Ukraine didn’t lose. Russia just got everything they wanted.

[Highmark]

21 minutes ago, akvanden said:

“Russia planned to invade Ukraine over a 10-day period and thereafter occupy the country..”

https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/special-resources/preliminary-lessons-conventional-warfighting-russias-invasion-ukraine-february-july-2022?ssp=1&darkschemeovr=1&setlang=en-US&safesearch=moderate

 

“Putin thought Russia's military could capture Kyiv in 2 days, but it still hasn't in 20”

https://www.businessinsider.com/vladimir-putin-russian-forces-could-take-kyiv-ukraine-two-days-2022-3
 

“US intelligence officials are concerned that Kyiv could fall under Russian control within days, according to two sources familiar with the latest intelligence.

The sources said that the initial US assessment from before the invasion -- which anticipated that the Ukrainian capital would be overrun within one to four days of a Russian attack -- remains the current expectation.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/02/25/politics/kyiv-russia-ukraine-us-intelligence/index.html

So business insider, CNN and a Pro Ukrainian study is your proof.    The CNN article is using US intelligence sources not Russian.  Our MI is completely accurate and trustworthy.    As for the BI....capturing Kyiv isn't taking the whole country dude. 

From your first link.

The full-scale invasion of Ukraine on 24 February 2022 has provided an invaluable opportunity to assess the capabilities of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (AFRF) and the implications of a range of capabilities for modern warfare. Many publicly made judgements on these issues have lacked supporting data or insight into Ukrainian operational planning and decision-making. To ensure that those drawing lessons from the conflict do so from a solid foundation, this report seeks to outline key lessons, based on the operational data accumulated by the Ukrainian General Staff, from the fighting between February and July 2022. As the underlying source material for much of this report cannot yet be made public, this should be understood as testimony rather than as an academic study. Given the requirements for operational security, it is necessarily incomplete.

Not one person with military experience. 

https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/special-resources/preliminary-lessons-conventional-warfighting-russias-invasion-ukraine-february-july-2022?ssp=1&darkschemeovr=1&setlang=en-US&safesearch=moderate

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Highmark

[akvanden]

35 minutes ago, Highmark said:

So business insider, CNN and a Pro Ukrainian study is your proof.    The CNN article is using US intelligence sources not Russian.  Our MI is completely accurate and trustworthy.    As for the BI....capturing Kyiv isn't taking the whole country dude

Oh boy, the conversion turns into a giggles fest over how many days Russia/western intelligence thought it would take to capture Kyiv. Based on prior history, I’m guessing the convo is wrapping up then? 

I posted multiple sources including US Intel, to show that they were similarly aligned in the first few days. Giggle giggle.

Who stated Russia was taking all of Ukraine, dude? The goal was to cutoff leadership in Kyiv, effectively cutting leadership to the rest of Ukraines fighting forces.

 

I’ll leave you with this. Russia’s 40 mile long convey was 20 miles from Kyiv within days of the invasion. Maybe the plan was to just camp there for a few months….? Do you have any differing sources with a different timeline to share?

Giggle.

Giggle.

Giggle.

[Highmark]

2 hours ago, Highmark said:

Didn't say it would be the only thing we would be using just saying our govt openly said we are low for our own stockpiles.   I think announcing that was foolish.

Getting shells from NK could be a financial decision.   Weapons for oil/gas.   Possibly cheaper than making them.   Likely a combination they can't keep up and cheaper.

Not sure where you are getting Russia only planned for this to take a few weeks.  

Fact is its a cluster fuck we should have done everything to avoid getting involved in except stating Ukraine should not be in NATO. 

 

 

1 hour ago, akvanden said:

“Russia planned to invade Ukraine over a 10-day period and thereafter occupy the country..”

https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/special-resources/preliminary-lessons-conventional-warfighting-russias-invasion-ukraine-february-july-2022?ssp=1&darkschemeovr=1&setlang=en-US&safesearch=moderate

 

“Putin thought Russia's military could capture Kyiv in 2 days, but it still hasn't in 20”

https://www.businessinsider.com/vladimir-putin-russian-forces-could-take-kyiv-ukraine-two-days-2022-3
 

“US intelligence officials are concerned that Kyiv could fall under Russian control within days, according to two sources familiar with the latest intelligence.

The sources said that the initial US assessment from before the invasion -- which anticipated that the Ukrainian capital would be overrun within one to four days of a Russian attack -- remains the current expectation.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/02/25/politics/kyiv-russia-ukraine-us-intelligence/index.html

 

2 minutes ago, akvanden said:

Oh boy, the conversion turns into a giggles fest over how many days Russia/western intelligence thought it would take to capture Kyiv. Based on prior history, I’m guessing the convo is wrapping up then? 

I posted multiple sources including US Intel, to show that they were similarly aligned in the first few days. Giggle giggle.

Who stated Russia was taking all of Ukraine, dude? The goal was to cutoff leadership in Kyiv, effectively cutting leadership to the rest of Ukraines fighting forces.

 

I’ll leave you with this. Russia’s 40 mile long convey was 20 miles from Kyiv within days of the invasion. Maybe the plan was to just camp there for a few months….? Do you have any differing sources with a different timeline to share?

