jdsky 968 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 15 hours ago, mnstang said: You guys are pretty weird. Saying that it has only just caught up. Weird way if thinking. I'm not saying the catalyst is anything in particular, I haven't ridden one. But I'm not such a simpleton to think that a sled is only a riding position. At least you admit you haven't ridden one. Anyone who has ridden doo or poo for years on different iterations of rider forward chassis' knows the catalyst will not be a game changer and those that have ridden it and can actually compare it to the others have been saying exactly that. Belt drive is not going to make it radically different. Laydown engine and centering the mass (even if it turns out to be a bit more than poo or doo) is not going to make it radically different for the average trail rider. The catalyst may eventually work out to be a better option for riders that own the other brands. It's clear that for now it's the best option for existing cat owners that want a rider forward design. The other shit, belt drive, composite running boards is shit for now that will have zero bearing on changing brands. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mnstang 1,628 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 26 minutes ago, Ziemann said: @Premium This is right on. Regardless of what the Green Boner Crew says, this is nothing more than a "Me Too" offering to at least allow Cat to be competitive with Ski-Doo and Polaris. Altho it may be a good offering, it doesn't bring customers back that Cat has been hemorrhaging for years. The Catalyst only increases short term sales to Cat's hardcore remaining customers and prevents further marketshare loss. Regardless of how you look at it- from any angle- the Catalyst offers nothing that isn't already available from their competition. In fact, they are still behind..... This isn't the place for trolls Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ziemann 589 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 13 minutes ago, jdsky said: At least you admit you haven't ridden one. Anyone who has ridden doo or poo for years on different iterations of rider forward chassis' knows the catalyst will not be a game changer and those that have ridden it and can actually compare it to the others have been saying exactly that. Belt drive is not going to make it radically different. Laydown engine and centering the mass (even if it turns out to be a bit more than poo or doo) is not going to make it radically different for the average trail rider. The catalyst may eventually work out to be a better option for riders that own the other brands. It's clear that for now it's the best option for existing cat owners that want a rider forward design. The other shit, belt drive, composite running boards is shit for now that will have zero bearing on changing brands. Everyone but the hardcore Green Boner Crowd seem to realize that. Again, update the display, offer more accessory options, greater engine options, and make it widely available/ reliable -- and I'll gladly give it a close look. I'd gladly go back to Cat if they offer something that Polaris doesn't have. Right now having belt drive doesn't motivate me at all..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ziemann 589 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 14 minutes ago, mnstang said: This isn't the place for trolls Not a troll at all. Just a reality check..... What do you think a loyal Ski-Doo or Polaris customer will see in the Catalyst to get them to switch brands? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Premium 218 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 I don't think the belt drive will necessarily be enough to pull people from other brands, but assuming the durability is there it does offer some distinct advantages for those like myself that like to tinker. If I buy a future big bore Catalyst I will definitely purchase a secondary track and gear combo...swapping "on-the-fly" for conditions or trip destination will be effortless in comparison to a chaincase setup. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jdsky 968 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Completely agree that when the engine options are there and the reliability of the platform overall becomes a complete non-factor the belt drive will be a nice to have feature. If these things become reality I will be a buyer again but I would hope the dealer network issue/s get resolved prior to. At the moment I have 3 possible dealers to purchase from and they carry every brand but cat right now. One option to fix that would be if Yamaha gets the new chassis. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deephaven 6,864 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 6 minutes ago, Ziemann said: What do you think a loyal Ski-Doo or Polaris customer will see in the Catalyst to get them to switch brands? This is a really good question although you can remove the "loyal" from the question to make it better. Obviously Cat could have a 50 year old chassis that is awful and Jim will buy one and there are Poo & Doo customers that are equally as biased. Those types will never switch, but the rest? What does the Catalyst bring? Focusing on trail only...What I see is that for the Doo crew or anti-Poo guys it is an option that works for larger riders and is still comfortable. For the Poo crowd I am not sure what they added would make them switch. Cat needs to know what these features are and market them. All of us on here should already know. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ziemann 589 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 @Premium Hell, a lot of people have no idea how to wrench on a sled any more. In the old days it was a necessity. So, few will see the same benefit of belt drive for track changes, etc as you do. I agree with you 100%, but I think you are the exception more than the rule. Hell, I hardly turn a wrench on a sled any more. I don't need to. I also don't work on other people's sleds any more. Reliability is excellent, and outside of preventative preseason maintenance, I rarely touch a sled now. I do miss tinkering. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ziemann 589 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 2 minutes ago, Deephaven said: For the Poo crowd I am not sure what they added would make them switch. Cat needs to know what these features are and market them. All of us on here should already know. Perfectly stated @Deephaven. Because a "I saw it on the internet", "I read it on Supertrax", or because Jim Ramstad said so?????? Again, the Catalyst is cool, but once the newness wears off, are we going to care? REALLY- where's the novelty in it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mnstang 1,628 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 17 minutes ago, Ziemann said: Not a troll at all. Just a reality check..... What do you think a loyal Ski-Doo or Polaris customer will see in the Catalyst to get them to switch brands? The reality is I don't give a shit. Go to the the troll thread if you want to bash. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ziemann 589 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Again- not a troll at all. I think it's an honest question. And it has to be frustrating to not be able to answer that question. Because @Deephaven is 100% right. You should be able to. Polaris certainly has some work to do to overcome the recalls, stop rides, delayed deliveries, and parts limitations. So the door is open for the Catalyst to recapture marketshare. The question is how? No one seems to be able to answer that. It's more likely that Ski-Doo will continue to grow at the expense of Polaris, than Cat growing at the expense of Polaris. I was there just like everyone else for the Hay Days release- but when you objectively look at it? The engine has promise, but no one trusts it yet. The belt drive has promise, but no one really seems all that interested in it. The chassis is reportedly really fun and handles great- but that is subjective. Instrumentation is very weak. Accessories and spring ordering options are very limited. Cost is high- but so is the cost of every sled. I was very happy with Cat's 600's in my RR's and Roger Skime. So, as long as the new 600 has the same reliability, it should be a winner for someone like me. As I get older, I can no longer ride like I used to- so a 600 is now enough for me. Unfortunately, the market wants a 850 class motor and the 600 class motor appeals to a significantly smaller crowd. Not a troll- just a reality check. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ZR6000RR 286 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 I rode it and it is the real deal. I rode the Poo 650 after and the Cat was just better in every way. The belt drive is awesome. Reason why I ordered it along with the running boards. I could give a shit about the gauge. It gives me everything I need. I have my Tread that I will mount to it when it shows up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deephaven 6,864 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 15 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said: I rode it and it is the real deal. I rode the Poo 650 after and the Cat was just better in every way. The belt drive is awesome. Reason why I ordered it along with the running boards. I could give a shit about the gauge. It gives me everything I need. I have my Tread that I will mount to it when it shows up. Translation of "better in every way" for you is "no matter the differences I would have preferred the Cat". The real question you should ask yourself is riding the ProCross back to back with the Catalyst and then tell us what you like better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Premium 218 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 24 minutes ago, Deephaven said: Translation of "better in every way" for you is "no matter the differences I would have preferred the Cat". The real question you should ask yourself is riding the ProCross back to back with the Catalyst and then tell us what you like better. Now the "ugly fake ski-doo photoshop" bests every sled in every way, even the procross which was already perfect in every way 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crnr2Crnr 6,847 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 hour ago, Ziemann said: @Crnr2Crnr To simplify if further, just refer to it as "fun factor". The Procross is a great trail chassis for all of the attributes that we've discussed ad nauseum. But the SnoPro chassis offered something that the Procross couldn't- it was probably the most fun I've ever had. The little Suzuki 500 took abuse like no other engine and ran WOT all day for years on end. You could flog the SnoPro chassis mercilessly- and that entire package held together. What a fun sled, and what a shame that Cat didn't further it's development- they wouldn't have been as far behind as they are today. love it as much or more than when I got it with 600 miles on it. Have a complete spare top end sitting on the shelf... for IDK, 10k miles? VID_20230319_170107079.mp4 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mnstang 1,628 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 hour ago, Ziemann said: Again- not a troll at all. I think it's an honest question. And it has to be frustrating to not be able to answer that question. Because @Deephaven is 100% right. You should be able to. Polaris certainly has some work to do to overcome the recalls, stop rides, delayed deliveries, and parts limitations. So the door is open for the Catalyst to recapture marketshare. The question is how? No one seems to be able to answer that. It's more likely that Ski-Doo will continue to grow at the expense of Polaris, than Cat growing at the expense of Polaris. I was there just like everyone else for the Hay Days release- but when you objectively look at it? The engine has promise, but no one trusts it yet. The belt drive has promise, but no one really seems all that interested in it. The chassis is reportedly really fun and handles great- but that is subjective. Instrumentation is very weak. Accessories and spring ordering options are very