Crnr2Crnr Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) how in your opinion will the 2023/2024 winter of shit affect the 2024/2025 snowmobile marketplace new or used? just looking at the next 30-90 days and beyond... snow checks, pricing of used sleds, left over sleds with rebates, dealer floorplan orders, rental company orders/turnover and etc. also take interest rates into account. where and what will the manufacturers sacrifice due to profit losses? imo, it's not going to be pretty Edited February 27 by Crnr2Crnr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bontz Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Well, considering 2025 snowchecks don't seem to be going down in price (a high end SkiDoo model was over $24K out the door in western Wisconsin, when my buddy was looking last Friday), and dealers are sitting on literally hundreds of 2024 and older models ... "it's not going to be pretty" seems like a major understatement. I heard M&M out of this area is sitting on 800 units between their two dealerships. Yeah, that's gotta be an awesome feeling!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member 800renegaderider Posted February 26 Gold Member Share Posted February 26 Already seeing decent discounts on new here. I’m sure good deals will be able to be had on used also especially if people are financed to the max and need to get out of the toy loans. The handful of guys I know that buy new every couple years plan to check a 25 🤷♂️ bad winter or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 2 minutes ago, Bontz said: Well, considering 2025 snowchecks don't seem to be going down in price (a high end SkiDoo model was over $24K out the door in western Wisconsin, when my buddy was looking last Friday), and dealers are sitting on literally hundreds of 2024 and older models ... "it's not going to be pretty" seems like a major understatement. I heard M&M out of this area is sitting on 800 units between their two dealerships. Yeah, that's gotta be an awesome feeling!! is definitely going to be interesting... from my pov we haven't had a real buyers market for several years and are long overdue. not to rub salt in open wounds but what ever happened to preseason discounts, golden tickets and the like. if I were in upper management at a sled company my long term strategic planning would have begun several months ago. then we can toss this in the mix, Cat brings out a brand new chassis after a decade plus, reviews are somewhat glowing and buyers for the most part are lucky to get a few hundred miles on them, and now here comes the big bore. tough position, but they had no choice. enthusiasm coming off a great season brings the $-ies and atm I don't know many currently enthusiastic about 'next year' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinfarmer Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 We'll be riding the "old stuff" another winter. Good thing I have a spare top end and spare motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bontz Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 I'll be riding my "86 miles on the ODO" VR1 next year .. with a new set of carbides!! I do agree there isn't a lot of excitement in getting to a dealer and talking 2025 snowcheck, but I do have a few buddies who will do it. We will have at least one guy on a Catalyst 858, and two or three guys on 2025 Polaris models (one has already ridden them). I'm not sure why these guys are doing what they're doing though. AK440 has been channeling his inner Greta and Al, and says we'll never have winter again!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 12 minutes ago, racinfarmer said: We'll be riding the "old stuff" another winter. Good thing I have a spare top end and spare motor. I was hoping to get some saddle time on Enigma this year and then possibly transition it for 'rough ice'... that hasn't happened. 7 minutes ago, Bontz said: I'll be riding my "86 miles on the ODO" VR1 next year .. with a new set of carbides!! I do agree there isn't a lot of excitement in getting to a dealer and talking 2025 snowcheck, but I do have a few buddies who will do it. We will have at least one guy on a Catalyst 858, and two or three guys on 2025 Polaris models (one has already ridden them). I'm not sure why these guys are doing what they're doing though. AK440 has been channeling his inner Greta and Al, and says we'll never have winter again!! and FRESH shocks... sadly, we may need to kill AK here's this evenings view of disappointment... but not ragret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bontz Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I really thought I'd be way more pissed off at this season than I am, but the reality is ... I've kind of been in a "Meh, whatever" attitude. It helps that the kid's volleyball team has kept us busy most weekends though. If not for that, and if I was stuck sitting around without much to do, I'd be in an entirely different mood. Fast forward a year, and I'm guessing I'll have the itch for a snowcheck, or finding a deal on another holdover sled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat45 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I don't think 1 bad snow year will have a huge impact on the manufacturer's, but if we don't get good snow next year it's going to get ugly really quick. This is the 1st time in 40yrs of riding in bayfield co that i can remember the trails not opening. The last few years we had epic snow so hopefully this year was justvan anomaly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bontz Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 6 minutes ago, Cat45 said: I don't think 1 bad snow year will have a huge impact on the manufacturer's, but if we don't get good snow next year it's going to get ugly really quick. This is the 1st time in 40yrs of riding in bayfield co that i can remember the trails not opening. The last few years we had epic snow so hopefully this year was justvan anomaly I agree that it may not have a huge impact on the manufacturers, but man ... I don't know about the dealers out there. Having a bunch of 2024 (and older) inventory and then being forced to take on whatever amount of 2025 inventory isn't going to be good. Hopefully the manufacturers recognize that, and don't force feed the dealers too badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Wish I wouldn't have bought this past April and waited, but love the new XCR so it is what it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat45 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 4 minutes ago, Bontz said: I agree that it may not have a huge impact on the manufacturers, but man ... I don't know about the dealers out there. Having a bunch of 2024 (and older) inventory and then being forced to take on whatever amount of 2025 inventory isn't going to be good. Hopefully the manufacturers recognize that, and don't force feed the dealers too badly. Yeah hopefully the manufacturer's work with the dealersva bit, but they've all been through bad winters before, granted