sledder10 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 http://reason.com/blog/2015/12/15/mike-rowe-to-bernie-sanders-stop-telling Mike Rowe, the popular host of CNN's Somebody's Gotta Do It and former host of Discovery Channel's Dirty Jobs, lays into Bernie Sanders for pushing everyone to go to college. Rowe, whom Reason interviewed in December 2013 (see below), isn't against college, but he takes exception to the idea that the only legit way to get ahead these days is to get a university sheepskin. Rather, he argues, there are lots of excellent trade jobs available that many people would not only be successful at but happy to do. He sees a systematic, elitist attempt to denigrate such work in the name of college for all. From Rowe's Facebook page: Bernie Sanders tweets, “At the end of the day, providing a path to go to college is a helluva lot cheaper than putting people on a path to jail.” I wonder sometimes, if the best way to question the increasingly dangerous idea that a college education is the best path for the most people, is to stop fighting the sentiment directly, and simply shine a light on the knuckleheads who continue to perpetuate this nonsense. This latest tweet from Bernie Sanders is a prime example. In less than 140 characters, he’s managed to imply that a path to prison is the most likely alternative to a path to college. Pardon my acronym, but...WTF!?... It’s a cautionary tale as predictable as it is false. But now, as people are slowly starting to understand the obscenity of 1.3 trillion dollars in student loans, along with the abundance of opportunity for those with the proper training, it seems the proponents of “college for all” need something even more frightening than the prospect of a career in the trades to frighten the next class into signing on the dotted line. According to Senator Sanders, that “something,” is a path to jail. I try not to be political on this page, because the truth is, arrogance and elitism are alive and well in every corner of every party—especially with respect to this topic. But I have to admit, this is the first time I’ve seen an elected official support the hyper-inflated cost of a diploma by juxtaposing it with the hyper-inflated cost of incarceration. Honestly, I’m not sure what to make of it. When Reason TV interviewed Rowe, he made a similar argument. It's as forceful as it is convincing. Take a look or a listen. Transcript after the jump. Diplomas vs. Dirty Jobs TV host Mike Rowe on the educational bias against unglamorous, good-paying work Nick Gillespie from the April 2014 issue "If we are lending money that ostensibly we don't have to kids who have no hope of making it back in order to train them for jobs that clearly don't exist, I might suggest that we've gone around the bend a little bit," says TV personality Mike Rowe. Rowe is the longtime host of Discovery Channel'sDirty Jobs, where he takes on gigs straight out of Bob Dylan songs: working on fishing boats, sewer systems, oil derricks, slaughterhouses, and more. "There is a real disconnect in the way that we educate vis-a-vis the opportunities that are available," he adds. "You have right now about 3 million jobs in transportation, commerce, and trades that can't be filled." Rowe, who once sang for the Baltimore Opera and worked as an on-air pitchman for the shopping channel QVC, worries that traditional K-12 education demonizes good-paying, in-demand blue-collar fields while insisting instead that everyone get a college degree. Between the mikeroweWORKS Foundation and Profoundly Disconnected, a venture between Rowe and the heavy equipment manufacturer Caterpillar, the TV personality is hoping both to help people find new careers and to publicize what he calls "the diploma dilemma." Rowe recently sat down with reason's Nick Gillespie to discuss the problem with taxpayer-supported college loans, the importance of a work ethic, the burden of regulatory compliance, and his own unusual work history. For video of the interview, go here or see the video embedded at the end of this article. reason: We're doing everything we can to push every kid to go to a four-year college. What's wrong there? Mike Rowe: It's not working. You've got a trillion dollars in debt on the student loan side. We have a skills gap. reason: What do you mean by skills gap? Rowe: You have right now about 3 million jobs in transportation, commerce, and trades that can't be filled. reason: This is anything from carpentry to being an electrician, a plumber, construction- Rowe: Heating, electric, truck drivers. Welders is a big one. There's a long list of jobs that parents typically don't sit down and say to their kids: "Look, if all goes well, this is what you're going to do." reason: But these are actually jobs that are not only available but pay well. Rowe: Yes, is the short answer. But of course, "pay well" is kind of relative. What they are mostly, in my opinion, are opportunities. A good welder right now can pretty much write his or her own ticket. Companies like Caterpillar, Bechtel, you can go down the list: They have had open shortages for decades. I talked to a kid the other day up in Butler, North Dakota. So it's Butler, right? It's cold. But he works on heavy equipment up there, makes over $100 an hour, works when he wants, paid for his house in cash, raising a family, no debt. People don't tell his story. reason: Instead, we're telling everybody you've got to get that sheepskin, you've got to get the college B.A., otherwise you're not going to be happy or have any opportunity. Rowe: It feels that way to me. That was my experience in high school, and I still hear the same platitudes today. reason: You have a great story about your high school