Arctic Catalyst on the scales

[krom]

2 hours ago, mnstang said:

I was expecting it to be quite a bit lighter!

Scale weight is definitely not everything and being more compact and centralized will make it feel lighter than it is which is the most important, but I was still expecting it to be lighter.  I thought the rxc procross was around the 480 mark iirc.  Slight disappointment with the scale weight.  

I also thought it was weird that people were saying the final version would be lighter than the pre production.. I figured it'd be the other way around.

I was expecting lighter as well.

Engineering guys said they expect to shed weight from the prototype to production version. I can see a few pounds, but not 15 or 20, as they finalize tooling for plastic, and brackets.

[mnstang]

On 7/22/2023 at 12:09 PM, krom said:

I was expecting lighter as well.

Engineering guys said they expect to shed weight from the prototype to production version. I can see a few pounds, but not 15 or 20, as they finalize tooling for plastic, and brackets.

Cat officials claimed 10% lighter many times and I'd say this is not the case or even really close to 10%.  So that's pretty dumb.

[ZR6000RR]

17 minutes ago, mnstang said:

Cat officials claimed 10% lighter many times and I'd say this is not the case or even really close to 10%.  So that's pretty dumb.

It is not far off. Taking a slightly smaller tank, what ever, the proto is 10% lighter. Toss out the attack and you are more than. Fuzzy math. 

[Deephaven]

2 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

It is not far off. Taking a slightly smaller tank, what ever, the proto is 10% lighter. Toss out the attack and you are more than. Fuzzy math. 

All your math is fuzzy.  You can't add 1+1...

[awful knawful]

6 hours ago, Deephaven said:

All your math is fuzzy.  You can't add 1+1...

[p51mstg]

On 7/22/2023 at 9:25 AM, mnstang said:

I was expecting it to be quite a bit lighter!

Scale weight is definitely not everything and being more compact and centralized will make it feel lighter than it is which is the most important, but I was still expecting it to be lighter.  I thought the rxc procross was around the 480 mark iirc.  Slight disappointment with the scale weight.  

I also thought it was weird that people were saying the final version would be lighter than the pre production.. I figured it'd be the other way around.

That's why I said I'd be interested in seeing someone weigh all of the 2024's about mid-season, when they're actual production sleds and all available at the same time on the same scale.  

The Cat engineers at the photo shoot were telling us in January that they weren't done shedding weight.  They didn't say how much weight, and maybe by the time they add back in stuff the productions sleds need, it will be a wash.  10% is roughly 50-ish pounds, and it doesn't seem like the pre-production sled is there.  Maybe they have something up their sleeve, although I wouldn't hold my breath.

I can honestly say that the Catalyst FEELS lighter, even if it isn't - acceleration is good, and it corners flatter than a ProCross.  I was able to compare Catalyst-to-ProCross on the same day and the same elevation.  How it compares to anything else is anyone's GUESS at this point.  I wish I could compare the Catalyst to a 650 Polaris, but I wouldn't give that 50/50 odds this winter.  We'll see.

[Deephaven]

Cornering flatter....guess they missed the fun memo.  

[Premium]

At this rate the "bigger than 800cc" big bore that's coming is going to be 801cc.

[Crnr2Crnr]

there were people claiming 438lbs dry... on the internet 

[800renegaderider]

So it’s not light weight. That little 600 still weighs more dry than an old outdated mid 2010s xrs 800 or assault 800.

[Crnr2Crnr]

2020 RXC 137 without estart... 487lbs dry - 10% = 439lbs 

the wussies that need estart for 'resale value' can add 25lbs to that (based upon the 2020 ZR 6000 Limited specs) as a dry weight.  

gallon of fuel is six pounds, so add 66lbs to that without oil or coolant, etc. and you're at 530lbs wet weight. 

 

edit 2020 ZR 6000 Limited 137 is listed as 512lbs dry, fwiw.

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Crnr2Crnr

[Ziemann]

Random thoughts:

-Regardless of weight, the Catalyst is a big step forward for Cat. I still see it as a "me too" sled, offering nothing to bring back Cat's lost customers (that left for Poo & Doo). The lack of weight loss is a missed opportunity to get people's attention. I still don't see anything to compel me to consider a Catalyst other than the fact that I still have a nostalgic attraction to Cat as a brand. I'm assuming that some of us will at least give it consideration for that same reason when it is time to buy new iron- but I won't be in that group for another 2 years. By then the teething problems of the early Catalyst models should be all ironed out, and it should be reasonably refined. As long as that sled isn't a pig, I'll give it a fair shot. 

-After being an early adopter of several Cat products- I felt like an abused spouse. My Cat buying habits were the definition of INSANITY. Polaris didn't exactly do a perfect job with the early Matryx either, but in retrospect it was still a fairly decent launch due to its closeness to the Axys. 

-My Matryx VR-1 isn't a feather weight by any means, but the fun factor is very high. If Cat is able to achieve that level of fun factor, and still be a reasonable weight, it's probably worthy of consideration.  

Edited July 24, 2023 by Ziemann
meth

[Premium]

1 hour ago, 800renegaderider said:

So it’s not light weight. That little 600 still weighs more dry than an old outdated mid 2010s xrs 800 or assault 800.

Nothing in the rider forward era has ever been as light as the Doo XPs when they arrived, but they also folded up like popcans and then gained weight over the rest of the life cycle.

I think 450lbs dry is light enough to still be strong.  Whether the Catalyst actually achieves that is another story.

