new cat big bore ...

[stinkipinki]

Just to be clear before the hater's start jumping on my back, I am not trying to downplay the results of the past 3-4 years, nor the winners of those races. All 3 brands are making a stellar machine, I was just saying thats Cat's priorities have altered some lately as they strive to stay alive, and sponsering/investing alot into racing just hasn't been a high priority, and this has led to the obvious fallout, less Cats in events and less Cat riders.

Again, this is not to take away, at all, from the results.
Doo's 600R is a ripper and when Polaris can adjust their front ends to limit that inside ski lift, they are formidable flatlanders.

Catalyst again changes this but it got in late last year, and while it did real good, only competed in a few events. I also firmly believe this new engine architecture, whatever they decide to call it, or the 858's, will transfer to an updated 600 using similar in-crankcase engine mounts, ext.

Edited September 19, 2023 by stinkipinki

[fortune46x]

To address the 2017- today time frame for cat in snocross

2017 - Ctech 2 sx sled - ran the injector in the throttle body , mod sleds ran like absolute trash that were FI (fun fact - hibbert in 16-17 season only ran the FI hot seat mod for less than 3 weekends of racing (not sure how many rounds if it was all 6 or less) before switching back to carb. for his final year on a mod.

2018 - Suzuki style fuel injection (same injection setup on 2017 but used a different calibration and other parts)

2019 - Ctech 2 style in on snocross sleds - slotted piston , injector in the back of the cylinder, , didn't run right major calibration issues changed the spindle design and people hated the way the sled handled in the big bumps.

2020 - covid - ctech 2 2019 sleds got a new fuel rail and moved the injector back into throttle bodies and plugged the hole , were required to run slotted pistions yet and pistons were cracking around the 10 hour mark.

2021 - covid - bng 

2022 - sleds shipped late/incomplete due to fox not having shocks for them and slipper gears missing.

2023 - sleds shipped late - 2022's were allowed to run a oem "update" registered with isr for new suspension arms in the skids.

its not for lack of effort with Cat, its global supply chain issues and reduced budgets. what I hear (and this is not from anyone within cat but through the grape vine 2025 model year will show changes for the sx program.

 

 

 

[krom]

So when do you guys think you'll see an 858 in person, at a dealership, or on the snow??

[Bontz]

1 minute ago, krom said:

So when do you guys think you'll see an 858 in person, at a dealership, or on the snow??

All kidding aside, I would hope there'd be a limited release mid season (February 2024), but realistically I'd have to assume people won't see them until LATE 2024 or even early 2025.

[p51mstg]

The SnoWest guy is a serious Catalyst groupie - he was at the foot of the stage at Hay Days during the presentation.  Good video, though.

[p51mstg]

16 minutes ago, krom said:

So when do you guys think you'll see an 858 in person, at a dealership, or on the snow??

Andy Beevis says demos next spring.  Not sure if that was said intentionally, or if he was just pulling that out of thin air.

[Crnr2Crnr]

41 minutes ago, krom said:

So when do you guys think you'll see an 858 in person, at a dealership, or on the snow??

Sponsored mountain boys will be on them this winter, not a doubt in my mind.  As far as the rest of us if they follow suit the past few seasons... April and May demos

[Ziemann]

To build credibility, they REALLY need to get this engine & chassis out there for open test rides. If it is the real thing, they have a narrow window of opportunity to capitalize on the current euphoria that has captured everyone's attention. They need to do it soon before Cat once again becomes irrelevant.  

[Doug]

Cat is showing their hand already for 2025 without knowing what the other manufacturers are going to have.  Best selling point for Cat would get some well dialed demo sleds on the snow in 2024.

[Ziemann]

36 minutes ago, Doug said:

Cat is showing their hand already for 2025 without knowing what the other manufacturers are going to have.  Best selling point for Cat would get some well dialed demo sleds on the snow in 2024.

Bingo. 

Cat has everyone's attention, and they NEED rides like this to bring sales home and build credibility. 

[Doug]

10 minutes ago, Ziemann said:

Bingo. 

Cat has everyone's attention, and they NEED rides like this to bring sales home and build credibility. 

Hope it's a home run.  The sport needs at least 3 healthy manufacturers.

Odd post for me.  Normally Krom is the one holding the Arctic Cat flag.  Lately he's been burning it.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Doug

[krom]

current "rumor" is earlier than I expected.

[Not greg b]

3 minutes ago, krom said:

current "rumor" is earlier than I expected.

They must have change their tune after the reaction they got at haydays. They could have took orders at haydays and had enough pre sold to do a limited run. 

