Rod Posted November 29, 2023 Author Share Posted November 29, 2023 9 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said: They are soon to be flying F16s. The point is Russia can't use their air force to any effect which means they have little to no advantage over Ukraine in the air. F16’s are old tech and inferior to Russian fighter jets. Plus I doubt that inexperienced pilots in 15 or so f16’s have a chance against hundreds of Russian MIG’s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted November 29, 2023 Author Share Posted November 29, 2023 7 minutes ago, akvanden said: Correct, two years. Are you imagining things again? Neither sides are making gains at this point, so they’re both losing in that sense. I’ve said for awhile, well before the ‘counteroffensive’, that I doubt Ukraine will be able to completely push Russia out. You realize I literally quoted you saying “what’s left of Ukraine” hey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said: They are soon to be flying F16s. The point is Russia can't use their air force to any effect which means they have little to no advantage over Ukraine in the air. US and NATO defensive weapons, emphasis on defensive, have nullified Russian air superiority. Ukraine is a massive land area. Ground game war is a meat grinder in today’s reality. So what if the Ukrainians have older soldiers? I was late 30’s and was top dog in my platoons. Experience and drive can overcome youth. No one has ever said there will be an invasion of the Russian territory. Putin just uses that as propaganda. Edited November 29, 2023 by Voodoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin_dry Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 20 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said: They are soon to be flying F16s. The point is Russia can't use their air force to any effect which means they have little to no advantage over Ukraine in the air. I imagine that the F16’s will be for close air support. They won’t be going nose to nose with any MiGs. Besides, Russia has already lost several of their so called 5th gen fighters. It’s questionable how many they actually have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akvanden Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 25 minutes ago, Rod said: You realize I literally quoted you saying “what’s left of Ukraine” hey You realize that’s not what I’m referencing in regards to your imagination? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted November 30, 2023 Author Share Posted November 30, 2023 1 hour ago, akvanden said: You realize that’s not what I’m referencing in regards to your imagination? Remember when you said “what’s left of Ukraine” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akvanden Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 25 minutes ago, Rod said: Remember when you said “what’s left of Ukraine” Remember when I said that’s not what I’m referencing in regards to your imagination? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted November 30, 2023 Author Share Posted November 30, 2023 9 minutes ago, akvanden said: Remember when I said that’s not what I’m referencing in regards to your imagination? Yeah because you’re the retard that is acting like Russia is losing and said “what’s left of Ukraine” at the same time lol and btw I believe that nato won’t take in a country that’s in an active conflict so even what’s left of Ukraine is highly unlikely to ever join nato now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Danger Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 2 hours ago, spin_dry said: I imagine that the F16’s will be for close air support. They won’t be going nose to nose with any MiGs. Besides, Russia has already lost several of their so called 5th gen fighters. It’s questionable how many they actually have. Less than ten flight worthy is the estimate. I don't think they have put any of the SU57s in action in Ukraine. They have lost a few of the gen 4+ fighters to the point where they no longer are effective near the battle lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Danger Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Rod said: F16’s are old tech and inferior to Russian fighter jets. Plus I doubt that inexperienced pilots in 15 or so f16’s have a chance against hundreds of Russian MIG’s First of all Russia barely flies Migs anymore. What they do fly is about 4 different variants of the cold war era SU27. And just so we are clear an F16 is a tough opponent. It is small cost effective and one of the most successful airframes of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted November 30, 2023 Author Share Posted November 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said: Less than ten flight worthy is the estimate. I don't think they have put any of the SU57s in action in Ukraine. They have lost a few of the gen 4+ fighters to the point where they no longer are effective near the battle lines. Russia literally has the worlds 2nd largest Air Force Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Danger Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Voodoo said: US and NATO defensive weapons, emphasis on defensive, have nullified Russian air superiority. Ukraine is a massive land area. Ground game war is a meat grinder in today’s reality. So what if the Ukrainians have older soldiers? I was late 30’s and was top dog in my platoons. Experience and drive can overcome youth. No one has ever said there will be an invasion of the Russian territory. Putin just uses that as propaganda. It is the foolish tactic the Russians have of just throwing troops at modern weapons. I don't know how long the rank and file is going to put up with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Danger Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Rod said: Russia literally has the worlds 2nd largest Air Force I don't think you understand the Russians short comings. None of Russia s modern fighters have had much success against modern Western fighters. Now Russia has fewer trained pilots as there training hours are less than half that of NATO countries. Plus the gap between the amount of modern aircraft and relics are not good. Remember Russia has always picked quantities over quantity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted November 30, 2023 Author Share Posted November 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Carlos Danger said: I don't think you understand the Russians short comings. None of Russia s modern fighters have had much success against modern Western fighters. Now Russia has fewer trained pilots as there training hours are less than half that of NATO countries. Plus the gap between the amount of modern aircraft and relics are not good. Remember Russia has always picked quantities over quantity. Ukraine isn’t a nato country and has no pilots trained on f16’s so you think that a handful