Auto execs are coming clean: EVs aren't working

[XCR1250]

1 minute ago, Deephaven said:

First off.  Teslas are shit.

No way.  Complexity of both.  Fucking not something I would ever buy.

No.  As soon as batteries can get you 400mi in a < 10min charge range anxiety goes away and the charging network while sparse already has an infrastructure.  We are less than 5 years from that which will make most arguments against evs to away

 

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Auto execs are coming clean: EVs aren't working

Alexa St. John and Nora Naughton

 

 

 

General Motors CEO Mary Barra.  Nic Antaya / Stringer / Getty Images

 

• At earnings this week, several auto execs pulled back on EV targets.
• Dealers have been warning of slowing EV demand for months.
• "This is a pretty brutal space," Mercedes-Benz's CFO said this week.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With signs of growing inventory and slowing sales, auto industry executives admitted this week that their ambitious electric vehicle plans are in jeopardy, at least in the near term.

Several C-Suite leaders at some of the biggest carmakers voiced fresh unease about the electric car market's growth as concerns over the viability of these vehicles put their multi-billion-dollar electrification strategies at risk.

Among those hand-wringing is GM's Mary Barra, historically one of the automotive industry's most bullish CEOs on the future of electric vehicles. GM has been an early-mover in the electric car market, selling the Chevrolet Bolt for seven years and making bold claims about a fully electric future for the company long before its competitors got on board.

But this week on GM's third-quarter earnings call, Barra and GM struck a more sober tone. The company announced with its quarterly results that it's abandoning its targets to build 100,000 EVs in the second half of this year and another 400,000 by the first six months of 2024. GM doesn't know when it will hit those targets.

"As we get further into the transformation to EV, it's a bit bumpy," she said.

While GM's about-face was somewhat of a surprise to investors, the Detroit car company is not alone in this new view of the EV future. Even Tesla's Elon Musk warned on a recent earnings call that economic concerns would lead to waning vehicle demand, even for the long-time EV market leader.

Meanwhile, Mercedes-Benz — which is having to discount its EVs by several thousand dollars just to get them in customers' hands — isn't mincing words about the state of the EV market.

"This is a pretty brutal space," CFO Harald Wilhelm said on an analyst call. "I can hardly imagine the current status quo is fully sustainable for everybody."

EVs are getting harder to sell

But Mercedes isn't the only one; almost all current EV product is going for under sticker price these days, and on top of that, some EVs are seeing manufacturer's incentives of nearly 10%.

That's as inventory builds up at dealerships, much to the chagrin of dealers. While car buyers are in luck if they're looking for a deal on a plug-in vehicle, executives are finding even significant markdowns and discounts aren't enough. These cars are taking dealers longer to sell compared with their gas counterparts as the next wave of buyers focus on cost, infrastructure challenges, and lifestyle barriers to adopting.

Just a few months after dealers started coming forward to warn of slowing EV demand, manufacturers appear to be catching up to that reality. Ford was the first to fold, after dealers started turning away Mach-E allocations. In July, the company extended its self-imposed deadline to hit annual electric vehicle production of 600,000 by a year, and abandoned a 2026 target to build 2 million EVs.

In scrapping plans with GM to co-develop sub-$30,000 EVs, Honda CEO Toshihiro Mibe said the shifting EV environment was difficult to gauge.

"After studying this for a year, we decided that this would be difficult as a business, so at the moment we are ending development of an affordable EV," Mibe said in an interview with Bloomberg this week.

For some, this pullback is no surprise.

"People are finally seeing reality," Toyota Motor Chairman Akio Toyoda said at the Japan Mobility Show, the Wall Street Journal reported. Toyoda has long been skeptical of his peers' pure-electric blueprints.

[Steve753]

Just now, Skidooski said:

That GM's data goes back to 1966 while Tesla's goes back to 2007   

Big difference.

Just now, BOHICA said:

Ice manufactures are the top 3 subsidy receivers in all automotive subsidies.  

So? Would Tesla be debt free without handouts?

[BOHICA]

1 minute ago, Skidooski said:

That GM's data goes back to 1966 while Tesla's goes back to 2007   

Time Period for State and Local Awards: Earliest year of data: 1966. Availability of data for earlier years varies greatly from program to program. The majority of the listings for this parent company are for the period since 2005.
Time Period for Federal Awards: FY2000 to the present

[Skidooski]

3 minutes ago, BOHICA said:

Time Period for State and Local Awards: Earliest year of data: 1966. Availability of data for earlier years varies greatly from program to program. The majority of the listings for this parent company are for the period since 2005.
Time Period for Federal Awards: FY2000 to the present

So 1966 like I said

[BOHICA]

6 minutes ago, Steve753 said:

Big difference.

So? Would Tesla be debt free without handouts?

Yep.  Only manufacture that has enough cash on hand to pay all its debts.  GM and Ford….  Not even close.  Gm market value isnt even close to the amount of subsidy value it has received since FY 2000!!!  😂 

 

 

Currently, Ford has a total long-term debt of $140 billion, while GM is right behind with $115 billion in the same category. Tesla, on the other hand, has just $5 billion in long-term debt, and plenty of cash to show for it. In fact, the company has $22 billion in free cash flow, meaning that its cash minus debt gives it a $17 billion surplus.

To be sure, the auto industry requires high capital expenditures to some extent, largely due to the expensive materials involved, as well as labor and equipment for production. Automakers also need top-of-the-line research and development, which can be costly from an investment standpoint.

Cobb attributes Tesla’s low debts to a few different things, with the first being its sleek lineup of cars, innovative technology and its overall dedication to renewable energy and sustainability. Through this and CEO Elon Musk’s ability to create investor buzz on social media, Cobb points out how Tesla was able to go from a startup to a soaring stock with a high valuation around 2020.

Once Tesla became highly valued, the company gained access to equity funding instead of typical debt financing.

Edited October 27, 2023 by BOHICA

[Skidooski]

7 minutes ago, BOHICA said:

Ice manufactures are the top 3 subsidy receivers in all automotive subsidies.  

Well they have been around for almost a 100 years longer then Tesla so.....

[BOHICA]

2 minutes ago, Skidooski said:

So 1966 like I said

Over whelming majority of subsidies are 2005 to present.  The fucking tax payers took to the tune of 50 billion was what….  2009?

Edited October 27, 2023 by BOHICA

[Steve753]

Just now, BOHICA said:

Yep.  Only manufacture that has enough cash on hand to pay all its debts.  GM and Ford….  Not even close.  Gm market value is even close to the amount of subsidy value it has received since FY 2000!!!  😂 

 

 

Currently, Ford has a total long-term debt of $140 billion, while GM is right behind with $115 billion in the same category. Tesla, on the other hand, has just $5 billion in long-term debt, and plenty of cash to show for it. In fact, the company has $22 billion in free cash flow, meaning that its cash minus debt gives it a $17 billion surplus.

To be sure, the auto industry requires high capital expenditures to some extent, largely due to the expensive materials involved, as well as labor and equipment for production. Automakers also need top-of-the-line research and development, which can be costly from an investment standpoint.

Cobb attributes Tesla’s low debts to a few different things, with the first being its sleek lineup of cars, innovative technology and its overall dedication to renewable energy and sustainability. Through this and CEO Elon Musk’s ability to create investor buzz on social media, