Are electric cars really as good as they say?

[racer254]

Lets remember to take into consideration:

Producing a 75 kilowatt-hour battery for a Tesla Model 3, considered on the larger end of batteries for electric vehicles, would result in the emission of 4,500 kilograms of CO2 if it was made at Tesla's battery factory in Nevada. That’s the emissions equivalent to driving a gas-powered sedan for 1.4 years, at a yearly average distance of 12,000 miles, Hausfather said.

If the battery were made in Asia, manufacturing it would produce 7,500 kg of carbon dioxide, or the equivalent of driving a gasoline-powered sedan for 2.4 years

[Rod]

If they ever invent a battery that doesn’t suck I’d try one 

[airflite1]

It they would work in my area I'd have one, but the lack of milage in cold weather and charging stations for trips, I don't  see them as viable yet but then again if I lived in the city I'd have one in a heartbeat. 

[hayward]

What is the life span of the battery?

[XCR1250]

The Main Problems That Electric Car Owners Face

BY ARTUR NOVICHENKO

 

There are more problems with EV ownership than you might think.

 

 

The increase in sales of electric vehicles is one of the primary goals in the fight against climate change. In 2019, greenhouse gas emissions from vehicles were the largest contributor of U.S. greenhouse emissions, accounting for roughly 29 percent of the total U.S. greenhouse gas emissions. Electric vehicle sales are expected to grow to 29.5% of all new car sales in 2030. By comparison, the expected growth in sales of electric vehicles in 2021 is 3.4%.

 

 

Electric vehicles are becoming more and more popular. And the forecast for 2040 is that they will take 57% of all passenger vehicle sales. Electric car sales grow every month, but there are some inconveniences for EV owners. The main problems include risks of fire, and that EVs are not safe. There is the case of too much high-tech wizardry, charger compatibility, vehicle costs, and financing of charging stations, just to name a few. Lets's take a look at all of them.

Risk Of Fire

 

 

EV’s battery temperature operation range (15℃ to 45℃) is lower than ICE vehicle’s battery (-30℃ to 50℃). The EV battery components are easily flammable. That’s why the fire can start at any time, and we have seen this happen many times. Manufacturers tried to overcome this problem by separating the battery into smaller cells with firewalls to avoid thermal runaway from occurring. Other manufacturers try to produce batteries with less flammable components, which produce as few harmful chemicals as possible. There has been progress, but nothing that is 100% fail proof as yet. In the future, solid state batteries will help reduce this risk, though.

 

 

No Guaranteed Safety

 

 

In contrast to the well-known opinion, EVs may be less safe than ICE vehicles. Actually, if it lights up, it is more dangerous in comparison with ICE vehicles. It’s harder to put out the fire of EVs. When the battery is on fire, it’s absolutely inaccessible to fire suppressants like water. There is also a chance of re-ignition without sufficient cooling, which can lead to a long-lasting fire. So, the need for a big amount of fire suppressants and firefighting efforts makes a journey risky. You might even want to carry your own fire extinguisher.

 

 

 

Too Much High-Tech Wizardry

 

 

EVs are not the only cars that can be hacked, but they are more prone to such attacks. ICE cars have also become increasingly high-tech thanks to mobile FOB and hackers have also used these vulnerabilities. Hackers have more opportunities because EVs are increasingly high-tech. It becomes easier to hack them as more EVs are connected to the internet.

And this is not only about the data leak or stealing a car. It is also about a huge amount of metal that can be controlled remotely and leads to massive destruction causing deaths. And there was a great example with a Chinese company hacking a Tesla Model S in 2016 and turned out to be absolutely possible. This was one of Tesla's problems, and software updates have overcome it. But the "fights" between the hackers and manufacturers tell us that there will always be the risk of being hacked.

