Catalyst Updates

[ZR6000RR]

20 minutes ago, jonlafon1 said:

It will be tight to start for sure.. My experience is that the cat clutching runs a very tight belt with the belt riding high up over the sheaves of the secondary.. I have not dug into the clutches at all yet, but did a visual and didnt seem any tighter then my 2021 800 when new.

No need to check belt deflection as it does that on it's own and self adjusts as the belt wears. 

[jonlafon1]

22 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

No need to check belt deflection as it does that on it's own and self adjusts as the belt wears. 

Yes just like years past

[jonlafon1]

Anyone know how to or what the clutch alignment is on these sleds? Owners manual says to take it to a dealer???  Yea set from factory don't mean shit.. No more measuring bars? Or even a given range to work within?

 

Run the sled on a stand let off. then shut off and restart with brake engaged.. Then listen for a belt squeal?  That's all I find..   Seems precise

Edited December 11, 2023 by jonlafon1

[p51mstg]

10 hours ago, favoritos said:

I figured the panel would bend enough to slide the belt through.  Is that not possible?

It looks like popping the primary cover and changing springs might be tight.  I've done that quite a few times during trips and it used to be pretty easy.

This is my expectation.  I haven't chimed in, because I haven't tried it myself yet.  However, I'm pretty sure a guy could pull the panel away from the clutch far enough to fit the belt through.  

I noticed they have a little button-looking thing attached to the bellypan by the primary clutch and remember hearing that they needed to do something to prevent the clutch from grinding its way through a panel if the sled was rolled over with the engine running.  I'll bet that's what the button thing is for.

[jonlafon1]

I will probably be drilling out the rivets and using riv -nuts on the clutch side.  That way when pulling clutches and servicing  bearing/brake on drive shaft is a breeze.. Wont help with belt change(on trail) buts possible it might be easier to just remove entire side lower panel.. Not ideal but instead of fighting things >maybe?  I have not looked at the lower panel attachment and or if riv-nuts will work.. 

[Doug]

22 minutes ago, jonlafon1 said:

I will probably be drilling out the rivets and using riv -nuts on the clutch side.  That way when pulling clutches and servicing  bearing/brake on drive shaft is a breeze.. Wont help with belt change(on trail) buts possible it might be easier to just remove entire side lower panel.. Not ideal but instead of fighting things >maybe?  I have not looked at the lower panel attachment and or if riv-nuts will work.. 

Could 1/4 turn fasteners work for the application.

[jonlafon1]

35 minutes ago, Doug said:

Could 1/4 turn fasteners work for the application.

Maybe.. Thanks for idea.. I need to take a closer look at the lower panel and maybe remove the belt and see just how small of hands a guy needs.. 

[Premium]

4 hours ago, jonlafon1 said:

Velcro - very grippy.  The underside of the airbox/hood has a weird hole with frogskin over it.. Not sure why you would want to allow hot air to rise up into the airbox?  Guessing this in for if the outer frogskins vents for airbox get cover with snow?  I have no idea? Ill pull the clutches and break them down for a good cleaning and some aftermarket "stuff" for the primary..  The bolts have not fell off of the upper spindles yet!  

Yes that is exactly what it is for, to allow the engine to still get air even if the exterior intakes get blocked.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Premium

[jonlafon1]

27 minutes ago, Premium said:

Yes that is exactly what it is for, to allow the engine to still get air even if the exterior intakes get blocked.

Thanks.  I noticed it has like a small slit in the plastic under the frog skin. Was thinking this would be the first thing getting covered with heat tape.. LOL.. 

[Allyammies]

I was just noticing how close the clutch guard is. Not sure if my fat hands will fit in there without getting cut up.

[racinfarmer]

9 hours ago, jonlafon1 said:

Anyone know how to or what the clutch alignment is on these sleds? Owners manual says to take it to a dealer???  Yea set from factory don't mean shit.. No more measuring bars? Or even a given range to work within?

 

Run the sled on a stand let off. then shut off and restart with brake engaged.. Then listen for a belt squeal?  That's all I find..   Seems precise

You don't, kind of.  The secondary doesn't even float, which is disappointing.  I'm hoping someone comes up with a better solution for that or an adapter to a Team or something.

Oh yeah, the bolt that holds that secondary on, make sure you torque that bitch to spec or your bolt backs out and secondary falls apart.