[stinkipinki]

1 hour ago, Doug said:

1 hour ago, Ziemann said:

"They need to do it soon before Cat once again becomes irrelevant.:

"Cat is showing their hand already for 2025 without knowing what the other manufacturers are going to have. "

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by stinkipinki

[Doug]

6 minutes ago, Not greg b said:

They must have change their tune after the reaction they got at haydays. They could have took orders at haydays and had enough pre sold to do a limited run. 

Like limited built sleds.  They normally have one year only parts (pre-production) with some being hand built parts.  1990-1/2 RXL had a hand built fuel rail for that year only and very hard to find.

Good for collector sleds down the road.

[Crnr2Crnr]

9 minutes ago, Doug said:

Like limited built sleds.  They normally have one year only parts (pre-production) with some being hand built parts.  1990-1/2 RXL had a hand built fuel rail for that year only and very hard to find.

Good for collector sleds down the road.

fairly certain they did an early run of Riots... doubt they've the capability to do that again right now 

[Premium]

2 hours ago, p51mstg said:

The SnoWest guy is a serious Catalyst groupie - he was at the foot of the stage at Hay Days during the presentation.  Good video, though.

At 8:15, Andy is literally talking freely about having to "choke" out a critical, remote location data acquisition session from the bean counters at Textron Specialized Vehicles lol. Had they not gotten that session the whole project would've been pushed back another year. He then talks about the Cat engineers refusing to stop working during COVID. It's clear here the passion is still there in TRF, despite the Textron muzzle.

[krom]

7 minutes ago, Premium said:

At 8:15, Andy is literally talking freely about having to "choke" out a critical, remote location data acquisition session from the bean counters at Textron Specialized Vehicles lol. Had they not gotten that session the whole project would've been pushed back another year. He then talks about the Cat engineers refusing to stop working during COVID. It's clear here the passion is still there in TRF, despite the Textron muzzle.

The gauge would have been done for last years release if textron didn't stop all development on it for no reason.

It wouldn't have been ready for haydays, if guys didn't work on it, on their own time

[stinkipinki]

4 minutes ago, krom said:

 

It wouldn't have been ready for haydays, if guys didn't work on it, on their own time

Working with Garmin was very smart and a good choice for Cat.
 

[Doug]

6 minutes ago, krom said:

 

It wouldn't have been ready for haydays, if guys didn't work on it, on their own time

That's what happens when common sense, a desire to succeed and experience is replaced with a spreadsheet, someone that don't know the product or customer and inexperience with a fresh diploma.

[mnstang]

3 hours ago, p51mstg said:

The SnoWest guy is a serious Catalyst groupie - he was at the foot of the stage at Hay Days during the presentation.  Good video, though.

That was another terrific snowest podcast on the catalyst.  So fucking pumped let's go boys!!!!

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by mnstang

[Ziemann]

1 hour ago, Doug said:

Odd post for me.  Normally Krom is the one holding the Arctic Cat flag.  Lately he's been burning it.

I don't think so. I think @krom is simply being open, honest, and telling it as he sees it from a dealer perspective. He's about the only one that seems to have a realistic view. 

[ZR6000RR]

46 minutes ago, krom said:

The gauge would have been done for last years release if textron didn't stop all development on it for no reason.

It wouldn't have been ready for haydays, if guys didn't work on it, on their own time

Wow? I just watched the video. Textron did not hold them back. Keep lying though. Shows the true 4 year degree man working at a dealership cruising around on a mop bucket. You are soooooo fucking special.

[Not greg b]

31 minutes ago, Doug said:

That's what happens when common sense, a desire to succeed and experience is replaced with a spreadsheet, someone that don't know the product or customer and inexperience with a fresh diploma.

The problem is textron uses these companies as tax write offs and a temp hiring agency for their aerospace side. They get someone they need for an upcoming aerospace project and put them in some random important position for a short period of time. when they are ready to launch that project the non money making companies like cat are left high and dry with nothing getting done. The last VP of cat was a prime example. When Textron finally gets off their ass and does something it is usually pretty good. 

[Doug]

6 minutes ago, Not greg b said:

The problem is textron uses these companies as tax write offs and a temp hiring agency for their aerospace side. They get someone they need for an upcoming aerospace project and put them in some random important position for a short period of time. when they are ready to launch that project the non money making companies like cat are left high and dry with nothing getting done. The last VP of cat was a prime example. When Textron finally gets off their ass and does something it is usually pretty good. 

Unfortunately similarities to what they did to Polaris when Textron owned Polaris.  Best thing for Polaris was Textron selling them.