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p51mstg

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I'm not really a fan of SledHead24-7, even though I know the guy is well respected, has been a round a long time and is a Minnesotan.  Most of his videos are really fluffy, without a lot of detail.  However, I thought this was really good - finally, a look under the hood with details:

Troy's remarks are very good, too:

 

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2 hours ago, p51mstg said:

I'm not really a fan of SledHead24-7, even though I know the guy is well respected, has been a round a long time and is a Minnesotan.  Most of his videos are really fluffy, even fluffier than SnowTrax.  However, I thought this was really good - finally, a look under the hood with details:

https://youtu.be/cPWNNHyZ22Y

 

Troy's remarks are very good, too:

 

I really don't care that much about looking under the hood.  I'd much rather listen to riding impressions.  I think the snowest guys did the best at talking about that hands down.

One thing I'd prefer on the final belt drive is a tensioner.  The eccentric race bearing sounds like a good idea until you realize it is moving the whole jackshaft which is moving the secondary clutch.  It may not be much but for the OCD people that spend many many hours late nights in the garage getting their clutch parallel perfect to the couple thousandths, moving the jackshaft around all willy nilly is crude.  They could have just fixed the jackshaft and put a simple spring tensioner in there and I think that'd be better for everything.  I'd take that half pound weight penalty for the serviceability you'd get.

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32 minutes ago, mnstang said:

I really don't care that much about looking under the hood.  I'd much rather listen to riding impressions.  I think the snowest guys did the best at talking about that hands down.

One thing I'd prefer on the final belt drive is a tensioner.  The eccentric race bearing sounds like a good idea until you realize it is moving the whole jackshaft which is moving the secondary clutch.  It may not be much but for the OCD people that spend many many hours late nights in the garage getting their clutch parallel perfect to the couple thousandths, moving the jackshaft around all willy nilly is crude.  They could have just fixed the jackshaft and put a simple spring tensioner in there and I think that'd be better for everything.  I'd take that half pound weight penalty for the serviceability you'd get.

You do realize these belts do not stretch? Keep it simple which is what they did. Have you ridden one? Tore into it? Relax! No more chaincase is a huge win!

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1 hour ago, ZR6000RR said:

You do realize these belts do not stretch? Keep it simple which is what they did. Have you ridden one? Tore into it? Relax! No more chaincase is a huge win!

Yes they don't stretch, I figure that's obvious.  Few belts do stretch. What are you trying to point out by saying that?

I have not ridden one or tore into one and am perfectly relaxed.  Are you saying I can't talk about the catalyst if I haven't ridden it or tore into it?   Have you done those things?

I think belt drive has potential to be good, but I do not love how they tension the belt by moving the entire jackshaft.

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Just now, mnstang said:

Yes they don't stretch, I figure that's obvious.  Few belts do stretch. What are you trying to point out by saying that?

I have not ridden one or tore into one and am perfectly relaxed.  Are you saying I can't talk about the catalyst if I haven't ridden it or tore into it?   Have you done those things?

I think belt drive has potential to be good, but I do not love how they tension the belt by moving the entire jackshaft.

Not at all. What I am trying to say is it seems people like to over think things. Using the style they are using to me makes sense. The clutch side will adjust accordingly in my eyes as the Jack shaft is fixed on that side. Opinion only. I have never blown a belt on any of my ProCross sleds. Have never had a belt wear enough to change one in fact.

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14 hours ago, mnstang said:

I really don't care that much about looking under the hood.  I'd much rather listen to riding impressions.  I think the snowest guys did the best at talking about that hands down.

One thing I'd prefer on the final belt drive is a tensioner.  The eccentric race bearing sounds like a good idea until you realize it is moving the whole jackshaft which is moving the secondary clutch.  It may not be much but for the OCD people that spend many many hours late nights in the garage getting their clutch parallel perfect to the couple thousandths, moving the jackshaft around all willy nilly is crude.  They could have just fixed the jackshaft and put a simple spring tensioner in there and I think that'd be better for everything.  I'd take that half pound weight penalty for the serviceability you'd get.

I think the bearing -vs- tensioner is a valid concern.  As you mentioned, it must’ve been a weight savings and that’s why they went that direction.  At the photo shoot, I think it was Todd Tupper who said there was more weight savings planned before the sleds went into production, compared to the ones we rode.  So, they’re taking every little bit they can.

Our experience at the photo shoot was to get on and ride.  They’d tell us when to be somewhere, we’d go get our assigned sled and it would already be warmed up and fueled.  So, we never had time to poke around.  That’s why I enjoyed the videos above - answered a lot of my own questions.

Troy’s comment about the progressive  steering makes sense now.  At every corner, I felt like turning was too easy, like the skis lost their bite, but then it would dig in.  Once you get used to it, you find yourself cornering quite a bit faster than the ProCross, and the inside ski stayed planted.  I started experimenting, to see if I could mishandle the sled bad enough that the inside ski would come up, and I found that I could do it, but I actually had to work at it.

It’s hard to explain.  Steering was easier - like, doolies easier - bit it dug in and turned without understeer.  Hopefully, that makes sense.

The last Catalyst I rode before leaving was the Riot, and two days later I was back to riding my own Riot.  I had trouble going back, it’s a different kind of riding.  The Catalyst handles better with less effort than mine, and that first ride back home was difficult.

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9 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

Not at all. What I am trying to say is it seems people like to over think things. Using the style they are using to me makes sense. The clutch side will adjust accordingly in my eyes as the Jack shaft is fixed on that side. Opinion only. I have never blown a belt on any of my ProCross sleds. Have never had a belt wear enough to change one in fact.