Giggle.

Giggle.

Giggle.

Ummm......you did.   Invade Ukraine over 10 day period then occupy the county now means they were just going to take Kyiv and the leadership.   

Laughs Hysterically.  

[Voodoo]

4 hours ago, Rod said:

Wonder what your government would do if someone was setting up shop on their doorstep 

 

Well said...

Ottawa and the Dope are just a cunt hair shy of communist and socialists.

I suggest a preemptive strike!!

Remember, we lost to a bunch of very determined towel headed goat fuckers.

[akvanden]

7 minutes ago, Highmark said:

 

 

Ummm......you did.   Invade Ukraine over 10 day period then occupy the county now means they were just going to take Kyiv and the leadership.   

Laughs Hysterically.  

You misquoted, but here’s the rest of the quote for you.

Russia planned to invade Ukraine over a 10-day period and thereafter occupy the country to enable annexation by August 2022. The Russian plan presupposed that speed, and the use of deception to keep Ukrainian forces away from Kyiv, could enable the rapid seizure of the capital.

 

What do you think they were planning to do 20 miles from the capital with an  40 mile convoy in the immediate days of the invasion? Take Kyiv quickly or not?

[Rod]

Is fagden literally retarded 

[Highmark]

2 minutes ago, akvanden said:

You misquoted, but here’s the rest of the quote for you.

Russia planned to invade Ukraine over a 10-day period and thereafter occupy the country to enable annexation by August 2022. The Russian plan presupposed that speed, and the use of deception to keep Ukrainian forces away from Kyiv, could enable the rapid seizure of the capital.

 

What do you think they were planning to do 20 miles from the capital with an  40 mile convoy in the immediate days of the invasion? Take Kyiv quickly or not?

So what does occupy the country mean?   

[Rod]

1 hour ago, Carlos Danger said:

Right but Russia has been burning through 800 to 900 troops a day in November. Standard military doctrine says you need 3 to 1 if you are the invading force and I think Russia is slipping below those numbers. In a half a year the Russians have not been able to move the lines. The Ukrainians on the other hand have crossed the Dinipro river and established a foot hold. 

Are you on glue? 
 

russia literally took lands, and dug in a defensive line. Then Biden demanded that Ukraine throw bodies at the defensive line and it didn’t work. Ukraine lost a shit pile of people. Russia wasn’t trying to advance because Ukraine was attacking, so it made more sense to just hold the defensive lines while Ukraine basically destroyed themselves. Now the Ukrainian military is decimated and you’ll see Russia advance now. Russia has like 10x the population of Ukraine so even if Russia has lost like 3-1 like you were lied to about it still wouldn’t matter. 

[akvanden]

6 minutes ago, Highmark said:

So what does occupy the country mean?   

No clue. They illegally annexed the four regions regardless of failing to capture Kyiv. Doubt you need to hold the west to steal the east, especially once new friendly leadership is in place.

[Highmark]

4 hours ago, akvanden said:

It’s just a conversation we’re having, and it’s the same thing you said - intelligence was wrong, pick your reason as to why. Western intelligence thought the “special military operation” would be over in weeks. Right? And then Finland and Sweden joined NATO in response to Russia’s invasion, even though Russia is weak.

 

Russia. They mobilized 300k additional troops to send to Ukraine specifically. Certainly wouldn’t have needed to do that if it was over in mere weeks as initially planned.

On September 21, President Putin declared a partial mobilization in Russia. Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu clarified that 300,000 reservists primarily with combat experience would be called up, who would undergo training before being sent to the special military operation zone.

https://tass.com/defense/1530835/amp

 

Never said they lost any, said they’re unable to control them as Ukrainian troops are still in those regions.

But that’s why they’re buy shells from North Korea - their inability to produce what they’re using.

 

Do you think we’d be using as much artillery if we had air superiority? Naval? Or any other tools at our disposal that we’re not giving to Ukraine? I can’t imagine a war where our soldiers are only using artillery and javelins.

 

2 minutes ago, akvanden said:

No clue. They illegally annexed the four regions regardless of failing to capture Kyiv. Doubt you need to hold the west to steal the east, especially once new friendly leadership is in place.

Dude just stop.   You claimed plain as day that Russia thought they would have it done it 2 weeks which included occupation.  

 

[Rod]

Russia initially went in with a small force to show the US that they were fed up with their bullshit 

it did work, zelensky was ready to sign a peace agreement just a few weeks in but Boris Johnson and Biden demanded that zelensky fight instead 

 

 

[Rod]

There’s literally copies of the peace agreement out there lol

But the same news that convinced all these morons that Trump was a Russian agent simply can’t be lying to them this time!

[Anler]

17 hours ago, akvanden said:

Sour grapes

 

Yes

[Anler]

5 hours ago, Rod said:

Russia is literally the worlds largest nuclear force

if they wanted to wipe Ukraine off the map they could do it in minutes 

Imagine if Russia funded a coup in Mexico and was building a big military in Mexico and was trying to set up a naval base in cancun. You think your government would stand for it? Doubt it 

I mean just last week these boneheads were still talking about Ukrainian victories but this week... War is over, Russia won LOL 

So basically everything we said is what happened. /

[akvanden]

43 minutes ago, Highmark said:

 

Dude just stop.   You claimed plain as day that Russia thought they would have it done it 2 weeks which included occupation.  

