Meme thread

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

1 minute ago, XC.Morrison said:

Humans are not varmits.  Okay, not all humans are varmits, you get my point.  AR ammo can produce softball sized exit wounds.  And they do more damage than a typical handgun.  Fiddy wouldn't have survived his nine shots had they been from an AR.

No. It. Does. Not. 100% wrong. You dont have a clue. The 5.56 round is a fragmenting tumbling round. By its nature, it cannot leave an exit wound like a softball. Physically impossible on a human body. A hand gun at close range would do infinitely more damage as they are not designed to tumble or fragment, rather expand and cause gaping holes with the correct velocity and body size. I’d rather be shot with 9 5.56 rounds than 9 .45 rounds any day of the week. Just stop. You’re wrong from start to finish.

[XC.Morrison]

35 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

Oh? Is that so? The .223/5.56 is a round that tumbles. But it’s main goal is fragmentation and wounding. It does not leave an exit wound like that. It was designed to injure in order to force the enemy to lose another to deal with the wounded. Also, it is poorly designed and doesn’t reach a full tumble until 12-14 inches unless of course hitting bone. Often you’ll have two to three exit wounds that are clean through. Not a great weapon for killing. Whereas the 7.62 begins a tumble at 6-8 inches. Where does that leave us you may ask? A highly ineffective bullet on skinny people for starters, it also minimizes when max damage is achieved. Usually the backside of a human target once past most vitals. Know what you are talking about if you are going to be snarky. As you said: Go forth and be less dumb. 

I'll take the emergency physicians' word on the tissue damage.  You can take up any other gripes you may have per the snarkyness of my post with the ghost of Isaac Newton.

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

9 minutes ago, XC.Morrison said:

I'll take the emergency physicians' word on the tissue damage.  You can take up any other gripes you may have per the snarkyness of my post with the ghost of Isaac Newton.

He’s wrong. Sorry. He’s actually full of shit. I taught advanced rifle marksmanship and ballistics. I’ll take my credentials over his any day of the week. I can also promise I’ve seen more torsos with 5.56 holes in them than he has. @Snake and @Zambroski educate this man... 

[XC.Morrison]

8 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

He’s wrong. Sorry. He’s actually full of shit. I taught advanced rifle marksmanship and ballistics. I’ll take my credentials over his any day of the week. I can also promise I’ve seen more torsos with 5.56 holes in them than he has. @Snake and @Zambroski educate this man... 

Then you would know that the 5.56 round is known to yaw up to 4 degrees before even hitting the body.  Not only that you are directly contradicting a former U.S. Army CID officer.

 

"Flight ballistics: The bullet exits the muzzle of the AR-15 (or M4) unstable. The bullet is not merely spinning around its long axis (the front to rear line). It also "yaws" circularly, up to 4 degrees off center line (a form of gyroscopic precession). At about 100 meters, however, the yaw disappears and the round flies very stable out to about 400 meters, when it starts yawing again.

Victims of school shootings are all shot at ranges of much less than 100 meters. So the bullet strikes them while still yawing. That directly affects what happens to them,

Terminal, or wound, ballistics: There is a term or art among law-enforcement officers called, "instant incapacitation." It means a firearm wound that is so severe that the stuck person becomes functionally incapable either immediately or within very few seconds. Instant incapacitation is caused by two things: First is massive and sudden loss of blood. Second is severe interruption of the central nervous system. The 5.56 does both.

1. The 5.56 round exits the rifle at just more than 1,000 meters per second, about three times the speed of sound.  When the 5.56 bullet hits a human body, it immediately begins to decelerate. This bullet's length to width ratio is high. The nose of the bullet begins to decelerate but the rear is still traveling supersonic. The rear is going faster than the nose. This causes the rear to overtake the nose, meaning that the bullet begins to tumble end over end. This tumbling in turn causes the bullet to fragment not quite completely and the fragments travel through flesh, bounce off bone into new directions and sever nervous system connections. This tumbling is greatly enhanced if the bullet is yawing at impact, as every bullet fired during a school shooting is. That is part one of what causes instant incapacitation.

