Auto execs are coming clean: EVs aren't working

[Crnr2Crnr]

"People are finally seeing reality," Toyota Motor Chairman Akio Toyoda said at the Japan Mobility Show, the Wall Street Journal reported. Toyoda has long been skeptical of his peers' pure-electric blueprints. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/auto-executives-coming-clean-evs-arent-working-2023-10

shocker... 

[Skidooski]

So no more monthly EV sales reports from Grabsgaydicks?

[Shifty]

Dumbest most expensive fad ever.  

[XCR1250]

There are also some special considerations and features of EVs that can impact your car insurance rates. Here are a few to keep in mind:

• Electric vehicles tend to have newer and more updated technology, which can be costly to replace and difficult to source.

• While the purchase cost of EVs has been gradually declining, these vehicles are still more expensive on average than comparable gas-powered vehicles. Because of the higher cost of replacement, carriers may charge more for full coverage, including comprehensive and collision coverage.

• If your EV is involved in an accident, the high-voltage battery, which powers the electric motor, could be damaged and need replacing. Depending on your vehicle, battery-pack replacement can cost tens of thousands of dollars.

• Parts for certain EVs may be limited due to small manufacturing processes. This can make the repair process notably more expensive and result in long delays.

• Not all repair shops are equipped to work on EVs, so your vehicle may need to go to a special shop following an accident. This can be more costly for your insurance company.

[spin_dry]

I’ve said all along that the politicians are pushing legislation faster than the technology can mature. EV’s is definitely the future.  Not for awhile yet. Battery energy density just isn’t there. 

[Crnr2Crnr]

EVs can have their place in the market.  if people want to buy them and manufacturers can make and profit from them okydoky.  the mandates are ludicrous without an infrastructure plan.  where I see the issue is the manus are doing a 'me too' and trying to play catch up to to Tesla who is also struggling a bit atm. 

using GM as the example, if you could buy a 1/2t pickup with a plug in hybrid setup with a 3.0L diesel it would get great mileage, have adequate power with no range anxiety or fear of finding a plug.  

trying to transition from ice to EVs in the proverbial flip of a switch is the biggest issue though. 

 

[XCR1250]

Hydrogen ICE is the future.

[spin_dry]

1 minute ago, XCR1250 said:

Hydrogen ICE is the future.

Way too cumbersome compared to the convenience of electricity. It’ll never catch on. 

[XCR1250]

1 minute ago, spin_dry said:

Way too cumbersome compared to the convenience of electricity. It’ll never catch on. 

Already being done..

[XCR1250]

Biden-Harris Administration Announces $7 Billion For America’s First Clean Hydrogen Hubs, Driving Clean Manufacturing and Delivering New Economic Opportunities Nationwide | Department of Energy

[spin_dry]

1 minute ago, XCR1250 said:

Already being done..

Too cumbersome compared to electricity. It’ll never happen on scale. 

[XCR1250]

1 minute ago, spin_dry said:

Too cumbersome compared to electricity. It’ll never happen on scale. 

Already being done worldwide:

https://news.google.com/search?for=hydrogen+fuel+stations&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

 

[SnowRider]

2 minutes ago, XCR1250 said:

Biden-Harris Administration Announces $7 Billion For America’s First Clean Hydrogen Hubs, Driving Clean Manufacturing and Delivering New Economic Opportunities Nationwide | Department of Energy

Biden-Harris 

[EvilBird]

Hybrid is the way to go . 

 

[BOHICA]

22 minutes ago, XCR1250 said:

Biden-Harris Administration Announces $7 Billion For America’s First Clean Hydrogen Hubs, Driving Clean Manufacturing and Delivering New Economic Opportunities Nationwide | Department of Energy

 

22 minutes ago, spin_dry said:

Too cumbersome compared to electricity. It’ll never happen on scale. 

LONDON, Oct 25 (Reuters) - Shell (SHEL.L) will cut at least 15% of the workforce at its low-carbon solutions division and scale back its hydrogen business as part of CEO Wael Sawan's drive to boost profits, it said on Wednesday.

The staff cuts and organizational changes come after Sawan, who took the helm in January, vowed to revamp Shell's strategy to focus on higher-margin projects, steady oil output and grow natural gas production.
 

https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/shell-cuts-low-carbon-jobs-scales-back-hydrogen-ceo-overhaul-sources-2023-10-25/

[Rod]

Fords venture into the EV market has been an epic failure 

[Crnr2Crnr]

1 minute ago, EvilBird said:

Hybrid is the way to go . 

 

Toyota/Lexus have proven the model works since 1997

Ford and GM have built hybrids in the past... but abandoned them as THEY DIDN'T SELL

 

 

 

[XCR1250]

2 minutes ago, BOHICA said:

 

LONDON, Oct 25 (Reuters) - Shell (SHEL.L) will cut at least 15% of the workforce at its low-carbon solutions division and scale back its hydrogen business as part of CEO Wael Sawan's drive to boost profits, it said on Wednesday.

The staff cuts and organizational changes come after Sawan, who took the helm in January, vowed to revamp Shell's strategy to focus on higher-margin projects, steady oil output and grow natural gas production.
 

https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/shell-cuts-low-carbon-jobs-scales-back-hydrogen-ceo-overhaul-sources-2023-10-25/

To do,  "steady oil output and grow natural gas production"

[XCR1250]

5 minutes ago, EvilBird said:

Hybrid is the way to go . 

 

At least for now that's true.

[BOHICA]

Just now, XCR1250 said:

To do,  "steady oil output and grow natural gas production"

Yep.  Not hydrogen….

 

meanwhile Shell is building gasless fuel stations and BP is teaming up with Tesla.  Without big oil’s backing hydrogen is doomed.

https://news.yahoo.com/shell-station-removed-gas-pumps-100000919.html
 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-gets-100-mln-us-ultra-fast-charger-order-bp-ev-charging-unit-2023-10-26/

[stinkipinki]

I am a high level techie and as much as I like the idea of EV's, electric cars and all that, the technology just isn't there yet.
The battery technology is in the horse and buggy stages, and when the cells depreciate it's not good.
I think Hybrid's are the best bet at this point while the technology advances.

[XCR1250]

China Restricts Exports Of A Key Mineral, Stoking U.S. Fears About Battery Supply Chains

Alexander C. Kaufman

 

 

A number of very large container ships carry out container handling operations at the automated terminal of Yangshan deep-water Port, Shanghai, China, July 21, 2023.

A number of very large container ships carry out container handling operations at the automated terminal of Yangshan deep-water Port, Shanghai, China, July 21, 2023.

China has slapped export controls on graphite, a key mineral used to make steel and electric car batteries, ratcheting up a trade fight with the United States over the technologies needed to wean the world’s economy off planet-heating fossil fuels. 

The measures, announced Friday in a joint declaration from Beijing’s Ministry of Commerce and the General Administration of Customs, banned exports of artificial graphite, the natural flake version of the mineral, and products made with them unless the government grants permission. The restrictions take effect on Dec. 1. 

“Graphite is a key material that holds strategic significance in new-energy industry and global players are fiercely competing with one another in this sector,” Tian Yun, an economist in Beijing, told the Chinese nationalist newspaper Global Times. “It can be expected that similar moves will be more commonplace if the US continues to escalate sanctions in the technological field against China.”

The restrictions come as President Joe Biden has expanded the Trump administration’s trade war with China, placing export bans on technologies like the semiconductors needed to power artificial intelligence applications. The Biden administration is set to ramp up tariffs on Chinese-made solar equipment as Beijing provides its own factories with so much government support that even dairy companies are opening factories to churn out the materials for panels. In response, China in July put new export controls on two metals used to make computer chips and solar panels, gallium and germanium.

 

Employees work on the production line of lithium batteries at the workshop of a new energy lithium battery industrial park on Aug. 28 in Yichang, Hubei Province of China.

Employees work on the production line of lithium batteries at the workshop of a new energy lithium battery industrial park on Aug. 28 in Yichang, Hubei Province of China.

As with so many of the minerals required to make batteries, solar panels and other crucial energy hardware, China is the world’s top producer and exporter of graphite, generating 65% of the global supply and nearly 90% of the battery-grade version. The U.S. is the largest importer, followed by its allies in the European Union and South Korea, with whom Washington is now increasingly competing as America’s demand for graphite has grown in the past five years. Imports for consumption in the U.S. surged by more than 50% from 2021 to 2022, according to U.S. Geological Survey data. 