7 hours ago, jonlafon1 said:

I will probably be drilling out the rivets and using riv -nuts on the clutch side.  That way when pulling clutches and servicing  bearing/brake on drive shaft is a breeze.. Wont help with belt change(on trail) buts possible it might be easier to just remove entire side lower panel.. Not ideal but instead of fighting things >maybe?  I have not looked at the lower panel attachment and or if riv-nuts will work.. 

Not sure what direction we'll go yet.  Probably cut the little button off and muscle the belts in and out.

4 hours ago, Allyammies said:

I was just noticing how close the clutch guard is. Not sure if my fat hands will fit in there without getting cut up.

Dull the sharp edges down and bring a pair of cut resistant gloves with is my plan.

[jonlafon1]

1 hour ago, racinfarmer said:

Oh yeah, the bolt that holds that secondary on, make sure you torque that bitch to spec or your bolt backs out and secondary falls apart.

I use blue on those threads(bolt) every time i take it in and out.. Thanks for heads up though.. 

[Doug]

4 hours ago, racinfarmer said:

You don't, kind of.  The secondary doesn't even float, which is disappointing.  I'm hoping someone comes up with a better solution for that or an adapter to a Team or something.

Quick question and I haven't looked that close at a Catalyst.

On the drive belt side you have the eccentric bearing that is able to move the jackshaft up or down for different gear sets.  Is this not pivoting the jackshaft on the clutch bearing thus effecting the clutch alignment.  It's probably not a lot but still some amount of float on the 2ndary would be preferred. 

Again haven't looked that close at one but by moving one side of the jackshaft up or down would effect the other side.

[jonlafon1]

8 hours ago, Doug said:

Quick question and I haven't looked that close at a Catalyst.

On the drive belt side you have the eccentric bearing that is able to move the jackshaft up or down for different gear sets.  Is this not pivoting the jackshaft on the clutch bearing thus effecting the clutch alignment.  It's probably not a lot but still some amount of float on the 2ndary would be preferred. 

Again haven't looked that close at one but by moving one side of the jackshaft up or down would effect the other side.

Not trying to answer for racin farmer..  I will add

Very good question, and I think you have a valid point.. I really have not had a chance to dive that deep on it.. YET.. Might get away with this half ass clutch offset technique and what you speak of with 120 HP.. No way with the power of new 858 or a T cat/sidewinder.. The way the weather is going it may be a bit until we get the answer to this eccentric bearing/jackshaft/offset question and if they thought this through(they being Cat engineering)

[Premium]

12 hours ago, Doug said:

Quick question and I haven't looked that close at a Catalyst.

On the drive belt side you have the eccentric bearing that is able to move the jackshaft up or down for different gear sets.  Is this not pivoting the jackshaft on the clutch bearing thus effecting the clutch alignment.  It's probably not a lot but still some amount of float on the 2ndary would be preferred. 

Again haven't looked that close at one but by moving one side of the jackshaft up or down would effect the other side.

Seems like what may allow Cat to do this is the Torque Control Link (TCL). In theory this eccentric bearing adjustment would have no effect on clutch C-C and alignment. Instead the movement would be translated to the engine mounting, where positional change is less pronounced due to it being further away from the belt case.

The other possibility (and perhaps in addition to the above) is that the eccentric hub movement is in an arc that complements the C-C distance of the clutches. So the secondary clutch moves up and down in an arc that maintains C-C and alignment. For this to be the case maybe there is rotational movement allowed at the motor mount?

I don't actually know, I'm just throwing out ideas.

[jonlafon1]

Belt temps and secondary sheave marks will tell the tale.. And of course if guys report of blowing belts.. That's if it actually gets cold out and we have winter!    .. First time in 9 years(since owning) cabin in upper Michigan Im leaving the sleds home and hoping for walkable ice to fish over Christmas vacation.  Maybe take my Jesus sandals for ice fishing even  . Heading up December 22- Jan 2.. Saying rain and 40's for Christmas.. 

[Doug]

4 hours ago, jonlafon1 said:

Belt temps and secondary sheave marks will tell the tale.. And of course if guys report of blowing belts.. That's if it actually gets cold out and we have winter!    .. First time in 9 years(since owning) cabin in upper Michigan Im leaving the sleds home and hoping for walkable ice to fish over Christmas vacation.  Maybe take my Jesus sandals for ice fishing even  . Heading up December 22- Jan 2.. Saying rain and 40's for Christmas.. 

We just took a ride up by our place East of Eagle River WI.  Maybe 2-3 inches on the ground.

[racinfarmer]

23 hours ago, jonlafon1 said:

I use blue on those threads(bolt) every time i take it in and out.. Thanks for heads up though.. 

Yeah, the outside sheeve on the secondary literally just lifts off without the bolt on.

