Premium Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Deephaven said: The review is inline with reality, which IMO is a positive. The Catalyst riding position looks exactly like my old IQR but with a better seating position...which had it had that I'd still be riding that sled. It is how it felt when I sat on it a while back as well. I have a lot of hope that the big bore version would be something I could own. Atm the only sled I fit on is a Polaris. The Procross has an awful sit/stand transition for someone of my height and the Doo is made for Canadian midgets. The Catalyst solves this. ^^This!!!^^ And I'm 5'8" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 17 minutes ago, Premium said: ^^This!!!^^ And I'm 5'8" Any sled I can't make that transition on easily is not one I can own. I am 5' tall on my knees... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 19 hours ago, mnstang said: @2:35 that's what I want to hear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 You guys are pretty weird. Saying that it has only just caught up. Weird way if thinking. I'm not saying the catalyst is anything in particular, I haven't ridden one. But I'm not such a simpleton to think that a sled is only a riding position. That if they have the same riding positions they must be the same. You guys have zero idea what it's like to ride this thing but think cat has merely just 'caught up'. That is wild to me that there are people like you out there. Hundreds of other variables that work in combination to make a sled give a certain unique experience that is its own. But nope. It's only this far forward. And the only thing different is belt drive. Mmmk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 Well they were way behind so hopefully they caught up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, mnstang said: Saying that it has only just caught up. I'm not saying the catalyst is anything in particular, I haven't ridden one. But I'm not such a simpleton to think that a sled is only a riding position. That if they have the same riding positions they must be the same. You guys have zero idea what it's like to ride this thing but think cat has merely just 'caught up'. That is wild to me that there are people like you out there. Hundreds of other variables that work in combination to make a sled give a certain unique experience that is its own. But nope. It's only this far forward. And the only thing different is belt drive. Mmmk. I absolutely agree. That said, there have been major ergonomic advancements over the last two decades that have defined the sport. Cat was late to the party every time. I'm unlucky enough to have a Catalyst 6+ hrs away at any given moment, so I obviously don't have any seat time....so hearing comparisons to the 08-11 sno pro is huge for me, since I do have seat time on that chassis and love it (many of us complained the procross was too relaxed vs the sno pro right off the bat). To your point- the Procross has a lot of things that sound good on paper; a plethora of race wins, strong chassis, laydown motor for centralized mass, etc. Take brand preference out of the equation for a second and go for a "blindfolded" ride a new 2023 Procross 800, then switch immediately to a new 2015 Axys 800 and tell me you wouldn't prefer the Axys. I know I would...and I've come to grips with that. If the Catalyst is a hoot to ride (tbd) and comes with a venerable big bore (tbd), I'll plunk the money down. Edited March 23, 2023 by Premium 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 35 minutes ago, mnstang said: You guys are pretty weird. Saying that it has only just caught up. Weird way if thinking. I'm not saying the catalyst is anything in particular, I haven't ridden one. But I'm not such a simpleton to think that a sled is only a riding position. That if they have the same riding positions they must be the same. You guys have zero idea what it's like to ride this thing but think cat has merely just 'caught up'. That is wild to me that there are people like you out there. Hundreds of other variables that work in combination to make a sled give a certain unique experience that is its own. But nope. It's only this far forward. And the only thing different is belt drive. Mmmk. if the ergonomics are back to 2010, I honestly feel people will really like it and you know that chassis just as well as I do. it has an extremely balanced feel in nearly any situation, imo. 11 minutes ago, Premium said: I absolutely agree. That said, there have been major ergonomic advancements over the last two decades that have defined the sport. Cat was late to the party every time. I'm unlucky enough to have a Catalyst 6+ hrs away at any given moment, so I obviously don't have any seat time....so hearing comparisons to the 08-11 sno pro is huge for me, since I do have seat time on that chassis and love it (many of us complained the procross was too relaxed vs the sno pro right off the bat). To your point- the Procross has a lot of things that sound good on paper; a plethora of race wins, strong chassis, laydown motor for centralized mass, etc. Take brand preference out of the equation for a second and go for a "blindfolded" ride a new 2023 Procross 800, then switch immediately to a new 2015 Axys 800 and tell me you wouldn't prefer the Axys. I know I would...and I've come to grips with that. If the Catalyst is a hoot to ride (tbd) and comes with a venerable big bore (tbd), I'll plunk the money down. having a 2010 500, 2010 720 and 2021 RXC at my disposal this winter... the RXC engine is perfect (cough) but the ergonomics, seat and overall feel (especially while standing) goes hands down to the old SnoPro in comparison. I don't feel I'm able to throw the Procross around as easily, especially at lower speeds in the woods. at high speed, in the ditch hitting driveways at speed the RXC is very planted and predictable, this is not a bad thing. in addition, the RXC skid is better, not a lot but enough to mention it... won't take that away and it was a good move to put that skid (longer front arm) in the new chassis. if this new whip combines the best attributes of the SP and the PC... they should have a winner for Cat fans. now, to just convince them to do a 128 RXC without estart. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 20 minutes ago, Premium said: I absolutely agree. That said, there have been major ergonomic advancements over the last two decades that have defined the sport. Cat was late to the party every time. I'm unlucky enough to have a Catalyst 6+ hrs away at any given moment, so I obviously don't have any seat time....so hearing comparisons to the 08-11 sno pro is huge for me, since I do have seat time on that chassis and love it (many of us complained the procross was too relaxed vs the sno pro right off the bat). To your point- the Procross has a lot of things that sound good on paper; a plethora of race wins, strong chassis, laydown motor for centralized mass, etc. Take brand preference out of the equation for a second and go for a "blindfolded" ride a new 2023 Procross 800, then switch immediately to a new 2015 Axys 800 and tell me you wouldn't prefer the Axys. I know I would...and I've come to grips with that. If the Catalyst is a hoot to ride (tbd) and comes with a venerable big bore (tbd), I'll plunk the money down. I can understand people having preferred seating positions/ergos. Not saying that's wrong.. but you could have three sleds with exact same rider triangle and totally different rides once you start moving. Maybe I read it wrong just seemed like I read it as there's no reason to buy one because they've moved closer to a personally preferred seating position that another machine may have so there's no difference between them. And I think there's way more to it. I'm sure many will also ride it and not like it because everyone likes different qualities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said: if the ergonomics are back to 2010, I honestly feel people will really like it and you know that chassis just as well as I do. it has an extremely balanced feel in nearly any situation, imo. having a 2010 500, 2010 720 and 2021 RXC at my disposal this winter... the RXC engine is perfect (cough) but the ergonomics, seat and overall feel (especially while standing) goes hands down to the old SnoPro in comparison. I don't feel I'm able to throw the Procross around as easily, especially at lower speeds in the woods. at high speed, in the ditch hitting driveways at speed the RXC is very planted and predictable, this is not a bad thing. in addition, the RXC skid is better, not a lot but enough to mention it... won't take that away and it was a good move to put that skid (longer front arm) in the new chassis. if this new whip combines the best attributes of the SP and the PC... they should have a winner for Cat fans. now, to just convince them to do a 128 RXC without estart. I'd think it may remind people of the SP in some ways but I think it'll have its own totally unique feel too. Just what I think with nothing to go off. Even just using some different materials will make it feel different. But if it reminds of the SP in some ways I wouldn't complain. Maybe not in the knee murdering ways. The hood alone looks way smaller and lighter, I have thought the procross hood is ridiculously heavy and that's top heavy weight. I think it was that langas guy that said moving the motor down an inch brings everything else down an inch too, which is a good point. Like those heavy pipes that are high up Edited March 23, 2023 by mnstang 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, mnstang said: I'd think it may remind people of the SP in some ways but I think it'll have its own totally unique feel too. Just what I think with nothing to go off. Even just using some different materials will make it feel different. But if it reminds of the SP in some ways I wouldn't complain. Maybe not in the knee murdering ways. The hood alone looks way smaller and lighter, I have thought the procross hood is ridiculously heavy and that's top heavy weight. I think it was that langas guy that said moving the motor down an inch brings everything else down an inch too, which is a good point. Like those heavy pipes that are high up knee pads if you ride the SP aggressively are a must, imo... and although I don't know with any certainty whatsoever I believe the weight of the new sled should fall right in line with the old SP chassis. the PC even with the bigger shield is cooler to ride as the wind comes around the bodywork and I'm doubtful the new chassis is any warmer if the mountain sleds and trail sleds are sharing the same plastics. for me, it's often little nitpicky things I get hung up on but these are a few of my thoughts and concerns with a sled I also haven't thrown a leg over. since I don't think we've actually ever discussed it... how would you compare your RS to your SP and what do you hope to see as an improvement from either of both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Crnr2Crnr said: if the ergonomics are back to 2010, I honestly feel people will really like it and you know that chassis just as well as I do. it has an extremely balanced feel in nearly any situation, imo. having a 2010 500, 2010 720 and 2021 RXC at my disposal this winter... the RXC engine is perfect (cough) but the ergonomics, seat and overall feel (especially while standing) goes hands down to the old SnoPro in comparison. I don't feel I'm able to throw the Procross around as easily, especially at lower speeds in the woods. The feel sitting/standing has me hopeful. As for tossing around, in the woods the 4000rr is way easier but articulating it over whoops and shit in our ditches my assault is way easier to muscle around. The Procross is surely more point shoot and hold on, but if you want to move it the assault even at a 144 is way easier to manipulate. My hope is real simple. Snox feel when standing but something you can sit on. The chassis has potential to do that and if they stay to cats roots maybe that is what we will get. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 35 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said: knee pads if you ride the SP aggressively are a must, imo... and although I don't know with any certainty whatsoever I believe the weight of the new sled should fall right in line with the old SP chassis. the PC even with the bigger shield is cooler to ride as the wind comes around the bodywork and I'm doubtful the new chassis is any warmer if the mountain sleds and trail sleds are sharing the same plastics. for me, it's often little nitpicky things I get hung up on but these are a few of my thoughts and concerns with a sled I also haven't thrown a leg over. since I don't think we've actually ever discussed it... how would you compare your RS to your SP and what do you hope to see as an improvement from either of both? Are the plastic's different? I know the M's it looks like the m is embossed into the side but I haven't studied the two close enough besides that to know if they looked different size or shapy. That would be interesting. I know the m has the dropped driveshaft so the bellies must be a little different and I've heard the plastic boards are the same part but they are mounted in different locations for the different models. I haven't really thought how those two compare. But I'd say the procross feels bigger. I like the procross panels for sit down trail riding, I like how the panel is rounded so I can slide my knee around it in a turn but for the HC being I stand the whole time I thought there was too much room, I like to plant my knees up against it to lock in to the sled. Knee pads help fill that gap but not super ideal for me. Shocks on the RS are way way better but besides that I probably preferred the sp for most riding over the ZR. I am really preferring the ass draggers for trail riding so I don't know what I'd want from the catalyst zr to be honest. I'd like to ride it though to see what it's all about, I did get an invite from my dealer that did a group catalyst ride but it was a Wednesday and I couldnt swing it, I'll hopefully ride one next season I'd think. I have an M coming to replace the high country. I liked the high country alot except in certain instances and then I'd hate it. It was always good on throttle but off throttle or slower in more technical terrain it would be a handful, very front end heavy where it just wants to dive one ski or the other and basically roll over on itself just trying to go straight. Very divey/tippy and unmanageable to go into certain spots because I didn't want to deal with it. So when I heard the snowest guys compare it to the old sled and say ALL the things I didn't like about the HC and the new sled those things were totally gone, I was sold. If it feels smaller overall and lighter that would be a bonus and it sounds like it will. I thought for a half second about getting a riot so I could trail ride it but I remembered that I am not a crossover guy I just want the best trail sled when I trail ride and best offtrail option when I do that. I'm sure you don't care about my offtrail talk but you asked so I answered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrinkly balls Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 2 hours ago, Deephaven said: Well they were way behind so hopefully they caught up. Yes, ski doo is still way behind , polaris finally caught up to the pro cross!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soeaster Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 I look forward to seeing how they hold up next year. I was tempted, but I'll ride my PC one more year. I'll look at the big bore next year but I told myself I'd never buy a first year motor again. Might be going back on that statement. Either way, I'll plan on finding something else whether it's a cat or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR6000RR Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 According to the poop gods, they were paid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 Just now, ZR6000RR said: According to the poop gods, they were paid! You are the only one on here that worships the poop gods. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 9 hours ago, mnstang said: I saw that! Very high praise from Snowtech, who not long ago was telling people to buy Yamaha over Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 Cat still calls it 125hp class and I think some people think that means it's just like the old 600 sled. This guy says it feels more like a 700, I think he's trying to say it feels better than the 650. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 12 hours ago, mnstang said: Are the plastic's different? I know the M's it looks like the m is embossed into the side but I haven't studied the two close enough besides that to know if they looked different size or shapy. That would be interesting. I know the m has the dropped driveshaft so the bellies must be a little different and I've heard the plastic boards are the same part but they are mounted in different locations for the different models. I haven't really thought how those two compare. But I'd say the procross feels bigger. I like the procross panels for sit down trail riding, I like how the panel is rounded so I can slide my knee around it in a turn but for the HC being I stand the whole time I thought there was too much room, I like to plant my knees up against it to lock in to the sled. Knee pads help fill that gap but not super ideal for me. Shocks on the RS are way way better but besides that I probably preferred the sp for most riding over the ZR. I am really preferring the ass draggers for trail riding so I don't know what I'd want from the catalyst zr to be honest. I'd like to ride it though to see what it's all about, I did get an invite from my dealer that did a group catalyst ride but it was a Wednesday and I couldnt swing it, I'll hopefully ride one next season I'd think. I have an M coming to replace the high country. I liked the high country alot except in certain instances and then I'd hate it. It was always good on throttle but off throttle or slower in more technical terrain it would be a handful, very front end heavy where it just wants to dive one ski or the other and basically roll over on itself just trying to go straight. Very divey/tippy and unmanageable to go into certain spots because I didn't want to deal with it. So when I heard the snowest guys compare it to the old sled and say ALL the things I didn't like about the HC and the new sled those things were totally gone, I was sold. If it feels smaller overall and lighter that would be a bonus and it sounds like it will. I thought for a half second about getting a riot so I could trail ride it but I remembered that I am not a crossover guy I just want the best trail sled when I trail ride and best offtrail option when I do that. I'm sure you don't care about my offtrail talk but you asked so I answered. didn't realize you ordered an M shorter skid I'm assuming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 22 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said: didn't realize you ordered an M shorter skid I'm assuming? 146 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 11 hours ago, mnstang said: That's good to hear since those guys haven't said a thing good about cat in a long time. I have a procross which I think was fine for an 18 but never liked the seating position. I wonder how those who like the procross seating position and the wind protection that go with it will like the catalyst? I think I'm going to stick with mine for a couple more years since I can't swing a new one at today's prices for a toy but I might try a different at least. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziemann Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 7 hours ago, Premium said: I think that was probably the most level headed (if a bit pessimistic) review I've seen yet. I definitely liked hearing that the ergonomics and feel of the sled are like a narrower/roomier 08-11 sno pro. He specifically mentions that it doesn't really change the game as Polaris and Doo already have machines that put you much more forward. This lends substantial credibility to the argument that Cat has simply caught up to the competition. Will the belt drive and composite boards be enough to carve out a legacy? If you're not a Cat die-hard, what draws you to this machine? Hopefully next year has more answers. @Premium This is right on. Regardless of what the Green Boner Crew says, this is nothing more than a "Me Too" offering to at least allow Cat to be competitive with Ski-Doo and Polaris. Altho it may be a good offering, it doesn't bring customers back that Cat has been hemorrhaging for years. The Catalyst only increases short term sales to Cat's hardcore remaining customers and prevents further marketshare loss. Regardless of how you look at it- from any angle- the Catalyst offers nothing that isn't already available from their competition. In fact, they are still behind..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziemann Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 15 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said: if the ergonomics are back to 2010, I honestly feel people will really like it and you know that chassis just as well as I do. it has an extremely balanced feel in nearly any situation, imo. having a 2010 500, 2010 720 and 2021 RXC at my disposal this winter... the RXC engine is perfect (cough) but the ergonomics, seat and overall feel (especially while standing) goes hands down to the old SnoPro in comparison. I don't feel I'm able to throw the Procross around as easily, especially at lower speeds in the woods. at high speed, in the ditch hitting driveways at speed the RXC is very planted and predictable, this is not a bad thing. in addition, the RXC skid is better, not a lot but enough to mention it... won't take that away and it was a good move to put that skid (longer front arm) in the new chassis. @Crnr2Crnr To simplify if further, just refer to it as "fun factor". The Procross is a great trail chassis for all of the attributes that we've discussed ad nauseum. But the SnoPro chassis offered something that the Procross couldn't- it was probably the most fun I've ever had. The little Suzuki 500 took abuse like no other engine and ran WOT all day for years on end. You could flog the SnoPro chassis mercilessly- and that entire package held together. What a fun sled, and what a shame that Cat didn't further it's development- they wouldn't have been as far behind as they are today. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 9:45 initial impressions 15:20 initial ride impressions 18:00 the most mountain friendly platform 19:40 comparison to ascender 31:20 not a full size sled 33:45 no similarities to the old cat 36:45 talk if the 600 motor 45:50 belt drive 53:50, more 600 motor talk 59:20 how light does it feel compared to Polaris and skidoo 1:02:20 should I buy a 600 1:13:15 more 600 talk Even for total trail guys I think this is a good listen if you're interested at all in the catalyst. There's a lot of talk that will apply to the trail sleds 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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