guidance counselor. Rowe: Mr. Dunbar, yeah. He called me down, as millions of kids have been called down, to talk about my future. He was looking at some test scores and said, "You're not an idiot. You've got a shot at James Madison University in Maryland, maybe some other schools." I said, "I don't have any money, but more importantly, I don't have any idea what I want to do. So, while I figure that out, I thought I'd go to a community college." At which point he says, "Well, that's way below your potential," and pointed to the poster that said "Work Smart, Not Hard." The thing about the poster wasn't just the bromide at the bottom. It was the image. On the left-hand side you've got a college graduate, recently matriculated, cap and gown, sun setting behind him, looking like he owns the world and the future. Next to him is a mechanic, holding a wrench, covered in grease or something worse, looking at the ground like he won the vocational consolation prize of all time. That was a very specific PR campaign for college, higher education. reason: This was the late '70s? Rowe: 1979, yeah. All PR campaigns always go too far, and they always, it seems, promote the thing they want to focus on at the expense of something else. Now, it's kind of egregious in education, but in my opinion, it shouldn't be shocking, because the best way to sell a truck is to talk about how lousy the competitor is. The best way to get elected is to talk about how creepy your opponent is. The best way to really promote college hard is to talk about how subordinate all the other opportunities are. Now, as part of our ongoing campaign for the trades, we sell posters that say "Work Smart and Hard." I now play the role of the graduate standing there holding my degree looking somewhat confused by the industrial setting in which I find myself next to a far more aspirational tradesman. It's just another way to juxtapose these roles. reason: What are the goals of the "Work Smart and Hard" campaign? Rowe: We have to change the conversation and we have to challenge the existing protocol. The first thing is this general PR campaign around the trades. The second thing, there is a financial thing. The posters were only $10, but if I can get 20,000 or 30,000 of them hanging in guidance counselors' offices around the country, well that's fun. We take the money we raise, of course, and it goes into a foundation to keep the conversation going and to award what we call a work ethic scholarship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGNHL Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Mike Rowe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member SnowRider Posted May 23, 2016 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted May 23, 2016 1 minute ago, GGNHL said: Mike Rowe. What's your degree in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepr2 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 1 minute ago, SnowRider said: What's your degree in? Not environmental studies, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) 25 minutes ago, SnowRider said: What's your degree in? Tell us again how often you use your degree for your job. Your liberal hypocrisy is showing. I use mine everyday. Can you say the same? Edited May 23, 2016 by racer254 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT MXZ XRS Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) Mike Rowe, the popular host of CNN's Somebody's Gotta Do It and former host of Discovery Channel's Dirty Jobs, lays into Bernie Sanders for pushing everyone to go to college. Rowe, whom Reason interviewed in December 2013 (see below), isn't against college, but he takes exception to the idea that the only legit way to get ahead these days is to get a university sheepskin. Rather, he argues, there are lots of excellent trade jobs available that many people would not only be successful at but happy to do. He sees a systematic, elitist attempt to denigrate such work in the name of college for all. Mike Edited May 23, 2016 by SVT Renegade XRS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledder10 Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 40 minutes ago, SVT Renegade XRS said: Mike Rowe, the popular host of CNN's Somebody's Gotta Do It and former host of Discovery Channel's Dirty Jobs, lays into Bernie Sanders for pushing everyone to go to college. Rowe, whom Reason interviewed in December 2013 (see below), isn't against college, but he takes exception to the idea that the only legit way to get ahead these days is to get a university sheepskin. Rather, he argues, there are lots of excellent trade jobs available that many people would not only be successful at but happy to do. He sees a systematic, elitist attempt to denigrate such work in the name of college for all. Mike Summed it up perfectly IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtssrx Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) Bernie Sanders is a big government guy. Colleges are mostly government run. Of course he wants everyone to have a student loan and go to college Edited May 23, 2016 by jtssrx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mileage Psycho Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I have said for many years that college isn't for everyone and I think that it is ridiculous that the president and many others talk as if college is the end all be all, there are many good career opportunities available for the HS graduate to make more money than the typical college grad who has a liberal arts degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtssrx Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 1 minute ago, Mileage Psycho said: I have said for many years that