Yet the U.S. mines none of its own graphite. Three U.S. companies are looking to develop graphite mines in the U.S., two in Alabama and one in Alaska. In July, the Biden administration offered $37.5 million through grants issued via the Cold War-era Defense Production Act to boost the Alaskan project and support a processing facility in Washington state.

But demand is only expected to grow as funding from the Inflation Reduction Act, President Joe Biden’s landmark climate-spending law, spurs more automakers and battery companies to open factories in the U.S. 

“Virtually every lithium-ion battery chemistry uses graphite for its anode. China processes 90% of the world’s battery grade graphite. China has put export controls in place to protect national security,” Jay Turner, an environmental policy historian and author of a recent book on battery supply chains, wrote in a post on X, formerly Twitter. “Welcome to the new geopolitics of the clean energy transition.”

As the U.S. and its allies seek alternatives to China for various so-called critical minerals, the rush for graphite could put a new focus on countries in Africa. Madagascar, Mozambique and Tanzania have large reserves and increased mine production significantly from 2021 to 2022. The two countries with the largest reserves outside China are Brazil and Turkey, but mining increased only marginally in both places during that same period. 

The trade fight with China has spurred calls to mine and refine more metals in the U.S. But efforts to permit new mines have foundered as local opponents, fearful of the effects on water tables and general pollution, seek to block the permits at various levels of government. 

China’s dominance over the global supplies of critical minerals first came to light in 2010, when Beijing blocked shipments of rare earths, over which it enjoys a near monopoly, to Japan over a political dispute. While the U.S. and its allies have been slow to prioritize domestic mining and processing, China has continued to increase its share of global production and deepen ties with other major producers in Africa and Asia. 

Reluctant to simply become exporters of raw ore, which typically offers a minimal economic boost while generating a lot of pollution, many countries are now putting more government controls over mining, including creating incentives for Chinese, American and European companies to set up local processing plants. 

[Frostynuts]

How about synthetic fuel, for ICE vehicles ? Can that not be made cheap enough to be viable ?  

[Mainecat]

1 hour ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

EVs can have their place in the market.  if people want to buy them and manufacturers can make and profit from them okydoky.  the mandates are ludicrous without an infrastructure plan.  where I see the issue is the manus are doing a 'me too' and trying to play catch up to to Tesla who is also struggling a bit atm. 

using GM as the example, if you could buy a 1/2t pickup with a plug in hybrid setup with a 3.0L diesel it would get great mileage, have adequate power with no range anxiety or fear of finding a plug.  

trying to transition from ice to EVs in the proverbial flip of a switch is the biggest issue though. 

 

Yup they are not for everyone. 

[XCR1250]

Feds designate California as a hydrogen ‘hub’

By Thomas Fudge / Science and Technology Reporter

 

 

 

 

Courtesy Alliance for Renewable Clean Hydrogen Energy Systems (ARCHES)

Hydrogen containment tanks in California. Undated photo

California is one of seven hydrogen “hubs” nationwide that the U.S. Department of Energy says will be a key part of the country’s clean-energy future.

State officials said California must use its $1.2 billion in federal grants to build what amounts to an industrial ecosystem in the state that makes hydrogen more plentiful, available and cheaper.

“What the ecosystem does is balance the supply of hydrogen with the demand. The key to launching a hydrogen market is really getting to scale,” said Tyson Eckerle, a director of the Alliance for Renewable Clean Hydrogen Energy Systems (ARCHES), the state agency that will administer the plan.

“So, the more we can scale across sectors the stronger this ecosystem will be. And hydrogen is really exciting because it helps us get to the hard-to-decarbonize sectors so we can get to 100% carbon-free by 2045 in California, which is our mandate,” Eckerle said

In its application for federal funds, California focused on heavy-duty vehicles, power plants and ports. But Eckerle said hydro-powered cars will also be part of the picture.

“We’re focusing, with the federal money, on heavy duty stations. But they will, in a lot of cases, offer passenger vehicle fueling. And as we drive down costs and improve on the economies of scale, that opens up a lot more opportunities for passenger vehicle fueling as well,” Eckerle said.

California’s Hydrogen Fuel Cell Partnership estimates there are 15,000 hydrogen fuel cell cars on California roads.