20 hours ago, Doug said:

Quick question and I haven't looked that close at a Catalyst.

On the drive belt side you have the eccentric bearing that is able to move the jackshaft up or down for different gear sets.  Is this not pivoting the jackshaft on the clutch bearing thus effecting the clutch alignment.  It's probably not a lot but still some amount of float on the 2ndary would be preferred. 

Again haven't looked that close at one but by moving one side of the jackshaft up or down would effect the other side.

I'm not really sure yet.  We haven't played with it since the sled was set up.

[jonlafon1]

13 hours ago, Doug said:

We just took a ride up by our place East of Eagle River WI.  Maybe 2-3 inches on the ground.

Nice..  We need cold temps!  Not seeing much for the 14 day.. Lets hope they are wrong

[jonlafon1]

Pulled front shocks. Fox QS3R.  They changed the bushings in the eye of the front shocks top and bottom.. Interesting.. The middle piece is metal the outside halves are some kind composite. (think light weight!). Then heavy o ring.. Not sure about durability on this but going to give them a pass and see how these wear so to speak. One thing I noticed is if you grab the shock res. after its mounted up on sled and slightly turn it side to side it has some flex. (definitely more then procross)  I would actually think MAYBE this would help the shocks/shaft flex  ???  Im not a shock guru so just a guess. Definitely different then the old metal bushing inserts. I LIGHTLY greased the innards with a good water proof grease (Maxima).. Will see how they wear.  Otherwise is pretty tight in between the A arms  for shocks with res ( no issues with this IMO). The arms seem to be cocked(angled) differently also.

[Doug]

9 hours ago, jonlafon1 said:

Pulled front shocks. Fox QS3R.  They changed the bushings in the eye of the front shocks top and bottom.. Interesting.. The middle piece is metal the outside halves are some kind composite. (think light weight!). Then heavy o ring.. Not sure about durability on this but going to give them a pass and see how these wear so to speak. One thing I noticed is if you grab the shock res. after its mounted up on sled and slightly turn it side to side it has some flex. (definitely more then procross)  I would actually think MAYBE this would help the shocks/shaft flex  ???  Im not a shock guru so just a guess. Definitely different then the old metal bushing inserts. I LIGHTLY greased the innards with a good water proof grease (Maxima).. Will see how they wear.  Otherwise is pretty tight in between the A arms  for shocks with res ( no issues with this IMO). The arms seem to be cocked(angled) differently also.

Walker Evans uses a similar setup.  On occasion you will see where the composite spacers will crack or break.

[favoritos]

On 12/10/2023 at 8:58 AM, jonlafon1 said:

2024 RXC. 

Thanks for posting the spec sheet.

The secondary info is nice to know.

I'm guessing that is a straight cut helix?  I'm never sure with some of the numbers I've seen over the years.

It looks like the same secondary they have used with earlier RXC sleds.  The primary is setup different.  Those 60g weights and high finish rate spring could be interesting.  I'm guessing we will see some screaming rpms on these.

I wonder if the other models are running the same clutching?  Can't find the parts diagrams.

[krom]

On 12/11/2023 at 9:53 AM, jonlafon1 said:

Anyone know how to or what the clutch alignment is on these sleds? Owners manual says to take it to a dealer???  Yea set from factory don't mean shit.. No more measuring bars? Or even a given range to work within?

 

Run the sled on a stand let off. then shut off and restart with brake engaged.. Then listen for a belt squeal?  That's all I find..   Seems precise

Tech line buddy told me to use a 1.507" alignment bar.

Take it for what its worth

[krom]

15 minutes ago, favoritos said:

Thanks for posting the spec sheet.

The secondary info is nice to know.

I'm guessing that is a straight cut helix?  I'm never sure with some of the numbers I've seen over the years.

It looks like the same secondary they have used with earlier RXC sleds.  The primary is setup different.  Those 60g weights and high finish rate spring could be interesting.  I'm guessing we will see some screaming rpms on these.

I wonder if the other models are running the same clutching?  Can't find the parts diagrams.

48s is a straight cut 48 degree.  ER2 is Engine Reverse

[Palu49]

12 hours ago, krom said:

Tech line buddy told me to use a 1.507" alignment bar.

Take it for what its worth

We’ve been using the 1.507 on them. They come with 150 thousandths in them out of the crate and most of them are pretty much dead nuts on there but a couple have taken 180 thou to be aligned properly. One of those was run before I messed with shims and the thing was idling at like 18mph track speed and squealing like a bastard with the brake on.