 

I posted three links, all of which state the expectations were for a quick fall of Kyiv, from both sides. I even said that in the second post on the thread. But if you know that I really meant Russian military in every part of Ukraine (even though I never said that, nor would it be needed after cutting off political and military leadership in Kyiv, nor was/would it be needed to annex the four regions they wanted) then you sir have taken the upper hand in the conversation and really proven me wrong. Touche. 
 

 

If only now we can figure out what Russia was doing with their 40 mile convoy 20 miles from Kyiv in the initial days of the war. I've already asked, want to answer the question finally? Fast or prolonged taking of Kyiv?

[Anler]

6 hours ago, Carlos Danger said:

Russian military is not as big as it used to be. The damage done to Russia and it's military will take decades to replace.

 

5 hours ago, akvanden said:

It’s just a conversation we’re having, and it’s the same thing you said - intelligence was wrong, pick your reason as to why. Western intelligence thought the “special military operation” would be over in weeks. Right? And then Finland and Sweden joined NATO in response to Russia’s invasion, even though Russia is weak.

 

Russia. They mobilized 300k additional troops to send to Ukraine specifically. Certainly wouldn’t have needed to do that if it was over in mere weeks as initially planned.

On September 21, President Putin declared a partial mobilization in Russia. Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu clarified that 300,000 reservists primarily with combat experience would be called up, who would undergo training before being sent to the special military operation zone.

https://tass.com/defense/1530835/amp

 

Never said they lost any, said they’re unable to control them as Ukrainian troops are still in those regions.

But that’s why they’re buy shells from North Korea - their inability to produce what they’re using.

 

Do you think we’d be using as much artillery if we had air superiority? Naval? Or any other tools at our disposal that we’re not giving to Ukraine? I can’t imagine a war where our soldiers are only using artillery and javelins.

You got duped...again. It was all like we said from the beginning

[Carlos Danger]

The Black Sea Fleet is out of Crimea. The Russians have been completely unable to achieve their goals around Adivca to the point where they are reduced to sending foot soldiers only. The Russians air force is limited as to how close they get to the front lines as the Ukraine air defense is robust. Yea Russia is doing great.

[Rod]

7 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said:

The Black Sea Fleet is out of Crimea. The Russians have been completely unable to achieve their goals around Adivca to the point where they are reduced to sending foot soldiers only. The Russians air force is limited as to how close they get to the front lines as the Ukraine air defense is robust. Yea Russia is doing great.

What planes does Ukraine even have  

 

[akvanden]

43 minutes ago, Anler said:

You got duped...again. It was all like we said from the beginning

If I remember correctly, you and Colonel macgregor thought this was going to be over by summer 2022. Here we are nearly two years later and Russia still can't fully control the regions they annexed. And Russia pushed two more countries to join NATO, and most likely what's left of Ukraine to follow. Did you predict that too?

Edited November 29, 2023 by akvanden

[steve from amherst]

4 minutes ago, akvanden said:

  Here we are nearly three years later and Russia still can't fully control the regions they annexed.  

It will not even be 2 yrs until February.

[Rod]

5 minutes ago, akvanden said:

If I remember correctly, you and Colonel macgregor thought this was going to be over by summer 2022. Here we are nearly three years later and Russia still can't fully control the regions they annexed. And Russia pushed two more countries to join NATO, and most likely what's left of Ukraine to follow. Did you predict that too?

So you just said “what’s left of Ukraine” while thinking that Russia is losing?

[spin_dry]

6 hours ago, Rod said:

Wonder what your government would do if someone was setting up shop on their doorstep 

 

You mean like the tons of fentanyl and meth pouring into the US?  

[Carlos Danger]

19 minutes ago, Rod said:

What planes does Ukraine even have  

 

They are soon to be flying F16s. The point is Russia can't use their air force to any effect which means they have little to no advantage over Ukraine in the air. 

[akvanden]

8 minutes ago, steve from amherst said:

It will not even be 2 yrs until February.

Correct, two years.

8 minutes ago, Rod said:

So you just said “what’s left of Ukraine” while thinking that Russia is losing?

Are you imagining things again? Neither sides are making gains at this point, so they’re both losing in that sense. I’ve said for awhile, well before the ‘counteroffensive’, that I doubt Ukraine will be able to completely push Russia out. 

[spin_dry]

7 hours ago, Carlos Danger said:

Russian military is not as big as it used to be. The damage done to Russia and its military will take decades to replace.

5-7 years just to replace the artillery they spent. The west got to try out a bunch of cool shit that the general public hasn’t a clue about. Ukraine was basically a proving ground for the development of more advanced military systems. Meanwhile the Russians were borrowing from North Korea and Iran. Old 1960’s technology. Let’s not forget the failed attack on Kiev. Putin tried to collapse the entire Ukrainian effort and failed miserably.