New engine for Polaris?

[J. Jackson]

12 minutes ago, snoughnut said:

No shit but it's still a Polaris product and I'm sure Poo had some say in the design. If you want to get technical, for years just about every manufacturer had their engines built by others...........Suzuki, Rotax, Fuji etc. Yamaha may be the only exception.

 

 

I think Rotax has been wholly owned by Bombardier since the early 70's.

[spin_dry]

That’s a two stroke turbo. Polaris has oodles of patents surrounding turbo two stroke technology. 

[p51mstg]

What was wrong with the first Polaris 4s?  I know it didn't last very long in the lineup, but they must've had some problems with it in order to back away from it so quickly.  I don't know that much about it.

I'd like to see Polaris come out with a smaller 400-500cc liquid.  To me, that's where there's a hole in their lineup.  I'm not sure that a 4s of any hp class could fill in a gap without almost completely overlapping their existing lineup.  It's tempting to keep up in the horsepower wars, but I think they can easily do that with a little more boost in their Boost.  What they're leaving behind is a fuelie to put in the Evo.

[Bontz]

44 minutes ago, p51mstg said:

What was wrong with the first Polaris 4s?  I know it didn't last very long in the lineup, but they must've had some problems with it in order to back away from it so quickly.  I don't know that much about it.

I'd like to see Polaris come out with a smaller 400-500cc liquid.  To me, that's where there's a hole in their lineup.  I'm not sure that a 4s of any hp class could fill in a gap without almost completely overlapping their existing lineup.  It's tempting to keep up in the horsepower wars, but I think they can easily do that with a little more boost in their Boost.  What they're leaving behind is a fuelie to put in the Evo.

That first 4s was a Weber engine ... but that's pretty much the extent of my knowledge on it.  I don't know what plagued it, or why it was so short lived in the IQ chassis.

Polaris clearly has the 4s technology available, as witnessed by their SxS lineup.  Why they haven't tried to get into the 4s market with snowmobiles is baffling to me as I do think they could add some additional customer base (not saying I would be one of those people).  But in talking with Chris Wolf, when he was at the head of the snowmobile division, he made it abundantly clear they didn't see the need to pursue a 4s market.  The numbers were always relatively small, and his famous line was always, "OK - we're gonna build one next year.  Are you buying one?"  And all of us (4 of us BS'ing with him) would just kinda chuckle and say "Nope!"

[spin_dry]

14 minutes ago, Bontz said:

That first 4s was a Weber engine ... but that's pretty much the extent of my knowledge on it.  I don't know what plagued it, or why it was so short lived in the IQ chassis.

Polaris clearly has the 4s technology available, as witnessed by their SxS lineup.  Why they haven't tried to get into the 4s market with snowmobiles is baffling to me as I do think they could add some additional customer base (not saying I would be one of those people).  But in talking with Chris Wolf, when he was at the head of the snowmobile division, he made it abundantly clear they didn't see the need to pursue a 4s market.  The numbers were always relatively small, and his famous line was always, "OK - we're gonna build one next year.  Are you buying one?"  And all of us (4 of us BS'ing with him) would just kinda chuckle and say "Nope!"

The Weber was designed for car use and polaris attempted to sandwich into a snowmobile. It’s had a horrible industrial sound and some were riddled with issues. Heat and electrical issues for one. Polaris eventually bought the company and it’s technology. Some of that made it into the rzr. It had a really weird powerband as well. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by spin_dry

[Rod]

An 850 turbo crossover makes sense with the Polaris engine 

[Bontz]

Just now, spin_dry said:

The Weber was designed for car use and polaris attempted to sandwich into a snowmobile. It’s had a horrible industrial sound and some were riddled with issues. Heat and electrical issues for one. Polaris eventually bought the company and it’s technology. Some of that made it into the rzr. It had a really weird powerband and as well. 

Now that you mention the heat issue ... I vaguely recall that.  I know one thing, the sumbitch was HEAVY!  A riding buddy had one for a season, and he was distracted or something and got sucked into a huge pocket of drifted snow along a fence line.  Thank God we were at sea level and not the mountains because I think both of us would've died of heart attacks trying to get that tank freed up.

[snoughnut]

1 hour ago, p51mstg said:

What was wrong with the first Polaris 4s?  I know it didn't last very long in the lineup, but they must've had some problems with it in order to back away from it so quickly.  I don't know that much about it.

I'd like to see Polaris come out with a smaller 400-500cc liquid.  To me, that's where there's a hole in their lineup.  I'm not sure that a 4s of any hp class could fill in a gap without almost completely overlapping their existing lineup.  It's tempting to keep up in the horsepower wars, but I think they can easily do that with a little more boost in their Boost.  What they're leaving behind is a fuelie to put in the Evo.

I agree, Poo had great success with the Liberty 500, makes great power for a 500. I'm sure with modern tech, they could make it even better. Make it affordable and they would sell a ton of them.

Poo needs to come to the 4 stroke table, there's plenty of riders that are high miler diamond pounders who want 4 stroke reliability and fuel mileage.

[Rod]

29 minutes ago, Bontz said:

Now that you mention the heat issue ... I vaguely recall that.  I know one thing, the sumbitch was HEAVY!  A riding buddy had one for a season, and he was distracted or something and got sucked into a huge pocket of drifted snow along a fence line.  Thank God we were at sea level and not the mountains because I think both of us would've died of heart attacks trying to get that tank freed up.

Terrible starting in the cold too 

[Deephaven]

5 hours ago, Ez ryder said:

Again after tge bugs are worked out poo motors are OK but a first yr Polaris bb always has had issues always . 

Correction, a first year 2 stroke BB EPA compliant motor from anyone has had issues.