not this bad but hopefully they all survive. Don't need to loose anymore dealers especially the mom and pop shops. I hate dealing with the mega stores and it's getting tougher to find the small shops 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 2 minutes ago, Deephaven said: Wish I wouldn't have bought this past April and waited, but love the new XCR so it is what it is Are you not excited about a 9R XCR sitting in the garage next winter? This is about the best a/v description of where I'm currently at... tbh, I got back into sledding to kill the winter doldrums... not make it worse. this season in a nutshell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 minute ago, Crnr2Crnr said: Are you not excited about a 9R XCR sitting in the garage next winter? This is about the best a/v description of where I'm currently at... tbh, I got back into sledding to kill the winter doldrums... not make it worse. this season in a nutshell... You are confusing people. Idiots thought your name was Karen, now it's Debbie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Deephaven said: You are confusing people. Idiots thought your name was Karen, now it's Debbie? Karen is my middle name... it used to be Mayhem but marriage and common sense ruined that nomenclature Edited February 27 by Crnr2Crnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Conveniently those that call you Karen have no common sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not greg b Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Manufactures are going to have to rebate the hell out of units and the dealers are going to take it in shorts on floor plan when the notes come due. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krom Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Seems like quite a few dealers, and one or 2 manufactures misjudged demand falling off at the end of the pandemic, or over estimated pent up demand. Then high inflation and interest rates, followed up by the worst season most anyone has ever seen. AC has extended their pre-season order period 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not greg b Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 5 minutes ago, krom said: Seems like quite a few dealers, and one or 2 manufactures misjudged demand falling off at the end of the pandemic, or over estimated pent up demand. Then high inflation and interest rates, followed up by the worst season most anyone has ever seen. AC has extended their pre-season order period If there is any dealer that is sick of snowmobiles, this will be the year you see them send their stuff back 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 35 minutes ago, Deephaven said: Conveniently those that call you Karen have no common sense @Bontz started that one. I actually found it funny, still do. 11 minutes ago, Not greg b said: Manufactures are going to have to rebate the hell out of units and the dealers are going to take it in shorts on floor plan when the notes come due. interest rates and floor planning for those under capitalized and without a rainy day slush fund.... fucked. 10 minutes ago, krom said: Seems like quite a few dealers, and one or 2 manufactures misjudged demand falling off at the end of the pandemic, or over estimated pent up demand. Then high inflation and interest rates, followed up by the worst season most anyone has ever seen. AC has extended their pre-season order period you'd know as well or better than most here. if I were XYZ manufacturer, I'd extend the warranties for 2024 buyers if profits and claims warranted it to maintain customer faith and loyalty. 4 minutes ago, Not greg b said: If there is any dealer that is sick of snowmobiles, this will be the year you see them send their stuff back damn' straight... but most profitable dealers (see Polaris/BRP) have a solid dirt line to backstop their minimal snow profits/losses. the really smart ones (my pov) are heavily diversified and carry more than seasonal ORV's. local Poo dealer probably makes more $ on little tractors than on Polaris, and they sell a good amount of Polaris products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not greg b Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 22 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said: @Bontz started that one. I actually found it funny, still do. interest rates and floor planning for those under capitalized and without a rainy day slush fund.... fucked. you'd know as well or better than most here. if I were XYZ manufacturer, I'd extend the warranties for 2024 buyers if profits and claims warranted it to maintain customer faith and loyalty. damn' straight... but most profitable dealers (see Polaris/BRP) have a solid dirt line to backstop their minimal snow profits/losses. the really smart ones (my pov) are heavily diversified and carry more than seasonal ORV's. local Poo dealer probably makes more $ on little tractors than on Polaris, and they sell a good amount of Polaris products. Wells Fargo is 18% last time I checked after the OEM subsides expire. I know for a fact that dealer makes way more money on a small tractor than a snowmobile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinfarmer Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 minute ago, Not greg b said: Wells Fargo is 18% last time I checked after the OEM subsides expire. I know for a fact that dealer makes way more money on a small tractor than a snowmobile. One of the implement dealers here used to sell Cat stuff. Was told they'd need to sell 3 compact tractors or 4 or 5 Gators more and make the same as what they made selling Cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 3 minutes ago, Not greg b said: Wells Fargo is 18% last time I checked after the OEM subsides expire. I know for a fact that dealer makes way more money on a small tractor than a snowmobile. you'd know, it's your wheelhouse Just now, racinfarmer said: One of the implement dealers here used to sell Cat stuff. Was told they'd need to sell 3 compact tractors or 4 or 5 Gators more and make the same as what they made selling Cat. in total profit vs entire product line? looking for clarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinfarmer Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 10 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said: you'd know, it's your wheelhouse in total profit vs entire product line? looking for clarity I would assume he meant the profit they made from selling Cat could be replaced by the numbers listed. Not sure if that included service work too or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 11 minutes ago, racinfarmer said: I would assume he meant the profit they made from selling Cat could be replaced by the numbers listed. Not sure if that included service work too or not. figured so there's more $ in Polaris recalls for the service dept. Cat just sends their customers a zip tie and photocopy via USPS, and viola... done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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