Shocking.... 

https://financialpost.com/pmn/transportation-business-pmn/autos-transportation-business-pmn/mild-winter-wreaks-havoc-on-brp-snowmobile-sales-as-ski-doo-maker-cuts-production

13 hours ago, awful knawful said:

BRP still sold more sleds this season than they did pre COVID.

They are cutting 30% to be proactive.

It's to late they already have leftovers, they are being reactive. And good for them reacting in a responsible way. Poo needs to do the same thing

17 hours ago, Not greg b said:

You would be surprised how many will drop them like heart beat 

There aren’t many dealers around me that sell only powersport machines. They are most often diversified and also sell outboards, boats and watercraft, small construction equipment, or outdoors products of some fashion. There just aren’t many stand alone dealers that only sell one brand anymore. Just because sled sales are down I don’t see why a dealer would quit carrying snowmobiles unless they are in Pennsylvania or somewhere that already has very marginal winters. 
 

High interest rates, ski high price increases year over year for machines since COVID and the OEM’s greed to keep prices high has finally bit them in the ass. A shit winter was icing on the cake. Fuck them! 

16 hours ago, AK440 said:

There aren’t many dealers around me that sell only powersport machines. They are most often diversified and also sell outboards, boats and watercraft, small construction equipment, or outdoors products of some fashion. There just aren’t many stand alone dealers that only sell one brand anymore. Just because sled sales are down I don’t see why a dealer would quit carrying snowmobiles unless they are in Pennsylvania or somewhere that already has very marginal winters. 
 

High interest rates, ski high price increases year over year for machines since COVID and the OEM’s greed to keep prices high has finally bit them in the ass. A shit winter was icing on the cake. Fuck them! 

OEMs all were a greedy bunch of cunts during COVID.

Fuck them all.

Does anyone remember when sno checks were actually worth it? Now it seems like it does not matter if you pre order.  About all it means now is you paid MSRP/freight and will probably get a sled. WOW what a bonus !  You don't even get a reach around these days.  Used to be more warranty/better interest rates, gear bag or something to sweeten the deal. Now they make you feel special because they were able to build you sled in these tough times.   

Had to cut back to make the purchase. 

HAPPY APRIL FOOLS DAY !

On 3/30/2024 at 5:09 PM, AK440 said:

There aren’t many dealers around me that sell only powersport machines. They are most often diversified and also sell outboards, boats and watercraft, small construction equipment, or outdoors products of some fashion. There just aren’t many stand alone dealers that only sell one brand anymore. Just because sled sales are down I don’t see why a dealer would quit carrying snowmobiles unless they are in Pennsylvania or somewhere that already has very marginal winters. 
 

High interest rates, ski high price increases year over year for machines since COVID and the OEM’s greed to keep prices high has finally bit them in the ass. A shit winter was icing on the cake. Fuck them! 

Most snowmobile dealers have never been stand alone dealers. Snowmobiles are a consider a short line and have been since the beginning of them. I have customers that would drop any of them in a heart beat as their ag/construction side is so big they it wouldn’t effect their bottom line 

Edited April 2, 20241 yr by Not greg b

13 hours ago, Not greg b said:

Most snowmobile dealers have never been stand alone dealers. Snowmobiles are a consider a short line and have been since the beginning of them. I have customers that would drop any of them in a heart beat as their ag/construction side is so big they it wouldn’t effect their bottom line 

Snowmobiles are not a growing segment of the powersports market with an ever shrinking area of North America in which to use them. My guess is the OEM’s will continue down their path of ever increasing MSRP’s with ever declining sales until they effectively kill the market completely. Boomers won’t be buying the high end sleds forever and Gen-X is a much smaller generation and they are beginning to age out. The OEM’s need to do something different to attract broke ass Millennials and $10,000 Blasts and Indy Sport 550’s are not it. The Neo has potential but they don’t even include a center shock, WTF? The sled industry needs to focus on quantity over performance to boost their sales numbers and get more people interested in the sport. 