limited. Cost is high- but so is the cost of every sled. I was very happy with Cat's 600's in my RR's and Roger Skime. So, as long as the new 600 has the same reliability, it should be a winner for someone like me. As I get older, I can no longer ride like I used to- so a 600 is now enough for me. Unfortunately, the market wants a 850 class motor and the 600 class motor appeals to a significantly smaller crowd. Not a troll- just a reality check. Don't care about marketshare or why other people might buy one because I'm not a loser like you people are. If I was a loser and did care about that, there are plenty of things I could point to. You could start by listening to any and every review if you want a long list of praises. I'm not playing your stupid troll game where you ask some dumbass question about 'marketshare' so then it turns into an endless back and forth where you're shitting on something in a brand forum but 'not trolling'. This is a brand forum not the HCS toilet forum. If people are posting here it's because they don't want to deal with your BS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crnr2Crnr 6,847 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 3 hours ago, mnstang said: 9:45 initial impressions 15:20 initial ride impressions 18:00 the most mountain friendly platform 19:40 comparison to ascender 31:20 not a full size sled 33:45 no similarities to the old cat 36:45 talk if the 600 motor 45:50 belt drive 53:50, more 600 motor talk 59:20 how light does it feel compared to Polaris and skidoo 1:02:20 should I buy a 600 1:13:15 more 600 talk Even for total trail guys I think this is a good listen if you're interested at all in the catalyst. There's a lot of talk that will apply to the trail sleds giving it a listen about 30 minutes in... pretty negative commentary on the Proclimb/Ascender thusfar. so far they sound very positive about the new chassis... for the mountains Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deephaven 6,864 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 11 minutes ago, mnstang said: Don't care about marketshare or why other people might buy one because I'm not a loser like you people are. If I was a loser and did care about that, there are plenty of things I could point to. Marketshare is important for a brand to survive. I would define a loser as someone who has blind loyalty whether that be to a brand, a politician, or pretty much anything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Art Vandelay 105 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 11 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said: giving it a listen about 30 minutes in... pretty negative commentary on the Proclimb/Ascender thusfar. so far they sound very positive about the new chassis... for the mountains Cat really dropped the ball on the mountain sled starting in 2012. Going from the front runner to dead last. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crnr2Crnr 6,847 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 39 minutes ago, Art Vandelay said: Cat really dropped the ball on the mountain sled starting in 2012. Going from the front runner to dead last. IDK as I'm not a mountain rider, but after listening to the entire SW podcast, they really and truly seem excited about this new platform even with a 600... which Cat desperately needed. so, good job Textron engineers 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
p51mstg 630 Posted March 24 Author Share Posted March 24 I see way more reasons to be optimistic and the Catalyst than pessimistic. It's a good sled, and I'm happy for Cat for bringing it to market. I have congratulated everyone at Cat that I have a direct e-mail for. Other than my Polaris stock, which will continue to make me money, I've got no skin in the game and no ego to feed. The Catalyst is a good sled, and it's cool to see people have the same reaction I did after they ride one. I would've bought a couple of them this spring, had I been able to afford it. The only other one I'd be interested in would be a Polaris Matryx 650 137 of some flavor, if only I could demo one first. But, that's a story I've told many times, including to Polaris, a company I own, in more ways than one. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EBEAR 12 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 On 3/23/2023 at 4:44 PM, Deephaven said: Any sled I can't make that transition on easily is not one I can own. I am 5' tall on my knees... Ha I would already be standing up in your seating position . lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mnstang 1,628 Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Cat 2024 accessory catalog is out. Country cat has prices on the part numbers. I think I'll get the high country tunnel pack and maybe a rear bumper. I see it has a new cvt belt 0626-131. I wonder if the catalysts will come with a tool kit? I think it was 2020 when they stopped including them. Maybe they brought them back again since then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crnr2Crnr 6,847 Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 9 hours ago, mnstang said: Cat 2024 accessory catalog is out. Country cat has prices on the part numbers. I think I'll get the high country tunnel pack and maybe a rear bumper. I see it has a new cvt belt 0626-131. I wonder if the catalysts will come with a tool kit? I think it was 2020 when they stopped including them. Maybe they brought them back again since then. sticking with the stock front bumper? I would think off trail I'd want a bit more coverage than the grab handle but... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mnstang 1,628 Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 49 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said: sticking with the stock front bumper? I would think off trail I'd want a bit more coverage than the grab handle but... I'll have to see. Maybe look at one in person and if it looks cool. I run over alot of brush but not really anything that causes damage 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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