2. Many ballisticians also say that the supersonic shock wave, shaped like a cone pointed in the direction the bullet was flying, enters the entrance wound and expands it rapidly for a distance into the body (how much depends on the location of the entrance wound and the angle). This causes excess bleeding over what the bullet would cause alone. This effect is called "hydrostatic shock," but not all armaments ballisticians agree that it is significantly damaging. In fact, while sound travels four times faster through human tissue than through the air, sonic waves have been proven not to damage the body.

Cavitation: Any high-velocity bullet (and almost all non-HV bullets, too) not only creates a cavity in the body corresponding to the width of the bullet, they also create large-diameter cavities from the sudden displacement of tissue caused by the speed of the bullet. This is called "cavitation." A radiologist who helped treat victims at Parkland described it this way:

The bullet from an AR-15 passes through the body like a cigarette boat traveling at maximum speed through a tiny canal. The tissue next to the bullet is elastic—moving away from the bullet like waves of water displaced by the boat—and then returns and settles back. This process is called cavitation; it leaves the displaced tissue damaged or killed. The high-velocity bullet causes a swath of tissue damage that extends several inches from its path. It does not have to actually hit an artery to damage it and cause catastrophic bleeding. Exit wounds can be the size of an orange.

https://senseofevents.blogspot.com/2018/02/why-ar-15-is-very-deadly-military-weapon.html

[Zambroski]

 

23 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

He’s wrong. Sorry. He’s actually full of shit. I taught advanced rifle marksmanship and ballistics. I’ll take my credentials over his any day of the week. I can also promise I’ve seen more torsos with 5.56 holes in them than he has. @Snake and @Zambroski educate this man... 

Well, that was a painful backread.

Hey, @XC.Morrison , shhhhhhhh.....this is where you just get quiet and learn something.  

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

24 minutes ago, XC.Morrison said:

Then you would know that the 5.56 round is known to yaw up to 4 degrees before even hitting the body.  Not only that you are directly contradicting a former U.S. Army CID officer.

 

"Flight ballistics: The bullet exits the muzzle of the AR-15 (or M4) unstable. The bullet is not merely spinning around its long axis (the front to rear line). It also "yaws" circularly, up to 4 degrees off center line (a form of gyroscopic precession). At about 100 meters, however, the yaw disappears and the round flies very stable out to about 400 meters, when it starts yawing again.

Victims of school shootings are all shot at ranges of much less than 100 meters. So the bullet strikes them while still yawing. That directly affects what happens to them,

Terminal, or wound, ballistics: There is a term or art among law-enforcement officers called, "instant incapacitation." It means a firearm wound that is so severe that the stuck person becomes functionally incapable either immediately or within very few seconds. Instant incapacitation is caused by two things: First is massive and sudden loss of blood. Second is severe interruption of the central nervous system. The 5.56 does both.

1. The 5.56 round exits the rifle at just more than 1,000 meters per second, about three times the speed of sound.  When the 5.56 bullet hits a human body, it immediately begins to decelerate. This bullet's length to width ratio is high. The nose of the bullet begins to decelerate but the rear is still traveling supersonic. The rear is going faster than the nose. This causes the rear to overtake the nose, meaning that the bullet begins to tumble end over end. This tumbling in turn causes the bullet to fragment not quite completely and the fragments travel through flesh, bounce off bone into new directions and sever nervous system connections. This tumbling is greatly enhanced if the bullet is yawing at impact, as every bullet fired during a school shooting is. That is part one of what causes instant incapacitation.

2. Many ballisticians also say that the supersonic shock wave, shaped like a cone pointed in the direction the bullet was flying, enters the entrance wound and expands it rapidly for a distance into the body (how much depends on the location of the entrance wound and the angle). This causes excess bleeding over what the bullet would cause alone. This effect is called "hydrostatic shock," but not all armaments ballisticians agree that it is significantly damaging. In fact, while sound travels four times faster through human tissue than through the air, sonic waves have been proven not to damage the body.