college isn't for everyone and I think that it is ridiculous that the president and many others talk as if college is the end all be all, there are many good career opportunities available for the HS graduate to make more money than the typical college grad who has a liberal arts degree. They don't care if you're educated they want you on the hook to pay a loan back to the federal government Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT MXZ XRS Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 9 minutes ago, sledder10 said: Summed it up perfectly IMO. Yep 5 minutes ago, Mileage Psycho said: I have said for many years that college isn't for everyone and I think that it is ridiculous that the president and many others talk as if college is the end all be all, there are many good career opportunities available for the HS graduate to make more money than the typical college grad who has a liberal arts degree. Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member Kivalo Posted May 23, 2016 Gold Member Share Posted May 23, 2016 Mike Rowe makes some great points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT MXZ XRS Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 6 minutes ago, jtssrx said: They don't care if you're educated they want you on the hook to pay a loan back to the federal government Yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT MXZ XRS Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Just now, Kivalo said: Mike Rowe makes some great points. Yep, and he's not afraid to speak his mind about it either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Jesus here we go again. He told Obama the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold War Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 No one wants to work and they sure the hell don't want to get dirty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGNHL Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Mileage Psycho said: I have said for many years that college isn't for everyone and I think that it is ridiculous that the president and many others talk as if college is the end all be all, there are many good career opportunities available for the HS graduate to make more money than the typical college grad who has a liberal arts degree. Good post, I agree completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGNHL Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 2 hours ago, SnowRider said: What's your degree in? Accounting. Don't be jealous I actually used my degree right out of college and actually graduated on time because I wasn't fucking off on mommy and daddy's dime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 If you're dumb and lazy no amount of schooling is going to fix that. going to college just for the sake of going to college is stupid. I've seen so many kids go get a business admin degree in their parents dime just for the party Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momorider Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Most every trade requires some college Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 11 minutes ago, Momorider said: Most every trade requires some college no it doesnt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 3 hours ago, Momorider said: Most every trade requires some college Somewhat true. Some will continue on for a engineering degree in their specific field. Tech High Schools have seen a big upturn in students extending their educations into a college instead of entering their traditional fields of study after graduation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) Yeah, I caught this story yesterday. IMO, colleges have become just as corrupt as any business givin the ability to dupe the citizens. They are pumping out hundreds of thousands of kids every year whose parents were taught to believe a good education was the key to success. Well, half truths and lies. First, these kids really aren't getting a "good education" anymore. They are just another check in the credit column that drives the cog. And second, like stated a few posts up, if you have no drive (lazy fuck) that degree may only get you to the interview table and a good bluff there may get you in the door. But after that....days are numbered. My degrees sit in the "easy and most common" column: Business. Did they help me? Maybe...probably...hell....maybe not, I don't really know. I was a C student who changed classes based on how much my attendance may have been required. Oh..because I worked full time too. Why did I make good money? Drive baby! My fucking paper degrees are in a zerox box with the rest of my "love me wall" starter kit. Hate to sound like one of the "old guys"...bit these kids today are kinda fucked. And it's our fault for whispering into their dreams that with a good education, the sky is the limit! And pinning a medal on every one of them for just showing up. Sorry kids....but you may just be fucked. Edited May 24, 2016 by Zambroski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Many young people have given up before they reach college. Yes colleges have become profit centers instead of higher learning centers.....just sell seats and move them along for the next class. Listened to Sanders speak a while back in an interview and he stated what I have been for years ....a 60's or 70's High School diploma is equal to today's 4 year college degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepr2 Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Yeah, lets make college free, then it will be as worthless as a high school indoctrination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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