Mileage Psycho Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Trump declared that the "war on coal" was over, I guess coal lost. Quote More bad news for coal: Wind and solar are getting cheaper New York (CNN Business)The simple laws of economics threaten to doom America's remaining coal power plants. Wind and solar costs have plunged so rapidly that 74% of the US coal fleet could be phased out for renewable energy -- and still save customers money, according to a report released on Monday by Energy Innovation, a nonpartisan think tank. That figure of at-risk coal plants in the United States rises to 86% by 2025 as solar and wind costs continue to plunge. The research demonstrates how it's increasingly more expensive to operate existing coal plants than build clean energy alternatives. "US coal plants are in more danger than ever before," Mike O'Boyle, director of electricity policy at Energy Innovation, told CNN Business. "Nearly three-quarters of US coal plants are already 'zombie coal,' or the walking dead." That's despite President Donald Trump's promise to revive the beleaguered coal industry. Trump declared the end of the "war on coal" and slashed regulations that clamped down on the emissions from coal-fired power plants. Late last year, the administration announced plans to reverse an Obama-era coal emissions rule to make it easier to open new coal plants. Trump even appointed Andrew Wheeler, a former coal lobbyist, to lead the EPA. "Trump administration efforts to cut environmental regulations are too little, too late to save coal," O'Boyle said. Rust Belt coal plants under siege The Energy Innovation report found that in 2018, 211 gigawatts of existing US coal capacity -- or 74% of America's fleet -- was at risk from local wind or solar that could more cheaply churn out just as much electricity. North Carolina, Florida, Georgia and Texas are the US states that have the greatest amount of coal plants at risk from local solar and wind, the analysis found. Energy Innovation defined local as within 35 miles. By 2025, Midwestern states including Indiana, Michigan, Ohio and Wisconsin are expected to have high amounts of coal capacity under pressure from renewable energy. Of course, just because it may be economically feasible to shut down a coal plant and replace it with wind or solar, doesn't mean it will happen right away. State regulators must sign off on such decisions. And many power plants will decide to pass the extra costs on to customers. Moreover, coal is still a major employer in parts of Appalachia, making any shutdown potentially damaging to the local economy. Coal has been dethroned Coal was the longtime king of the power industry before it encountered fierce competition last decade from natural gas. Not only is natural gas a cleaner burning fossil fuel, but it's in abundance in the United States thanks to the shale revolution. In 2016, natural gas surpassed coal for the first time as America's leading power source. Meanwhile, the share of total power generation from coal-fired power plants plunged from 48% in 2008 to just 28% last year, according to government statistics. And the rise of renewables means that the economics have once again swung against coal. Aided by a surge of investment in clean energy, solar prices have plummeted 90% since 2009 -- and they're projected to continue declining, according to Energy Innovation. Against that backdrop, renewable energy is projected to be the fastest-growing source of US electricity generation for at least the next two years, according to a January report published by the US Energy Information Administration. Utility-scale solar power is expected to increase by 10% in 2019 alone, while wind power is expected to vault ahead of hydropower for the first time, the EIA said. "Coal's biggest threat is now economics, not regulations," O'Boyle said. New Mexico pledges to go carbon free Another challenge for coal: American households and businesses are increasingly clamoring for clean energy as they worry about climate change. Households and businesses are installing their own solar panels. Small-scape solar generating capacity is expected to grow by 44% over the next two years, according to the EIA. Pressured by voters, US states are adopting ambitious clean energy targets -- and they're framing them as job creators. Last week, New Mexico Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham signed into law a bold plan that aims to source half the state's power from renewable energy by 2030. And by 2045, New Mexico plans to be 100% carbon-free. Future generations "will benefit from both a cleaner environment and a more robust energy economy with exciting career and job opportunities," Lujan Grisham said in a statement. California and Hawaii also recently passed 100% clean energy targets. Some power companies are moving rapidly to adjust to this new environment. Xcel Energy (XEL), a Minneapolis-based power company that serves western and Midwestern states, recently pledged to deliver 100% carbon-free electricity by 2050. The plan calls for doubling Xcel's wind power while slashing its dependence on coal. All signs point to more and more power companies waking up to the new clean energy reality. https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/25/business/coal-solar-wind-renewable-energy/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member steve from amherst Posted March 29, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 29, 2019 Just now, Mileage Psycho said: Trump declared that the "war on coal" was over, I guess coal lost. It did. to natural gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mileage Psycho Posted March 29, 2019 Author Share Posted March 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, steve from amherst said: It did. to natural gas. Natural gas is huge in the death of coal, but nonetheless renewables is where the future is. Quote The Energy Innovation report found that in 2018, 211 gigawatts of existing US coal capacity -- or 74% of America's fleet -- was at risk from local wind or solar that could more cheaply churn out just as much electricity. North Carolina, Florida, Georgia and Texas are the US states that have the greatest amount of coal plants at risk from local solar and wind, the analysis found. Energy Innovation defined local as within 35 miles. By 2025, Midwestern states including Indiana, Michigan, Ohio and Wisconsin are expected to have high amounts of coal capacity under pressure from renewable energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Trump knows wind Vince. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Mileage Psycho said: Natural gas is huge in the death of coal, but nonetheless renewables is where the future is. They may play a part in base load but there will always be a need for thermal generation for peak loading. Very unstable generation supply from wind and solar. I have 30 years in power generation and work at the largest Bio-mass generating station in North America. We burn wood pellets and produce 210 Mw at full load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkevsdi Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Trump is going to use coal on the new warships. He smurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Danger Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Coal generation in the US has been on the decline for sometime but coal and coal mines in the US has been exporting so what is the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Nuke, get rid on the last hangouts. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mainecat said: Trump knows wind Vince. How many renewable energy l devices do you own? How many does vinny own.... let me guess... ZERO step right up and put your money where your mouth is Edited March 29, 2019 by Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Three big coal plants in Chicago are dead. One has already been demolished, one is being demolished and the other is on deck. Coal is done here. I'm driving north now from Alabama. There is a huge wind farm in Central Indiana that spans from Central Indiana to Central Illinois. Thousands of turbines. The writing is on the wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 45 minutes ago, NaturallyAspirated said: Nuke, get rid on the last hangouts. Neal Yes.....anything short of small nuke reactors is fucking stupid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Danger Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 45 minutes ago, Anler said: Three big coal plants in Chicago are dead. One has already been demolished, one is being demolished and the other is on deck. Coal is done here. I'm driving north now from Alabama. There is a huge wind farm in Central Indiana that spans from Central Indiana to Central Illinois. Thousands of turbines. The writing is on the wall. Power companies went the gas turbine route 20 years ago especially around cities. Less foot print. Five years ago I was spending quite a bit of time in Chicago working at some of the retired coal plants that had gas turbine peaker plants attached to them. To stay with coal most plants would have had to add a scrubber which in most cases takes up as much room at the coal plant it self which would be impossible in the city due to real estate constraints. In NYC the older coal plants were converted to co gen gas turbines for several reasons the biggest of which is the ease of transportation for gas over coal (pipeline). Many of the old plants sit on valuable water front property as they needed the water for cooling. Philadelphia has an Office building (Oracle) that is made from one of the original coal power plants put in place by Edison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 hour ago, f7ben said: Yes.....anything short of small nuke reactors is fucking stupid Yup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Hydroelectric is also good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry ginger Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 More trump lies because it's an industry he knew nothing about but realized they were not going to call him out of that because hope and prayer is all they have in coal country and while Obama and Hillary were more truthful about the industry in the long run no one wants to here that their way of life mist change. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry ginger Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, DUMPY said: Hydroelectric is also good Canadians love their hydro. Lots of small hydro projects being torn out with the intention to bring the streams back to their natural state and some push to remove some big ones as well. I'd rather see hydro than wind turbines on every mountaintop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 7 minutes ago, Angry ginger said: Canadians love their hydro. Lots of small hydro projects being torn out with the intention to bring the streams back to their natural state and some push to remove some big ones as well. I'd rather see hydro than wind turbines on every mountaintop. In Canada? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mileage Psycho Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 5 hours ago, Pete said: How many renewable energy l devices do you own? How many does vinny own.... let me guess... ZERO step right up and put your money where your mouth is The power I purchase is 100% renewable, it's the lowest price power on the market. 5 hours ago, Anler said: Three big coal plants in Chicago are dead. One has already been demolished, one is being demolished and the other is on deck. Coal is done here. I'm driving north now from Alabama. There is a huge wind farm in Central Indiana that spans from Central Indiana to Central Illinois. Thousands of turbines. The writing is on the wall. You understand that, the base see's it differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted March 30, 2019 Gold Member Share Posted March 30, 2019 Between hydro and Indians the river ecosystem is pretty fucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 14 hours ago, Snake said: Man that looks exactly like a spot on tug hill, NY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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