Crnr2Crnr Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 6 minutes ago, taperk600 said: I can say @Palu49's 2019 600 LTD 137, when I owned it at least, was bone stock, had the TALL window, ice ripper track, and was consistently high 90s-100 sled. Honestly all stock motor and clutching. Even yesterday when it was brought along for a day in the snow and not being regulated to the back corner like a red-headed step child, it was seeing low 90s...with the Catalyst secondary on it...................maybe it was all the glitter on it...... However, I don't think there is a Catalyst 600 on the snow that has run like that STOCK. At least none that any of us have been talking about...... My blue 137 ATAC yesterday was seeing high 90s, but isn't stock. D&D reflash, Y, clutching. Trying a different flash yesterday with the stock can VS their quiet can...so slightly different than last time I rode. Still in the 130s hp. We didn't line up any sleds except for my 650 VR1 (D&D Y & clutching) and my Catalyst, so can't tell you how badly my Catalyst would have beat the 19 in a draggy..... but if just comparing top end to top end, they were both seeing 90+. There is many ways to skin a CAT (all pun intended).... and looking at just top end isn't the whole story. As we all know..... good feedback... as always personally top end isn't a priority for me. would be interesting to set one up on 8T 2.52 drivers, a good hooking track and possibly mountain gearing just to see what happens on the lower end of the spectrum. I chuckle a bit as the D&D 720 SP is all of 130hp+, weighs about the same and there's an abundance of gearing options. In a few years I'll even be able to take it on vintage rides. Emailed Hygear out of curiosity to see what's in the pipeline for the Catalyst (there's nothing on their website atm) but haven't heard anything back yet. Looking at the current Axis shock prices... is alarming. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 16 hours ago, favoritos said: That's great info. I did the same thing with weights. Dang glad I found the altitude kit pricing. The Cat profile isn't too bad and they have held up longer than adjustables in my experience. I like the SLP Magnum adjustable weights (Polaris) and haven't had any reliability issues. Use them a little different than just adding the stock set screws that come with the weights. Use a combination of aluminum, steel and Tungsten set screws where you can not only change the weight of the weight but also move the weight from the tip to the heel by using the different materials of set screws. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) 4 hours ago, jonlafon1 said: LESS helix angle.. I agree somewhat on the primary spring but the helix angle will determine backshift more. Yes I agree it can effect it more depending how much of a change. But differently, as other things change then too and you don't get the same nature of change with the different changes. Another reason to not go (unnecessarily) heavy is because inefficiency goes up and up the heavier you go. Edited February 6 by mnstang 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonlafon1 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 7 minutes ago, mnstang said: Another reason to not go (unnecessarily) heavy is because inefficiency goes up and up the heavier you go. AGREE, I actually prefer lighter primary weights and a bigger helix generally speaking, but this cattle ass needs to be LOADED or complete change in secondary helix/spring. I run heavy hitters in all my sleds and they are always lighter then stock or oem weight >>>> more efficient !! They "act" 3-5 grams heavier then they are.. And you nailed it in your post about efficiency. IMO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palu49 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 @taperk600 You weren’t supposed to tell anyone about the glitter! I went back today with the stock helix and 65 weights, ran about 50-100 rpms less up top but still got rid of the wall until about 88-90 then it stopped hard. The stock snocross (56-49) helix made it pull harder on the hit but it would shift out to the 48 ramp and bog again. I have the high altitudes and a spring coming to try I think the 64s might be mint. I saw 96 GPS today, fresh groom and it got solid overnight. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonlafon1 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 18 minutes ago, Palu49 said: @taperk600 You weren’t supposed to tell anyone about the glitter! I went back today with the stock helix and 65 weights, ran about 50-100 rpms less up top but still got rid of the wall until about 88-90 then it stopped hard. The stock snocross (56-49) helix made it pull harder on the hit but it would shift out to the 48 ramp and bog again. I have the high altitudes and a spring coming to try I think the 64s might be mint. I saw 96 GPS today, fresh groom and it got solid overnight. What spring in the secondary with that 56/49 ?? Definitely you have found the high end on weight in the primary.. For the stock helix. Im just liking the fact that someone can run this sled on snow and tune the clutching.. Thanks for update.. . Thinking 64 OR maybe even 63 grams for a good drop in improvement for clutching if your just looking for a simple improvement without changing alot from stock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palu49 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, jonlafon1 said: What spring in the secondary with that 56/49 ?? Definitely you have found the high end on weight in the primary.. For the stock helix. Im just liking the fact that someone can run this sled on snow and tune the clutching.. Thanks for update.. . Thinking 64 OR maybe even 63 grams for a good drop in improvement for clutching if your just looking for a simple improvement