Cavitation: Any high-velocity bullet (and almost all non-HV bullets, too) not only creates a cavity in the body corresponding to the width of the bullet, they also create large-diameter cavities from the sudden displacement of tissue caused by the speed of the bullet. This is called "cavitation." A radiologist who helped treat victims at Parkland described it this way:

The bullet from an AR-15 passes through the body like a cigarette boat traveling at maximum speed through a tiny canal. The tissue next to the bullet is elastic—moving away from the bullet like waves of water displaced by the boat—and then returns and settles back. This process is called cavitation; it leaves the displaced tissue damaged or killed. The high-velocity bullet causes a swath of tissue damage that extends several inches from its path. It does not have to actually hit an artery to damage it and cause catastrophic bleeding. Exit wounds can be the size of an orange.

https://senseofevents.blogspot.com/2018/02/why-ar-15-is-very-deadly-military-weapon.html

Lol yes a bullet does not spin on a perfect axis... A bullet has so much momentum at point blank that it will not tumble in smaller bodies yet pass directly through unless hitting bone. Again, you can quote others, I know it from real experience. Sbyl. Oh noes!! A CID officer. Some nerd ass paper pusher? That’s how you want to take as credible. If you had said special forces operator or infantry officer you may be closer. 

 

Anywho, back to memes!

[Angry ginger]

38 minutes ago, XC.Morrison said:

Then you would know that the 5.56 round is known to yaw up to 4 degrees before even hitting the body.  Not only that you are directly contradicting a former U.S. Army CID officer.

 

"Flight ballistics: The bullet exits the muzzle of the AR-15 (or M4) unstable. The bullet is not merely spinning around its long axis (the front to rear line). It also "yaws" circularly, up to 4 degrees off center line (a form of gyroscopic precession). At about 100 meters, however, the yaw disappears and the round flies very stable out to about 400 meters, when it starts yawing again.

Victims of school shootings are all shot at ranges of much less than 100 meters. So the bullet strikes them while still yawing. That directly affects what happens to them,

Terminal, or wound, ballistics: There is a term or art among law-enforcement officers called, "instant incapacitation." It means a firearm wound that is so severe that the stuck person becomes functionally incapable either immediately or within very few seconds. Instant incapacitation is caused by two things: First is massive and sudden loss of blood. Second is severe interruption of the central nervous system. The 5.56 does both.

1. The 5.56 round exits the rifle at just more than 1,000 meters per second, about three times the speed of sound.  When the 5.56 bullet hits a human body, it immediately begins to decelerate. This bullet's length to width ratio is high. The nose of the bullet begins to decelerate but the rear is still traveling supersonic. The rear is going faster than the nose. This causes the rear to overtake the nose, meaning that the bullet begins to tumble end over end. This tumbling in turn causes the bullet to fragment not quite completely and the fragments travel through flesh, bounce off bone into new directions and sever nervous system connections. This tumbling is greatly enhanced if the bullet is yawing at impact, as every bullet fired during a school shooting is. That is part one of what causes instant incapacitation.

2. Many ballisticians also say that the supersonic shock wave, shaped like a cone pointed in the direction the bullet was flying, enters the entrance wound and expands it rapidly for a distance into the body (how much depends on the location of the entrance wound and the angle). This causes excess bleeding over what the bullet would cause alone. This effect is called "hydrostatic shock," but not all armaments ballisticians agree that it is significantly damaging. In fact, while sound travels four times faster through human tissue than through the air, sonic waves have been proven not to damage the body.

Cavitation: Any high-velocity bullet (and almost all non-HV bullets, too) not only creates a cavity in the body corresponding to the width of the bullet, they also create large-diameter cavities from the sudden displacement of tissue caused by the speed of the bullet. This is called "cavitation." A radiologist who helped treat victims at Parkland described it this way:

The bullet from an AR-15 passes through the body like a cigarette boat traveling at maximum speed through a tiny canal. The tissue next to the bullet is elastic—moving away from the bullet like waves of water displaced by the boat—and then returns and settles back. This process is called cavitation; it leaves the displaced tissue damaged or killed. The high-velocity bullet causes a swath of tissue damage that extends several inches from its path. It does not have to actually hit an artery to damage it and cause catastrophic bleeding. Exit wounds can be the size of an orange.

https://senseofevents.blogspot.com/2018/02/why-ar-15-is-very-deadly-military-weapon.html

so your quote proves xlt's point it's a tumbling round nor designed to make a big exit wound but to do internal damage after making a small entry wound.  