[800renegaderider]

16 minutes ago, Premium said:

Nothing in the rider forward era has ever been as light as the Doo XPs when they arrived, but they also folded up like popcans and then gained weight over the rest of the life cycle.

I think 450lbs dry is light enough to still be strong.  Whether the Catalyst actually achieves that is another story.

I was just expecting more I guess with all the light weight hype under 450 dry is light to me. It’s fairly comparable weight wise to 24xrs600 @ 480lbs dry though.

[awful knawful]

4 hours ago, Premium said:

Nothing in the rider forward era has ever been as light as the Doo XPs when they arrived, but they also folded up like popcans and then gained weight over the rest of the life cycle.

I think 450lbs dry is light enough to still be strong.  Whether the Catalyst actually achieves that is another story.

399lbs in 08

[Not greg b]

Someone should make a complete carbon sled and be done with it. Sell it for 40k with a huge engine in it. People will be lined up at the dealer to get one 

[ZR6000RR]

Who the fuck cares about dry weight? Fill it full of fluids and the cat, prototype is lighter than the competition. That is 10 gallons of gas at 6.3 lbs a gallon and 499 for the sled. 562 lbs for the Atac 137. Take 10 lbs off for non Atac models and maybe 5 to 7 more off for the 129. 

[krom]

On 7/21/2023 at 1:00 PM, stinkipinki said:

Here are the results in simple form:

- Polaris Titan 155                                     837 lbs
- Polaris Switchback Assault 146             584 lbs   
- Polaris 9R RMK Khaos 146                     514 lbs
- Polaris Indy 850 XCR                             582 lbs
- Polaris Boost Indy VR1 137                    604 lbs
- Polaris Indy 650 137                              573 lbs
- Ski Doo Expedition 900R                       790 lbs
- Ski Doo Renegade XRS 850 137           651 lbs
- Ski Doo MXZ Blizzard 850 129              627 lbs                 
- Ski Doo MXA Neo Plus 600 120             495 lbs
- Yamaha SideWinder LTX LE EPS 137     667 lbs

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

Who the fuck cares about dry weight? Fill it full of fluids and the cat, prototype is lighter than the competition. That is 10 gallons of gas at 6.3 lbs a gallon and 499 for the sled. 562 lbs for the Atac 137. Take 10 lbs off for non Atac models and maybe 5 to 7 more off for the 129. 

ATAC isn't even close to 10 lbs fwiw, probably isn't even 5 lbs...

If they really wanted to build and advertise a light sled, they should have made electric start an option.

[ZR6000RR]

1 minute ago, krom said:

 

ATAC isn't even close to 10 lbs fwiw, probably isn't even 5 lbs...

If they really wanted to build and advertise a light sled, they should have made electric start an option.

Add up the wiring, the controllers, servos, etc. It is closer to 10. No one offers non electric start anymore on trail sleds, though you could get the RXC without. Personally,  at my age, I would never buy a non ES anything anymore.

[800renegaderider]

27 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

Who the fuck cares about dry weight? Fill it full of fluids and the cat, prototype is lighter than the competition. That is 10 gallons of gas at 6.3 lbs a gallon and 499 for the sled. 562 lbs for the Atac 137. Take 10 lbs off for non Atac models and maybe 5 to 7 more off for the 129. 

Now do that same math with your 10gallons except start with doo’s xrs600 weight of 470lbs dry weight let me know what ya come up with 😉.

 

505 for the turbo r too that ain’t bad 

[ZR6000RR]

5 minutes ago, 800renegaderider said:

Now do that same math with your 10gallons except start with doo’s xrs600 weight of 470lbs dry weight let me know what ya come up with 😉.

 

505 for the turbo r too that ain’t bad 

That sled is a pop can, and dry weight means zero fluids. Just sayin. Also apples to apples, add electric start and all that needed bracing to keep it from folding like KROMMER cheap suit.

Edited July 25, 2023 by ZR6000RR

[800renegaderider]

Just now, ZR6000RR said:

That sled is a pop can, and dry weight means zero fluids. Just sayin.

I know what dry weight means. It’s pretty simple math same fluid weight in each sled but one starts out 30lbs lighter dry so tell me how exactly dry weight doesn’t matter?

[ZR6000RR]

4 minutes ago, 800renegaderider said:

I know what dry weight means. It’s pretty simple math same fluid weight in each sled but one starts out 30lbs lighter dry so tell me how exactly dry weight doesn’t matter?

Well add 22-25 lbs for electric start. 7 to 10 for the other fluids and your 30 is a negative. That's why.

[800renegaderider]

Just now, ZR6000RR said:

Well add 22-25 lbs for electric start. 7 to 10 for the other fluids and your 30 is a negative. That's why.

I already stated above the e-start version xrs600 is 480lbs competition version no e-start 470lbs. So cats over hyped up light weight sled still isn’t as light as the competition? Why is cat so afraid to post up a dry weight anyways? 🤔 

[ZR6000RR]

1 minute ago, 800renegaderider said:

I already stated above the e-start version xrs600 is 480lbs competition version no e-start 470lbs. So cats over hyped up light weight sled still isn’t as light as the competition? Why is cat so afraid to post up a dry weight anyways? 🤔 

Estart ways more than 10 lbs. Again battery and starter and wiring is 22-25 lbs. You cant change that. Shot is not estart. Apples to apples. Wet weight is all that matters, real world.