On 4/1/2024 at 8:41 AM, jonlafon1 said:

Does anyone remember when sno checks were actually worth it? Now it seems like it does not matter if you pre order.  About all it means now is you paid MSRP/freight and will probably get a sled. WOW what a bonus !  You don't even get a reach around these days.  Used to be more warranty/better interest rates, gear bag or something to sweeten the deal. Now they make you feel special because they were able to build you sled in these tough times.   

you used to get a check, hence snowcheck. plus a jacket , etc. i snowchecked once for "exclusive " options. yeah right, they were all over in the fall , better warranty and better prices

2 hours ago, AK440 said:

Snowmobiles are not a growing segment of the powersports market with an ever shrinking area of North America in which to use them. My guess is the OEM’s will continue down their path of ever increasing MSRP’s with ever declining sales until they effectively kill the market completely. Boomers won’t be buying the high end sleds forever and Gen-X is a much smaller generation and they are beginning to age out. The OEM’s need to do something different to attract broke ass Millennials and $10,000 Blasts and Indy Sport 550’s are not it. The Neo has potential but they don’t even include a center shock, WTF? The sled industry needs to focus on quantity over performance to boost their sales numbers and get more people interested in the sport. 

Performance, and new tech is the only thing that sells in any real numbers. 

 

1 hour ago, krom said:

Performance, and new tech is the only thing that sells in any real numbers. 

 

Sure, but those numbers are in decline and they sell fewer and fewer every year. It costs money to keep developing new stuff and there is a limit as to what people will spend for a luxury good that can be used for shorter and shorter periods during the year.  

If the sled market wants to remain viable and not price itself out of existence it needs to adopt a strategy like the ATV market. Keep selling the same machines year after year with few to no updates. Those machines (at least from Japan) are generally bulletproof and extremely reliable. The vast majority of the current performance sleds being sold today are anything but. Less snow, ever higher prices, reduced reliability, short engine life with the big twins and never ending recalls are not the path for long term success.

3 hours ago, krom said:

Performance, and new tech is the only thing that sells in any real numbers. 

 

The reason cat is 3rd.

Next on the chopping block - Taiga.  

1 hour ago, AK440 said:

Sure, but those numbers are in decline and they sell fewer and fewer every year. It costs money to keep developing new stuff and there is a limit as to what people will spend for a luxury good that can be used for shorter and shorter periods during the year.  

If the sled market wants to remain viable and not price itself out of existence it needs to adopt a strategy like the ATV market. Keep selling the same machines year after year with few to no updates. Those machines (at least from Japan) are generally bulletproof and extremely reliable. The vast majority of the current performance sleds being sold today are anything but. Less snow, ever higher prices, reduced reliability, short engine life with the big twins and never ending recalls are not the path for long term success.

Can't, won't, and doesn't work.  AC lost half their sales when textron tried than.
If anything you claimed was true why Poo is now #1 in atv sales, can am is in gaining leaps, and bounds, while suzuki is basically out of the market they, are outsold by cfmoto.

32 minutes ago, awful knawful said:

The reason cat is 3rd.

yup

Edited April 2, 20241 yr by krom

2 hours ago, AK440 said:

Sure, but those numbers are in decline and they sell fewer and fewer every year. It costs money to keep developing new stuff and there is a limit as to what people will spend for a luxury good that can be used for shorter and shorter periods during the year.  

If the sled market wants to remain viable and not price itself out of existence it needs to adopt a strategy like the ATV market. Keep selling the same machines year after year with few to no updates. Those machines (at least from Japan) are generally bulletproof and extremely reliable. The vast majority of the current performance sleds being sold today are anything but. Less snow, ever higher prices, reduced reliability, short engine life with the big twins and never ending recalls are not the path for long term success.

Cat launches a new sled, once per decade.  

We're #3 in sales...

7 minutes ago, krom said:

Can't, won't, and doesn't work.  AC lost half their sales when textron tried than.
If anything you claimed was true why Poo is now #1 in atv sales, can am is in gaining leaps, and bounds, while suzuki is basically out of the market they, are outsold by cfmoto.

yup

a bit OT... but where does Honda (who once owned the bulk of the ATV market) stack up today?

idk, as I don't follow anything dirt related.  

1 hour ago, racinfarmer said:

Next on the chopping block - Taiga.  

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/quebec-electric-snowmobile-maker-taiga-suspends-production-lays-off-70-workers-1.2054377

 

Montreal-based electric snowmobile manufacturer Taiga Motors says it is pausing production and temporarily laying off around 70 workers.

The company, which also makes electric watercraft, says its decision is in response to a challenging economy and an exceptionally mild winter.

Taiga released quarterly and annual results today but did not hold a conference call with investors, and a spokesperson said managers would not be available for interviews.

It says its net loss was $72.5 million in 2023, compared to a loss of $59.5 million in 2022.

Edited April 3, 20241 yr by krom

1 hour ago, krom said:

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/quebec-electric-snowmobile-maker-taiga-suspends-production-lays-off-70-workers-1.2054377

 

Montreal-based electric snowmobile manufacturer Taiga Motors says it is pausing production and temporarily laying off around 70 workers.