without changing alot from stock. Stock spring I brought the torx with me to switch the 155/220 over but I forgot the adapts have an Allen screw on them that no Allen key fits on them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 5 hours ago, Palu49 said: @taperk600 You weren’t supposed to tell anyone about the glitter! I went back today with the stock helix and 65 weights, ran about 50-100 rpms less up top but still got rid of the wall until about 88-90 then it stopped hard. The stock snocross (56-49) helix made it pull harder on the hit but it would shift out to the 48 ramp and bog again. I have the high altitudes and a spring coming to try I think the 64s might be mint. I saw 96 GPS today, fresh groom and it got solid overnight. have asked previously but what's the realistic 1:1 top speed of the 600 RXCs? going back dozens of pages and from fuzzy memory @krom and I pointed out there's a difference in (I believe) gearing and the final drive cogs between the RXC and std ZR. @taperk600's @Not greg b's and your sled I believe have a different final drive ratio. so this said (and a few adult beverages) into the convo who is consistently pulling 1:1 or better? considering race teams on ice aren't getting where they desire on the big end leads me back to gearing and/or the final drive ratio. in addition... (sigh) how big is the secondary clutch diameter to drive into vs previous models to drive into which also effects the final drive ratio. in other news... I opened the trailer this evening after cleaning dog shit off the lawn, looked at both sleds and had an Italian American moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 https://youtu.be/jS5AowWu_Sg?feature=shared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palu49 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said: have asked previously but what's the realistic 1:1 top speed of the 600 RXCs? going back dozens of pages and from fuzzy memory @krom and I pointed out there's a difference in (I believe) gearing and the final drive cogs between the RXC and std ZR. @taperk600's @Not greg b's and your sled I believe have a different final drive ratio. so this said (and a few adult beverages) into the convo who is consistently pulling 1:1 or better? considering race teams on ice aren't getting where they desire on the big end leads me back to gearing and/or the final drive ratio. in addition... (sigh) how big is the secondary clutch diameter to drive into vs previous models to drive into which also effects the final drive ratio. in other news... I opened the trailer this evening after cleaning dog shit off the lawn, looked at both sleds and had an Italian American moment 112mph I believe. @krom posted them all somewhere on here. I think 100mph actual on snow is very possible for this sled and I think this and 650 Matryx sleds would open a lot of goobers up to the idea of not needing 850s for so reason if they are setup properly. edit: I believe the race teams have team tied jackshaft converted them if I were to guess. I don’t think the final drive is the issue but the shitty Boss style secondary Edited February 7 by Palu49 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palu49 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 26 minutes ago, mnstang said: https://youtu.be/jS5AowWu_Sg?feature=shared Look at the an arms on all 3 sleds in that video and tell me why the fuck ski doo can’t figure out what’s wrong with those piles of shit. Their fit and finish also blows you have to fold the panels in half to get them lined up and locked in on the Gen 4 and Gen 5. Polaris f&f is probably the nicest overall but there isn’t anything wrong with the catalyst or even the PC in that category either. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krom Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 19 minutes ago, Palu49 said: Look at the an arms on all 3 sleds in that video and tell me why the fuck ski doo can’t figure out what’s wrong with those piles of shit. Their fit and finish also blows you have to fold the panels in half to get them lined up and locked in on the Gen 4 and Gen 5. Polaris f&f is probably the nicest overall but there isn’t anything wrong with the catalyst or even the PC in that category either. here is a chart at 8200 rpm: I even highlighted the stock setups 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 21 minutes ago, Palu49 said: Look at the an arms on all 3 sleds in that video and tell me why the fuck ski doo can’t figure out what’s wrong with those piles of shit. Their fit and finish also blows you have to fold the panels in half to get them lined up and locked in on the Gen 4 and Gen 5. Polaris f&f is probably the nicest overall but there isn’t anything wrong with the catalyst or even the PC in that category either. Skidoos are just butt ass ugly and I hate everything about that company. KTM of sleds 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not greg b Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, Crnr2Crnr said: have asked previously but what's the realistic 1:1 top speed of the 600 RXCs? going back dozens of pages and from fuzzy memory @krom and I pointed out there's a difference in (I believe) gearing and the final drive cogs between the RXC and std ZR. @taperk600's @Not greg b's and your sled I believe have a different final drive ratio. so this said (and a few adult beverages) into the convo who is consistently pulling 1:1 or better? considering race teams on ice aren't getting where they desire on the big end leads me back to gearing and/or the final drive ratio. in addition... (sigh) how big is the secondary clutch diameter to drive into vs previous models to drive into which also effects the final drive ratio. in other news... I opened the trailer this evening after cleaning dog shit off the lawn, looked at both sleds and had an