They also fired an long time experienced calibration guy during the last round of firing engineering staff.

Dynotech ran the engine to see how much HP it makes, because that's what everyone cares about on a new big engine.  If no one cared about HP 440 fanners would be the biggest selling category.  If you want test for throttle response and low end performance, you sure can.

Listening to the snowest guys, you could hear the disappointment, they all seemed to make excuses for it

Edited March 8 by krom

[Palu49]

1 hour ago, Premium said:

Definitely far from glowing reviews. I'm sure Cat has some fuel calibration and clutching to get sorted out. It's kind of funny that pages and pages of this thread have been dedicated to sorting out the 600 catalyst clutching, but the snowest crew raves about how that sled feels . As a tree riding crew they prob don't care one bit about a wall at 80 mph, as long as it feels snappy.

Back when I was doing some drag racing with my F7, you could throw a ton of weight at that primary to get faster ETs. You definitely felt it load that motor though. The racing setups I used were far from my ideal trail setups.

Of course, we can't rule out that Textron's Arctic Cat gave us a turd (I shudder as I think back to the 07-09 suzuki 800 in the twin spar).

 

 

 

In their defense the M has basically the same clutching I put in my RXC to make it right and probably needs the lighter weights at altitude to rev.

[Premium]

34 minutes ago, krom said:

Listening to the snowest guys, you could hear the disappointment, they all seemed to make excuses for it

It did seem that way.

That was a painful podcast to watch/listen to. It's hard to know what to think...they start the episode plugging Polaris hard, rag on the 858 "bottom end", their descriptions were all over the map with meandering and unspecific responses, and they put out a 2 part series with a quantity of information that easily could've fit into a 15 min episode.