of untrained pilots in f16’s are going to take out hundreds to thousands of Russian aircraft? That literally makes no sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Danger Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Rod said: Ukraine isn’t a nato country and has no pilots trained on f16’s so you think that a handful of untrained pilots in f16’s are going to take out hundreds to thousands of Russian aircraft? That literally makes no sense Thousands of aircraft? give your head a shake. The Mig29 which is pretty much all the Ukrainian's have is considered a failed design by the Russians. What the Russians have is about 1000 modern jets that are second tier in the world of modern jets. Just look at how crappy the Russian Air Force did in Syria. You are falling for the paper tiger propaganda. Russian weapon sales have tanked. The French are selling the Rafhal like hot cakes as they will sell to many of countries that the rest of Europe and the US will not. I am not sure Russia has the air power to take on Sweden let alone some of the more armed Europeans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Danger Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 13 minutes ago, Rod said: Ukraine isn’t a nato country and has no pilots trained on f16’s so you think that a handful of untrained pilots in f16’s are going to take out hundreds to thousands of Russian aircraft? That literally makes no sense Getting in a rate fight with an F16 down low is a death sentence for most fighters in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted November 30, 2023 Author Share Posted November 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Carlos Danger said: Getting in a rate fight with an F16 down low is a death sentence for most fighters in the world. The migs are literally faster and climb faster than an f16 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted November 30, 2023 Author Share Posted November 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said: Thousands of aircraft? give your head a shake. The Mig29 which is pretty much all the Ukrainian's have is considered a failed design by the Russians. What the Russians have is about 1000 modern jets that are second tier in the world of modern jets. Just look at how crappy the Russian Air Force did in Syria. You are falling for the paper tiger propaganda. Russian weapon sales have tanked. The French are selling the Rafhal like hot cakes as they will sell to many of countries that the rest of Europe and the US will not. I am not sure Russia has the air power to take on Sweden let alone some of the more armed Europeans. You know you can simply Google how many fighter jets Russia has everything you’re saying is a direct contrast to reality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Danger Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Rod said: The migs are literally faster and climb faster than an f16 lol Have you ever been close to Mig 29 or any soviet era plane? They are junk and that was what a ground crew member was telling us as he was hitting us up for some Jet A oil. The Mig 29 has a terrible record of service. But let's just run the numbers in 154 ingagements by the F16 they have 210 victories and two losses. Many of those numbers come from the Israelis who have shot down a ton of Russian and French planes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted November 30, 2023 Author Share Posted November 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Carlos Danger said: Have you ever been close to Mig 29 or any soviet era plane? They are junk and that was what a ground crew member was telling us as he was hitting us up for some Jet A oil. The Mig 29 has a terrible record of service. But let's just run the numbers in 154 ingagements by the F16 they have 210 victories and two losses. Many of those numbers come from the Israelis who have shot down a ton of Russian and French planes. You are retarded 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akvanden Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 43 minutes ago, Rod said: Yeah because you’re the retard that is acting like Russia is losing and said “what’s left of Ukraine” at the same time lol There’s the imagination. I never said Russia is losing. I’ve certainly said they’ve lost A LOT, but so has Ukraine, and what Ukraine has been able to do against a military much larger, and without -as you mentioned- an Air Force or a navy to boot, is quite impressive. 46 minutes ago, Rod said: and btw I believe that nato won’t take in a country that’s in an active conflict so even what’s left of Ukraine is highly unlikely to ever join nato now NATO leaders agreed to fast track membership for Ukraine this summer at the Vilnius Summit. They’ll most likely wait until things die down, but what’s left of Ukraine is getting in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Danger Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 here is what they have and these numbers especially the SU57 are contested. su57 20 units. Su35 118 units SU34 149 units SU30 113 units SU27 359 units Mig 35 6 units ooohh scary Migs Mig 31 129 units This is the front row stuff they have everything else is a museum piece. Keep in mind they have to spread these out from Finland to Ukraine. And this list probably does not include the Aircraft lost in Ukraine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Danger Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 8 minutes ago, Rod said: You are retarded You are uninformed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin_dry Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 Just now, Carlos Danger said: here is what they have and these numbers especially the SU57 are contested. su57 20 units. Su35 118 units SU34 149 units SU30 113 units SU27 359 units Mig 35 6 units ooohh scary Migs Mig 31 129 units This is the front row stuff they have everything else is a museum piece. Keep in mind they have to spread these out from Finland to Ukraine. And this list probably does not include the Aircraft lost in Ukraine. Russia builds shitty, low cost aircraft in mass for the simple reason they need tons of them to cover that large, mostly useless land mass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin_dry Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 44 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said: It is the foolish tactic the Russians have of just throwing troops at modern weapons. I don't know how long the rank and file is going to put up with it Historically it’s how Russia has fought wars. Basic attrition. They’ll keep throwing troops and cheap, low tech weapons into the meat grinder until the other side runs out of troops. For a leader to lose a war in Russia means their demise. So yeah. Troops mean nothing to Putin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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