 

 

 

Charger Compatibility

 

 

The development of the second-level charger was a relatively coordinated process, and all auto manufacturers besides Tesla used the same charge port model. Different automakers use three kinds of DC fast charges: most automakers use the SAE Combined Charging System, Nissan and Mitsubishi use CHAdeMO, and Tesla uses Tesla Supercharger. The absence of vehicle compatibility is different from universal vehicle access to gas stations and can be a huge barrier to widespread electric car realization.

 

The Range

 

 

The range of most electric vehicle models currently on the market is a vast improvement over what EVs offered just a few years ago. However, EVs aren't the best vehicles for those who regularly cover long distances. In addition, in a study done by AAA, they found that vehicle range dropped by a massive 41% when the temperature went down to 20 degrees Fahrenheit and the heater was used.

 

 

Charging Time

 

 

The lack of range is made worse by the charging times. In a fossil-fueled car, one can go to a gas station, fill up the tank and be back on the road in less than 5 minutes. That's certainly not the case in an EV. The time it takes to charge depends on the car's battery capacity as well as the speed of the charger. Those using a standard wall charger can face up to 8 hours of charging time on their Tesla Model S, whereas using a supercharger would drop that time to roughly 1 hour. There are many chargers that will take at least 2 hours to fully charge a discharged battery. That's a lot longer than the 5 minutes it takes the fossil-fueled car.

 

It should be noted that many shopping centers and public parking lots do have EV chargers, so it might be possible to charge your car while shopping and running errands. Some companies also let employees charge their car at work, which is very convenient and time saving.

 

Overall Vehicle Costs

 

 

EVs basically cost more than their gasoline-fueled counterparts, generally due to expensive materials and processes which are used in battery production. These expenses have fallen down over the last decade, but the average price of a new EV is approximate $30,000-$40,000.

However, there is also a different side. EVs can save a lot of funds on fuel during a 15-year lifespan.

 

Due to a study by the U.S. Department of Energy's National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) and the Idaho National Laboratory, in accordance with basic scenario assumptions about gas prices, electricity costs, and charging modes, EVs can save consumers approximately from $4,500 to $12,000 — but that's in the long run.

 

Prices Of Charging Stations

 

Charging stations for EVs need many funds for installing. Public charging station component costs can be different. It starts from $2,500 for a level two charger and can reach $35,800 for a DC fast charger. These price diapasons do not include installation costs and such called “soft costs,” like control for the permitting process, regulations, and interconnection with utilities. Such costs lead to the question of who should pay for the construction of these stations.

 

Nowadays, car and energy companies and business owners including the managers of parking stations, garages, shopping centers, and retailers seeking to attract EV users to pay for the building of charging stations. But then it's a whole different ball game when you want to install one in your house.

[800renegaderider]

2 minutes ago, hayward said:

What is the life span of the battery?

Interwebs say 300-500k for a Tesla 

I know Prius are only 10 years or so my wife’s coworker just junked her Prius cause it needed a battery and wasn’t worth replacing.

[akvanden]

It’s a progression of technology, that’s for sure. Huge strides will be made in battery tech over the next 5 years. Pretty exciting stuff.

[Rod]

Heard they do mileage runs in the cold with the heater off. And if you use the heater it knock off like another 50%

[XCR1250]

INSIDER:

In roughly three minutes, you can fill the gas tank of a Ford Mustang and have enough range to go about 300 miles with its V8 engine.

But on a recent 200-mile trip from Boston to New York in the Mustang's electric Mach-E variant, Axios' Dan Primack said he felt "panic" as his battery level dipped below 23% while searching for a compatible charger to complete his trip.

"I was assured that this might be one of the country's easiest EV routes," Primack wrote. "Those assurances were misplaced."

For Bloomberg automotive analyst Kevin Tynan, an hour plugged into his household outlet gave the Mach-E just three miles of range.

"Overnight, we're looking at 36 miles of range," he told Insider. "Before I gave it back to Ford, because I wanted to give it back full, I drove it to the office and plugged in at the charger we have there."

