Capt.Storm Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Anler said: I'm going to do a side by side comparison later this fall to put this to bed once and for all. i was just messing with him.he is right.the drivers are the final deal on a tracked vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 15 minutes ago, f7ben said: a track is not a circle ....it will go the same exact distance in one revolution of the drivers as the track with less belt thickness....that is all that matter No, the belt thickness changes the final gear ratio by one half of the thickness. It's basic physics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted September 10, 2016 Author Share Posted September 10, 2016 3 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said: No, the belt thickness changes the final gear ratio by one half of the thickness. It's basic physics. no it doesnt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 Just now, f7ben said: no it doesnt Yes it does. You will never get that fine a measurement trying to read a sled track but in the world I live in it matters. That is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boered Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 4 hours ago, smokin george said: A taller tire definitely makes a difference since it travels longer per revolution. A tracks length has the same revolution. The lug height should only come into play on hard pack or ice. In soft snow there should be no difference NO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boered Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 3 hours ago, ArcticCrusher said: Here is a simplified example of of typical drive system for a conveyor. The diameter at the drive pulley determines how far the belt will move in one rev. The length of the belt has zero influence. The thickness of the belt will increase the diameter at the drive pulley but in most cases its not much. Acally you measure the diameter of the drive pully and add 1/2 the thickness of the belt. That is the core, and any lugs are not part of the equation. so, if the drive pulley is ten inches and the belt is 1/2 inch, so 10.25 times pi will equal the distanced travelled by the belt or track on each rotation of the drive pulley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Boered said: Acally you measure the diameter of the drive pully and add 1/2 the thickness of the belt. That is the core, and any lugs are not part of the equation. so, if the drive pulley is ten inches and the belt is 1/2 inch, so 10.25 times pi will equal the distanced travelled by the belt or track on each rotation of the drive pulley. Yes you are correct. We normally tach the speed to a vfd reference to get an exact measurement but it's next to impossible to get that for a sled. Have automated many servos for position, indexing, gearing and camming to know what the variables are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted September 10, 2016 Author Share Posted September 10, 2016 1 minute ago, ArcticCrusher said: Yes you are correct. We normally tach the speed to a vfd reference to get an exact measurement but it's next to impossible to get that for a sled. Have automated many servos for position, indexing, gearing and camming to know what the variables are. You dont use tachs do you....I assume you use encoders for high levels of accuracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 2 minutes ago, f7ben said: You dont use tachs do you....I assume you use encoders for high levels of accuracy Of course, we still use tachs for final calibrations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted September 10, 2016 Author Share Posted September 10, 2016 Just now, ArcticCrusher said: Of course, we still use tachs for final calibrations. the comparisons you are making for fine levels of positioning and finite adjustment are not relevant to a recurring drivetrain scenario For positioning inside the course of one revolution thickness of the belt may need to be accounted for .....for many revolutions belt thickness will not account for drive distance being incresed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polarissledder Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 You need to be riding (catwalking) on the rear idlers for lug height or belt thickness to matter.... Nobody would gear for catwalking, so lugheight does not affect drive ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 11 minutes ago, f7ben said: the comparisons you are making for fine levels of positioning and finite adjustment are not relevant to a recurring drivetrain scenario For positioning inside the course of one revolution thickness of the belt may need to be accounted for .....for many revolutions belt thickness will not account for drive distance being incresed Ben, with all due respect, how many servo systems have you personally commissioned? Leave it alone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momorider Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 2 hours ago, f7ben said: watch it momo you braindead cum dumpster .....John asked me this morning if he should have shortshit ban you and I said I'd get back to him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted September 10, 2016 Author Share Posted September 10, 2016 39 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said: Ben, with all due respect, how many servo systems have you personally commissioned? Leave it alone. none ...the only work with encoders i've done is for tandem drive setups and tachs for belt scales....basic stuff. but none of that is the slightest bit relevant to the final drive argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 15 minutes ago, f7ben said: none ...the only work with encoders i've done is for tandem drive setups and tachs for belt scales....basic stuff. but none of that is the slightest bit relevant to the final drive argument Like I said leave it alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted September 10, 2016 Author Share Posted September 10, 2016 43 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said: Like I said leave it alone. You are incorrect ...belt thickness has no cumulative effect on final drive .....the belt could be 6" think and one revolution of the drivers will not propel the sled any further than if it was 1" thick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 8 minutes ago, f7ben said: You are incorrect ...belt thickness has no cumulative effect on final drive .....the belt could be 6" think and one revolution of the drivers will not propel the sled any further than if it was 1" thick You are incorrect, you can increase the drive pulley diameter a number of ways. One is by increasing the belt thickness to a certain point. The lug height will not affect the belt thickness. Think about it a 1/4 inch belt travels different than a 4" one across the same chain and sprocket drive system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Rigid1 Posted September 11, 2016 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted September 11, 2016 Yea A lug height difference from what the sled was originally change the drive ratio, as will a multitude of other things that were suggested, all affect the drive ratio,.. That is why a good clutch guy in your back pocket is very important, someone that understands what the sled has had done to it, and can tune it to how you want it to work,..and work efficiently.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boered Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 19 minutes ago, Rigid1 said: Yea A lug height difference from what the sled was originally change the drive ratio, as will a multitude of other things that were suggested, all affect the drive ratio,.. That is why a good clutch guy in your back pocket is very important, someone that understands what the sled has had done to it, and can tune it to how you want it to work,..and work efficiently.. No, lug height will make you need to change final ratio, it will not change it. Put huge lugs on a track and you will gear down, but if you do nothing the ratio will remain and rolling resistance will increade resulting in performance loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Where the fuck is kneel and larue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted September 11, 2016 Gold Member Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, ArcticCrusher said: No, the belt thickness changes the final gear ratio by one half of the thickness. It's basic physics. So what your saying is when at the grocery store I put my monster drink on the conveyor it would make it to the checker person faster if the belt was thicker. That is some sick physics shit bro. We should just skip a man mission to mars and and roll onto that moon around jupiter that is all ice with that physics and engineering Yo!! Mars is to easy for our engineers if my rockstar makes to the checker person faster by just using a thicker belt on the conveyor. That is so awesome it is almost like anti physics or some shit. Edited September 11, 2016 by BOHICA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted September 11, 2016 Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 5 minutes ago, BOHICA said: So what your saying is when at the grocery store I put my monster drink on the conveyor it would make it to the checker person faster if the belt was thicker. That is some sick physics shit bro. We should just skip a man mission to mars and and roll onto that moon around jupiter that is all ice with that physics and engineer Yo!! Mars is to easy for our engineers if my rockstar makes to the checker person faster by just using a thicker belt on the conveyor. That is so awesome it is almost like anti physics or some shit. apparently that is what he is saying I overestimated his ability to think critically and understand basic concepts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) Holy shit. Best thread I've read all day! I'm in at post #120. Can I just say "no"? ...and why am I now craving a Monster drink and a mars bar? Edited September 11, 2016 by Zambroski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireball 440 Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Let's throw the D/d ratio into the mix. Go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted September 11, 2016 Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 Crusher must have realized he was wrong and went the way of Snowrider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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