Italian American moment The final drive ratio issue is not the issue on the trail sled. Most of the performance problem is in the clutching. You can feel the heat coming off the clutch and the thing walls around 80, makes noise and quits pulling. It’s not out of gear at 80. A 600 procross with the same engine had no problem stock running up into the mid 90s with out walling and taking 2 miles of screaming rpms to get there. A friend of mine has a calculator from team that estimates all diameters, ect and tells you the what the end result will be. A 44/40 helix in cat compression clutches worked for almost 20 years. Something like a 46/42 in a catalyst will be close to the 44/40 according to that calculator. The 48 straight is a common helix for the boss so that’s why people threw it in there to try and it is working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palu49 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 16 minutes ago, mnstang said: Skidoos are just butt ass ugly and I hate everything about that company. KTM of sleds Same but I’ve ridden them to give them a chance, and they suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not greg b Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, mnstang said: Skidoos are just butt ass ugly and I hate everything about that company. KTM of sleds I think arctic cat would be the ktm of sleds. They build the Yamahas and the skidoo youth sleds. I am sure they can find something to build for Polaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR6000RR Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 7 minutes ago, Not greg b said: I think arctic cat would be the ktm of sleds. They build the Yamahas and the skidoo youth sleds. I am sure they can find something to build for Polaris 120's and 200"s. Are you really this simple? Pretty sure sled wise, they laugh at Polaris. I do! That should get them going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not greg b Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 8 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said: 120's and 200"s. Are you really this simple? Pretty sure sled wise, they laugh at Polaris. I do! That should get them going. It’s really that simple to be ktm. It’s what they are doing in the dirt bike world. Build anything anyone else wants to buy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not greg b Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 10 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said: good feedback... as always personally top end isn't a priority for me. would be interesting to set one up on 8T 2.52 drivers, a good hooking track and possibly mountain gearing just to see what happens on the lower end of the spectrum. I chuckle a bit as the D&D 720 SP is all of 130hp+, weighs about the same and there's an abundance of gearing options. In a few years I'll even be able to take it on vintage rides. Emailed Hygear out of curiosity to see what's in the pipeline for the Catalyst (there's nothing on their website atm) but haven't heard anything back yet. Looking at the current Axis shock prices... is alarming. The 129 catalyst will hole shot anything in the trail class right now. The only thing that would beat on it is a straight up Sno cross sled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR6000RR Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Just now, Not greg b said: The 129 catalyst will hole shot anything in the trail class right now. The only thing that would beat on it is a straight up Sno cross sled. If all you want is top end, Thunder! For us that actually ride? I will probably never see past 80. Could give a fuck less. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinfarmer Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 26 minutes ago, Not greg b said: It’s really that simple to be ktm. It’s what they are doing in the dirt bike world. Build anything anyone else wants to buy I just want them to option up the RXC thru the race program as well as Polaris options up their Cross Country. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not greg b Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 24 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said: If all you want is top end, Thunder! For us that actually ride? I will probably never see past 80. Could give a fuck less. A 12 year old procross 600 with basically the same engine wasn’t this shitty out of the box. So you are saying it is good cat went backwards?? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR6000RR Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 9 minutes ago, Not greg b said: A 12 year old procross 600 with basically the same engine wasn’t this shitty out of the box. So you are saying it is good cat went backwards?? No. You are just one unlucky bastard. I have zero interest in top end, btw. You proved you could fuck up a wet dream. Have your dad buy you an RXC next time maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not greg b Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 15 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said: No. You are just one unlucky bastard. I have zero interest in top end, btw. You proved you could fuck up a wet dream. Have your dad buy you an RXC next time maybe. My dad doesn’t buy me shit. You are pissed that I am right. It’s wild some other members shoved off the shelf common cat parts from 10 years ago and the sled wakes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, Not greg b said: I think arctic cat would be the ktm of sleds. They build the Yamahas and the skidoo youth sleds. I am sure they can find something to build for Polaris That's not what I meant at all, you probably need to understand the moto world to get it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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