Standard home outlets generally deliver 120 volts, powering what electric vehicle aficionados call "Level 1" charging, while the higher-powered specialty connections at 240 volts are known as "Level 2." By comparison, Tesla's "Superchargers," which can fully charge its cars in a little over an hour, run on 480 volts. 

 

That difference is night and day, according to a new study published in the journal Nature Energy by University of California Davis researchers Scott Hardman and Gil Tal that surveyed Californians who purchased an electric vehicle between 2012 and 2018. 

Roughly one in five plug-in electric vehicle (PEV) owners switched back to owning gas-powered cars, in large part because charging the batteries was a pain in the… trunk, the researchers found. 

Of those who switched, over 70% lacked access to Level 2 charging at home, and slightly fewer than that lacked Level 2 connections at their workplace.

"If you don't have a Level 2, it's almost impossible," said Tynan, who has tested a wide range of makes and models of PEVs over the years for his research.

Even with the faster charging, a Chevy Bolt he tested still needed nearly six hours to top its range back up to 300 miles from nearly empty — something that takes him just minutes at the pump with his family SUV.

EVs have come a long way in recent years in terms of range, safety, comfort, and tech features, but Hardman and Tal note that very little has changed in terms of how they are recharged.

 

The researchers warned that this trend could make it harder to achieve electric vehicle sales targets in California and other countries, and the growth of the market overall. 

"It should not be assumed that once a consumer purchases a PEV they will continue owning one," Hardman and Tal wrote. "What is clear is that this could slow PEV market growth and make reaching 100% PEV sales more difficult."

GM has set a target of an all-electric fleet by 2030, while Ford recently unveiled its "game changing" Lightning F-150 electric pickup truck and is prioritizing production of its electric Mustangs over its traditional gas ones. But Tynan says that fixing the charging issue will require even more active engagement from automakers.

Meanwhile, change is on the horizon. Tesla recently filed paperwork to open a drive-in restaurant at one of its LA supercharger stations (which takes 15 minutes to deliver an 80% charge), and 7-Eleven announced it will be installing 500 fast-charging connections at select convenience stores across North America.

Meanwhile, those initiatives are dwarfed by President Joe Biden's American Jobs Plan, which would set aside $15 billion to build a national network of 500,000 stations.

But those are largely still plans, and it will be a while before EV ownership is just as convenient as gasoline currently is.

 

 

 

[800renegaderider]

1 minute ago, ACE said:

Heard they do mileage runs in the cold with the heater off. And if you use the heater it knock off like another 50%

Use anything it drains the battery a/c kills them quick.

[Rod]

1 minute ago, 800renegaderider said:

Use anything it drains the battery a/c kills them quick.

Yeah 

I know they say the internal combustion engine is inefficient because it loses a lot of energy through heat but that heat is a pretty nice by product here. 

[800renegaderider]

1 minute ago, ACE said:

Yeah 

I know they say the internal combustion engine is inefficient because it loses a lot of energy through heat but that heat is a pretty nice by product here. 

I’d imagine it is maybe when you’re forced to go electric you can convince the dealer to throw in some hand warmers keep the mpg up don’t wanna kill it using the heat 😂 

[Rod]

2 minutes ago, 800renegaderider said:

I’d imagine it is maybe when you’re forced to go electric you can convince the dealer to throw in some hand warmers keep the mpg up don’t wanna kill it using the heat 😂 

Gonna have to put a generator in the truck to run a damn heater 

[800renegaderider]

Just now, ACE said:

Gonna have to put a generator in the truck to run a damn heater 

Can’t do that!!! That uses gas put in a wood stove 👍 

[Rod]

1 minute ago, 800renegaderider said:

Can’t do that!!! That uses gas put in a wood stove 👍 

Lol

i bet HD 2500’s will still be exempt from all this shit 

[airflite1]

41 minutes ago, hayward said:

What is the life span of the battery?