The company, which also makes electric watercraft, says its decision is in response to a challenging economy and an exceptionally mild winter.

Taiga released quarterly and annual results today but did not hold a conference call with investors, and a spokesperson said managers would not be available for interviews.

It says its net loss was $72.5 million in 2023, compared to a loss of $59.5 million in 2022.

Brp sweeps in and buys it for pennies on the dollar and gets it for basically free with government money. Now a full line of sea doo taigas and skidoo taigas 

13 minutes ago, Not greg b said:

Brp sweeps in and buys it for pennies on the dollar and gets it for basically free with government money. Now a full line of sea doo taigas and skidoo taigas 

And loses Billions, because it makes zero sense. 

2 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

Cat launches a new sled, once per decade.  

We're #3 in sales...

And Taiga is gaining in them at number 4

3 hours ago, krom said:

Can't, won't, and doesn't work.  AC lost half their sales when textron tried than.
If anything you claimed was true why Poo is now #1 in atv sales, can am is in gaining leaps, and bounds, while suzuki is basically out of the market they, are outsold by cfmoto.

yup

Honda has been #1 in ATV sales forever. Where is Polaris is when SXS sales are not included with ATV sales?

What happened to Cat is piss poor management, lack of marketing, lack of financial incentives like low interest rates so their sleds couldn’t compete for sales with BRP and Polaris. 
 

Polaris rode to #1 and stayed there from around ‘90 to ‘02 selling Indy’s. Same chassis with refinements every year. Different motors, different body work but the same basic chassis. They were never the most expensive sled in their category and they generally performed well and always rode the best. Cat didn’t follow that formula with the Procross and never fixed long time issues. An OEM doesn’t need an expensive new chassis every few years, they just need refinement, reliability on a sled that rides and handles well. Sell it for less than the competition and you’ll rise to #1. 
 

 

4 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

Cat launches a new sled, once per decade.  

We're #3 in sales...

a bit OT... but where does Honda (who once owned the bulk of the ATV market) stack up today?

idk, as I don't follow anything dirt related.  

Honda fucked themselves building the Fourtrax 300, anyone who bought one of those will never have to buy another 4 wheeler in their lifetime.
 

 

In all reality almost everyone knows someone with a fourtrax that has been neglected for the last 30 years and still runs like a top, arguably the greatest off road product ever built.

9 hours ago, AK440 said:

Honda has been #1 in ATV sales forever. Where is Polaris is when SXS sales are not included with ATV sales?

What happened to Cat is piss poor management, lack of marketing, lack of financial incentives like low interest rates so their sleds couldn’t compete for sales with BRP and Polaris. 
 

Polaris rode to #1 and stayed there from around ‘90 to ‘02 selling Indy’s. Same chassis with refinements every year. Different motors, different body work but the same basic chassis. They were never the most expensive sled in their category and they generally performed well and always rode the best. Cat didn’t follow that formula with the Procross and never fixed long time issues. An OEM doesn’t need an expensive new chassis every few years, they just need refinement, reliability on a sled that rides and handles well. Sell it for less than the competition and you’ll rise to #1. 
 

 

Nope.

AC lost market because the competition came out with new product, period.  I was there, we had customers apologizing to us for switching brands saying they just couldn't wait any longer for ac to release a new chassis, or 850.

Hard to market an old ass dragger when the competition has something completely new and better.  I'd blame the product as well.  Like most buyers that are passionate, marketing has zero influence on me as a buyer.  Having something that fits my need and makes me emotional however is huge and the Procross never did that.  Had it come out in 2009 I would have bought one then, but it was way late to the game and outdated upon arrival.

15 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

Cat launches a new sled, once per decade.  

We're #3 in sales...

a bit OT... but where does Honda (who once owned the bulk of the ATV market) stack up today?

idk, as I don't follow anything dirt related.  

i personally think honda hurt themselves with the auto trans on many of the models. scared people off. we see more old honda at our shop than new stuff. new dirt bikes yes. don't see their side by sides at all. for those it's polaris and can am galore

11 hours ago, Palu49 said:

Honda fucked themselves building the Fourtrax 300, anyone who bought one of those will never have to buy another 4 wheeler in their lifetime.
 

 

In all reality almost everyone knows someone with a fourtrax that has been neglected for the last 30 years and still runs like a top, arguably the greatest off road product ever built.

honda probably holds a lot of those titles.