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

24 minutes ago, XC.Morrison said:

Then you would know that the 5.56 round is known to yaw up to 4 degrees before even hitting the body.  Not only that you are directly contradicting a former U.S. Army CID officer.

 

"Flight ballistics: The bullet exits the muzzle of the AR-15 (or M4) unstable. The bullet is not merely spinning around its long axis (the front to rear line). It also "yaws" circularly, up to 4 degrees off center line (a form of gyroscopic precession). At about 100 meters, however, the yaw disappears and the round flies very stable out to about 400 meters, when it starts yawing again.

Victims of school shootings are all shot at ranges of much less than 100 meters. So the bullet strikes them while still yawing. That directly affects what happens to them,

Terminal, or wound, ballistics: There is a term or art among law-enforcement officers called, "instant incapacitation." It means a firearm wound that is so severe that the stuck person becomes functionally incapable either immediately or within very few seconds. Instant incapacitation is caused by two things: First is massive and sudden loss of blood. Second is severe interruption of the central nervous system. The 5.56 does both.

1. The 5.56 round exits the rifle at just more than 1,000 meters per second, about three times the speed of sound.  When the 5.56 bullet hits a human body, it immediately begins to decelerate. This bullet's length to width ratio is high. The nose of the bullet begins to decelerate but the rear is still traveling supersonic. The rear is going faster than the nose. This causes the rear to overtake the nose, meaning that the bullet begins to tumble end over end. This tumbling in turn causes the bullet to fragment not quite completely and the fragments travel through flesh, bounce off bone into new directions and sever nervous system connections. This tumbling is greatly enhanced if the bullet is yawing at impact, as every bullet fired during a school shooting is. That is part one of what causes instant incapacitation.

2. Many ballisticians also say that the supersonic shock wave, shaped like a cone pointed in the direction the bullet was flying, enters the entrance wound and expands it rapidly for a distance into the body (how much depends on the location of the entrance wound and the angle). This causes excess bleeding over what the bullet would cause alone. This effect is called "hydrostatic shock," but not all armaments ballisticians agree that it is significantly damaging. In fact, while sound travels four times faster through human tissue than through the air, sonic waves have been proven not to damage the body.

Cavitation: Any high-velocity bullet (and almost all non-HV bullets, too) not only creates a cavity in the body corresponding to the width of the bullet, they also create large-diameter cavities from the sudden displacement of tissue caused by the speed of the bullet. This is called "cavitation." A radiologist who helped treat victims at Parkland described it this way:

The bullet from an AR-15 passes through the body like a cigarette boat traveling at maximum speed through a tiny canal. The tissue next to the bullet is elastic—moving away from the bullet like waves of water displaced by the boat—and then returns and settles back. This process is called cavitation; it leaves the displaced tissue damaged or killed. The high-velocity bullet causes a swath of tissue damage that extends several inches from its path. It does not have to actually hit an artery to damage it and cause catastrophic bleeding. Exit wounds can be the size of an orange.

https://senseofevents.blogspot.com/2018/02/why-ar-15-is-very-deadly-military-weapon.html

Lol yes a bullet does not spin on a perfect axis... A bullet has so much momentum at point blank that it will not tumble in smaller bodies yet pass directly through unless hitting bone. Again, you can quote others, I know it from real experience. Sbyl. Oh noes!! A CID officer. Some nerd ass paper pusher? That’s how you want to take as credible. If you had said special forces operator or infantry officer you may be closer. 

 

Anywho, back to memes!

[T1R9sledder]

Just now, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

Lol yes a bullet does not spin on a perfect axis... A bullet has so much momentum at point blank that it will not tumble in smaller bodies yet pass directly through unless hitting bone. Again, you can quote others, I know it from real experience. Sbyl. Oh noes!! A CID officer. Some nerd ass paper pusher? That’s how you want to take as credible. If you had said special forces operator or infantry officer you may be closer. 

 

Anywho, back to memes!

Did you figure telling him twice he might get the point?