 

[Legend]

2 hours ago, spin_dry said:

That’s a two stroke turbo. Polaris has oodles of patents surrounding turbo two stroke technology. 

Can you point out where the turbo is in that vid? 

 

I have a hard time believing Poo or any manufacturer would put a 3lbs boost or less turbo, on a 2 stroke snowmobile to be ridden at 1000 ft elevation. 

[Legend]

37 minutes ago, Deephaven said:

Correction, a first year 2 stroke BB EPA compliant motor from anyone has had issues.

 

Poo CFI 800 piston issues had nothing to do with EPA and everything to do with piss poor design. 

[SayatodaU.P.eh?]

N/A two stroke. 

[snoughnut]

21 minutes ago, Legend said:

Poo CFI 800 piston issues had nothing to do with EPA and everything to do with piss poor design. 

I had a 2009 CFI 800 and apparently Poo's fuel mapping was messed up to meet EPA guidelines. That engine had a 5000 - 5500 rpm lean spot that when you hit that spot on occasion it would act like it was cutting out and at times throw your head over the bars. That lean condition was the cause of most of the problems. Alot of guys had to install Power Commanders to get around the problem or eventually you'd end up with a squeaked piston. 

[Bontz]

8 minutes ago, snoughnut said:

I had a 2009 CFI 800 and apparently Poo's fuel mapping was messed up to meet EPA guidelines. That engine had a 5000 - 5500 rpm lean spot that when you hit that spot on occasion it would act like it was cutting out and at times throw your head over the bars. That lean condition was the cause of most of the problems. Alot of guys had to install Power Commanders to get around the problem or eventually you'd end up with a squeaked piston. 

Same sled and yep, same issues (I also added the Power Commander).  That said, the design didn't help ... but it was a bad combination of poor design and EPA bullshit.

[Rod]

16 minutes ago, snoughnut said:

I had a 2009 CFI 800 and apparently Poo's fuel mapping was messed up to meet EPA guidelines. That engine had a 5000 - 5500 rpm lean spot that when you hit that spot on occasion it would act like it was cutting out and at times throw your head over the bars. That lean condition was the cause of most of the problems. Alot of guys had to install Power Commanders to get around the problem or eventually you'd end up with a squeaked piston. 

Seen guys with 700 dragons burn down just cruising down the trail too 

[Boonbocker1]

2 hours ago, spin_dry said:

The Weber was designed for car use and polaris attempted to sandwich into a snowmobile. It’s had a horrible industrial sound and some were riddled with issues. Heat and electrical issues for one. Polaris eventually bought the company and it’s technology. Some of that made it into the rzr. It had a really weird powerband as well. 

Except textron bought weber and a variation of that engine found its way into the stampede and havoc sxs's.   The motor was designed in conjunction with polaris for use in their watercraft.   Never was in a car.   

[Ez ryder]

1 hour ago, Deephaven said:

Correction, a first year 2 stroke BB EPA compliant motor from anyone has had issues.

 

The early Polaris twin what 02 non compliant when the clutch would litteraly fall off with the crank end still attached .  The beginning of the Polaris bb roll outs that have become hard to watch with out that cring feeling 

[Ez ryder]

4 hours ago, snoughnut said:

No shit but it's still a Polaris product and I'm sure Poo had some say in the design. If you want to get technical, for years just about every manufacturer had their engines built by others...........Suzuki, Rotax, Fuji etc. Yamaha may be the only exception.

 

 

Cat 100% engineers designed the zuks every one in fact hand built proto motors were built in MN tested then shipped to Japan 

Poo did not they gave specs of what they wanted as far as size hp etc and fuji engendered designed tested etc etc 

 

[snoughnut]

1 hour ago, Ez ryder said:

Cat 100% engineers designed the zuks every one in fact hand built proto motors were built in MN tested then shipped to Japan 

Poo did not they gave specs of what they wanted as far as size hp etc and fuji engendered designed tested etc etc 

 

Christ dude, do you not proof read your post before you hit submit reply. 

Not that I really care but how do you know this information about Poo and Fuji in regards to their engines?

[teamgreen02]

6 minutes ago, snoughnut said:

Christ dude, do you not proof read your post before you hit submit reply. 

Not that I really care but how do you know this information about Poo and Fuji in regards to their engines?

Give him a break, he's driving.

[Ez ryder]

6 minutes ago, snoughnut said:

Christ dude, do you not proof read your post before you hit submit reply. 

Not that I really care but how do you know this information about Poo and Fuji in regards to their engines?

It is what it is ask around pretty common knowledge around the racing circuits in the 90s early 2000s a lot of the engeners were at the races back then 

[Ez ryder]

1 minute ago, teamgreen02 said:

Give him a break, he's driving.

Lol I am usualy in stop and go traffic with any mid day posting

[Rigid1]

4 hours ago, spin_dry said:

The Weber was designed for car use and polaris attempted to sandwich into a snowmobile. It’s had a horrible industrial sound and some were riddled with issues. Heat and electrical issues for one. Polaris eventually bought the company and it’s technology. Some of that made it into the rzr. It had a really weird powerband as well. 

Are you talking about the 750 turbo,..like in an 09 dragon?

You guys aren't really talking dates,..Ive only been riding since 07 so I don't know much about sleds before that.I have a friend who has one of those 750 turbos in a dragon switchback..Sled is pretty darn good too,..he said the motor was from when Poo did jet skis, was originally a jet ski motor.

[teamgreen02]

10 minutes ago, Ez ryder said:

Lol I am usualy in stop and go traffic with any mid day posting

Figured you weren't posting on your 15 minute mandatory breaks at the mill.