It depends on the manufacture, the only one I'm familiar with is Landrovers, it's considered to be lifetime of the vehicle. It's designed for 1000 fast charge cycles from 0 to 100% at 208 some miles to a charge that's almost 300.000 miles. If you keep the battery between 20-80% and mainly slow charge you could basically increase life X10, or 3,000,000 miles, in reality the car would be completely shot before it needs a battery replaced.

[Deephaven]

Who cares about all that shit.  They are fast.  That is the only reason to get one.  Then you have to hope you either have another car for when it is inconvenient or be willing to deal.  Next car.  One more turbocharged v8 first.

[1jkw]

I only talked to 2 people who have Telsa's they both love them, too expensive for me. Another guy who's wife has a Prius she loves it he hates it, they had the battery replaced was 3 k but Toyota gave them  1500.00 for the old battery.

[Deephaven]

On 12/6/2021 at 3:37 PM, ACE said:

If they ever invent a battery that doesn’t suck I’d try one 

Porsche Taycan just drove across the country with less than 2.5 hours of charge time for just under 2900 miles.  Seems nearly inconsequential to me.  I would want more break than that for a drive that long.

[Rod]

2 minutes ago, Deephaven said:

Porsche Taycan just drove across the country with less than 2.5 hours of charge time for just under 2900 miles.  Seems nearly inconsequential to me.  I would want more break than that for a drive that long.

Still no good in our climate 

[Mainecat]

EV’s are the future. Batteries will be recycled and sold again as electric fork truck batteries have been for decades so the old pollution to manu them is bs. Think of the oil, trans fluid and rear end fluid not needed? Where has that been going? No more gas additives needed. There will be zero emissions from a EV.

The sooner the better

[racer254]

2 minutes ago, Mainecat said:

EV’s are the future. Batteries will be recycled and sold again as electric fork truck batteries have been for decades so the old pollution to manu them is bs. Think of the oil, trans fluid and rear end fluid not needed? Where has that been going? No more gas additives needed. There will be zero emissions from a EV.

The sooner the better

And yet you still haven't bought one?  Hypocrite!!!

[NaturallyAspirated]

On 12/6/2021 at 3:27 PM, racer254 said:

Lets remember to take into consideration:

Producing a 75 kilowatt-hour battery for a Tesla Model 3, considered on the larger end of batteries for electric vehicles, would result in the emission of 4,500 kilograms of CO2 if it was made at Tesla's battery factory in Nevada. That’s the emissions equivalent to driving a gas-powered sedan for 1.4 years, at a yearly average distance of 12,000 miles, Hausfather said.

If the battery were made in Asia, manufacturing it would produce 7,500 kg of carbon dioxide, or the equivalent of driving a gasoline-powered sedan for 2.4 years

I don't know many Tesla cars that drive for less than 2.5 years.  

Now, we need to take into account the CO2 used to manufacture the internal combustion engine that is to be driven for 1.4 or 2.4 years as well.  

Also, are the numbers including the production of gasoline from source to pump?

Electric cars do make sense, and the economics surrounding them shows so.

Neal

[teamgreen02]

16 minutes ago, NaturallyAspirated said:

Electric cars do make sense, and the economics surrounding them shows so.

How many EVs do you own?

36 minutes ago, Mainecat said:

EV’s are the future. Batteries will be recycled and sold again as electric fork truck batteries have been for decades so the old pollution to manu them is bs. Think of the oil, trans fluid and rear end fluid not needed? Where has that been going? No more gas additives needed. There will be zero emissions from a EV.

The sooner the better

Same question.

One of the worst industrial facilities I have ever been in was a car battery recycling plant.  All they are left with is chunks of lead and chips of plastic but the conditions were awful.  Those batteries are pretty easily recycled to.  There isn't an infrastructure to recycle EV batteries efficiently yet.

[Rod]

The torque they can produce is wicked