[XC.Morrison]

35 minutes ago, Angry ginger said:

so your quote proves xlt's point it's a tumbling round nor designed to make a big exit wound but to do internal damage after making a small entry wound.  

Wouldn't more tumbling lead to a bigger exit wound?  That's what I took away from it.   I did some digging other places too and found that there are all sorts of variations to 5.56 ammo.  FMJ, open tip, soft tip, 55 grain, 62 grain, 68 grain, etc.  It's fun to learn new stuff, but honestly, I think I more than proved that the hole size represented in @Skidooski 's meme is more than plausible, and thus he remains a moron.  I think XLT has just been wound up extra tight by Snoslinger today and needs to cut loose with some beer or something and sit out by his lake for a bit.

 

[XC.Morrison]

Now, back to memes:

 

[Kev144]

4 minutes ago, XC.Morrison said:

Now, back to memes:

 

This was literally the worst back pedal meme I've seen.  It's a bad meme no doubt but you are trying to worm out of being wrong  

[Angry ginger]

10 minutes ago, XC.Morrison said:

Wouldn't more tumbling lead to a bigger exit wound?  That's what I took away from it.   I did some digging other places too and found that there are all sorts of variations to 5.56 ammo.  FMJ, open tip, soft tip, 55 grain, 62 grain, 68 grain, etc.  It's fun to learn new stuff, but honestly, I think I more than proved that the hole size represented in @Skidooski 's meme is more than plausible, and thus he remains a moron.  I think XLT has just been wound up extra tight by Snoslinger today and needs to cut loose with some beer or something and sit out by his lake for a bit.

 

 A big exit wound is usually from a bullet that mushroom which is why xlt pointed out he would rather be shot at short range with the 5.56 that hopefully goes through than the 45 which will put a big hole in you. 

[Rigid1]

17 minutes ago, XC.Morrison said:

Wouldn't more tumbling lead to a bigger exit wound?  That's what I took away from it.   I did some digging other places too and found that there are all sorts of variations to 5.56 ammo.  FMJ, open tip, soft tip, 55 grain, 62 grain, 68 grain, etc.  It's fun to learn new stuff, but honestly, I think I more than proved that the hole size represented in @Skidooski 's meme is more than plausible, and thus he remains a moron.  I think XLT has just been wound up extra tight by Snoslinger today and needs to cut loose with some beer or something and sit out by his lake for a bit.

 

Xlt is 100% completely correct

[Zambroski]

I thought we had a ballistics thread here.  Meh...must have been HCS.  I know I've participated in at least a half dozen over the years.

 

[Skidooski]

27 minutes ago, XC.Morrison said:

Wouldn't more tumbling lead to a bigger exit wound?  That's what I took away from it.   I did some digging other places too and found that there are all sorts of variations to 5.56 ammo.  FMJ, open tip, soft tip, 55 grain, 62 grain, 68 grain, etc.  It's fun to learn new stuff, but honestly, I think I more than proved that the hole size represented in @Skidooski 's meme is more than plausible, and thus he remains a moron.  I think XLT has just been wound up extra tight by Snoslinger today and needs to cut loose with some beer or something and sit out by his lake for a bit.

 

I'm a moron because you get fully triggered about a meme. You go girl!

On the positive side now you know a little bit more about the different types of ammunition so you're not as much of a moron now

[Skidooski]

1 minute ago, Zambroski said:

I thought we had a ballistics thread here.  Meh...must have been HCS.  I know I've participated in at least a half dozen over the years.

 

Whatever XC.moron says is Gospel

[XC.Morrison]

20 minutes ago, Angry ginger said:

 A big exit wound is usually from a bullet that mushroom which is why xlt pointed out he would rather be shot at short range with the 5.56 that hopefully goes through than the 45 which will put a big hole in you. 

Fiddy got shot 9 times by a 9mm and he’s still breathing.  In my amateur opinion that would have been far less likely had it been any variety of 5.56 which by the way can expand as well if you opt for open tips

I never brought up .45’s.  But I did own one once just to try it.  Sucker weighed like 40 oz. and gave me a little buzz.

.ER doctors from Vegas and Patkland say the wounds are far worse than what they typically see.  