It will change the angle of the secondary clutch.  I would not say I am over thinking anything.  It took me about one second to think about that.  It's something I don't exactly like about it.  I think I am allowed to have thoughts about the catalyst, good or bad.  I'm not saying it means it's a piece of junk although I think I'm allowed to think that also if I want... If that's ok with you.  I think about things, that's how I get through this world I'm not just a blind idiot.  If I can sell a sled I'll be ordering a catalyst in a month.  That doesn't mean I can't say I don't like something about it.  

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13 hours ago, mnstang said:

I really don't care that much about looking under the hood.  I'd much rather listen to riding impressions.  I think the snowest guys did the best at talking about that hands down.

One thing I'd prefer on the final belt drive is a tensioner.  The eccentric race bearing sounds like a good idea until you realize it is moving the whole jackshaft which is moving the secondary clutch.  It may not be much but for the OCD people that spend many many hours late nights in the garage getting their clutch parallel perfect to the couple thousandths, moving the jackshaft around all willy nilly is crude.  They could have just fixed the jackshaft and put a simple spring tensioner in there and I think that'd be better for everything.  I'd take that half pound weight penalty for the serviceability you'd get.

Yeah I def hear you on that. 

I wonder if between the auto-tension of the current drive system combined with the shims in the secondary you can still achieve a basically perfect center distance? A tensioner would be easier for sure though. Or, just have a specific belt for specific gear combinations and leave the jackshaft alone.

 

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10 hours ago, mnstang said:

It will change the angle of the secondary clutch.  I would not say I am over thinking anything.  It took me about one second to think about that.  It's something I don't exactly like about it.  I think I am allowed to have thoughts about the catalyst, good or bad.  I'm not saying it means it's a piece of junk although I think I'm allowed to think that also if I want... If that's ok with you.  I think about things, that's how I get through this world I'm not just a blind idiot.  If I can sell a sled I'll be ordering a catalyst in a month.  That doesn't mean I can't say I don't like something about it.  

Dont be so serious. 99% of the buyers wont even think about changing the gearing anyway. From what I have heard, the open sleds in racing,cor series, are using this belt drive. Have not heard of any failures. My guess is it works just fine, but time will tell. I am not sure the angle will really change as the TCL bearing does not move like the case side does. 

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12 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

Dont be so serious. 99% of the buyers wont even think about changing the gearing anyway. From what I have heard, the open sleds in racing,cor series, are using this belt drive. Have not heard of any failures. My guess is it works just fine, but time will tell. I am not sure the angle will really change as the TCL bearing does not move like the case side does. 

I would just prefer to do it the proper way.  Which in my eyes is not moving the jackshaft at one end.  And now that I've thought about it for one additional second, it would change the angle at the gear side also.

How can you say it would change the angle?  If you take a solid shaft and only move one end of the shaft and the other end is fixed, the angle of the shaft changes.  Which means anything that is mounted to shaft changes the angle.  It is no longer true or square and won't be as efficient.  That's blueprinting 101 it's pretty simple.

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Just now, mnstang said:

I would just prefer to do it the proper way.  Which in my eyes is not moving the jackshaft at one end.  And now that I've thought about it for one additional second, it would change the angle at the gear side also.

How can you say it would change the angle?  If you take a solid shaft and only move one end of the shaft and the other end is fixed, the angle of the shaft changes.  Which means anything that is mounted to shaft changes the angle.  It is no longer true or square and won't be as efficient.  That's blueprinting 101 it's pretty simple.

The TCL does not flex so the clutches should always be in line. That is what I know. The motor and clutches move as one, and the little bit of movement in my opinion is not going to effect anything. Again, will see. I will have one next fall. 

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23 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

Not at all. What I am trying to say is it seems people like to over think things. Using the style they are using to me makes sense. The clutch side will adjust accordingly in my eyes as the Jack shaft is fixed on that side. Opinion only. I have never blown a belt on any of my ProCross sleds. Have never had a belt wear enough to change one in fact.

Damn, I budgeted a belt a day for racing.  

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9 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

I will have one next fall. 

wager on that Fall delivery?

6 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

Well I don't race 3500 on my 18 and the belt still looks brand new

riding at a whopping 50mph... I would suspect it should last forever

how often do you remove and clean your clutches?

I don't go any longer than 1K on a belt, but mine don't have a roller primary and I actually whack the throttle

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2 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

wager on that Fall delivery?

riding at a whopping 50mph... I would suspect it should last forever

how often do you remove and clean your clutches?

I don't go any longer than 1K on a belt, but mine don't have a roller primary and I actually whack the throttle

Never remove them. Blow them out every spring.

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I wouldn't even carry one with 3500 on it as a spare.  It's so worn you are leaving a ton of performance on the table and risking a blow up which can do more than just make you need a new belt.  You obviously ride like a bitch, but considering you are one that makes sense.

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3 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

Never remove them. Blow them out every spring.

explain to me how to blow out the primary without removing the cover or the secondary without removing it completely and disassembling it? 

🤔

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15 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

The TCL does not flex so the clutches should always be in line. That is what I know. The motor and clutches move as one, and the little bit of movement in my opinion is not going to effect anything. Again, will see. I will have one next fall. 

Pick up a pencil.  Hold one side in place (TCL).  Move the other side (gear side). Does the angle of the pencil change.

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43 minutes ago, mnstang said:

Pick up a pencil.  Hold one side in place (TCL).  Move the other side (gear side). Does the angle of the pencil change.

It may but the TCL side, both the primary and secondary should be parallel. 

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