Edited June 13, 2018 by XC.Morrison

[Rigid1]

1 minute ago, XC.Morrison said:

Fiddy got shot 9 times by a 9mm and he’s still breathing.  In my amateur opinion that would have been far less likely had it been any variety of 5.56 which by the way can expand as well if you opt for open tips.

ER doctors from Vegas and Patkland say the wounds are far worse than what they typically see.  

Any of fiddy's bullets hit anything else before they hit him?? Glass, car door, Nick another person?? What was fiddy wearing? How old was the ammo?? What kind of ammo?? Alot comes into play with ballistics forensics bud..

BTW, 9mm is not a considered a "person stopping" round..

[Zambroski]

31 minutes ago, XC.Morrison said:

Fiddy got shot 9 times by a 9mm and he’s still breathing.  In my amateur opinion that would have been far less likely had it been any variety of 5.56 which by the way can expand as well if you opt for open tips

I never brought up .45’s.  But I did own one once just to try it.  Sucker weighed like 40 oz. and gave me a little buzz.

.ER doctors from Vegas and Patkland say the wounds are far worse than what they typically see.  

The 5.56 is moving at around +3200/FPS vs. the 9mm that tops out about 1400/FPS (depending on loads).  The 9mm's that hit him probably stayed intact and didn't hit any vital organs or, if it did, he got help before he bled out.  Not familiar with "Fiddy's" gangsta wounds.  The 5.56, depending on range may have gone through him but, most likely would have disintigrated on impact of any type of meaty flesh/bone of an adult male sending tiny shards of "love" through his body.  He would most likely have died as one of those "chards" would have hit something he needed...or, would have bled out due to massive trauma.  That's where the beauty of that little 5.56 comes in, it's most likely a slow, painful death that requires many others to be preoccupied with trying to save said punctured person.

[Snake]

1 hour ago, Zambroski said:

The 5.56 is moving at around +3200/FPS vs. the 9mm that tops out about 1400/FPS (depending on loads).  The 9mm's that hit him probably stayed intact and didn't hit any vital organs or, if it did, he got help before he bled out.  Not familiar with "Fiddy's" gangsta wounds.  The 5.56, depending on range may have gone through him but, most likely would have disintigrated on impact of any type of meaty flesh/bone of an adult male sending tiny shards of "love" through his body.  He would most likely have died as one of those "chards" would have hit something he needed...or, would have bled out due to massive trauma.  That's where the beauty of that little 5.56 comes in, it's most likely a slow, painful death that requires many others to be preoccupied with trying to save said punctured person.

Wound 10 in war, tie up 20 additional.

 

[franks pond]

[Whiskey Tango Foxtrot]

41 minutes ago, Snake said:

Wound 10 in war, tie up 20 additional.

 

This, and the reduced weight from transportation of a far superior 7.62 is exactly why the military uses the round.

@xtralettucetomatoe580 @Zambroski @Snake  and any others I may have unknowingly excluded. 

[Zambroski]

51 minutes ago, Snake said:

Wound 10 in war, tie up 20 additional.

 

Actually, if I remember the DoD directive when trying to establish new tactics, one wounded requires 2.3 men to assist on average.  So, one down means 3+ trying to care for a screaming bloodied soldier and not in the battle.  All very grizzly...and effective.

4 minutes ago, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot said:

This, and the reduced weight from transportation of a far superior 7.62 is exactly why the military uses the round.

@xtralettucetomatoe580 @Zambroski @Snake  and any others I may have unknowingly excluded. 

Everything has its place.  I’ll take the 5.56 tho.  It feels more “surgical”.

[Angry ginger]

3 hours ago, XC.Morrison said:

Fiddy got shot 9 times by a 9mm and he’s still breathing.  In my amateur opinion that would have been far less likely had it been any variety of 5.56 which by the way can expand as well if you opt for open tips

I never brought up .45’s.  But I did own one once just to try it.  Sucker weighed like 40 oz. and gave me a little buzz.

.ER doctors from Vegas and Patkland say the wounds are far worse than what they typically see.  

lots of cops hate the 9,  thats why they do 40mm in a lot of departments after 9's not putting people down.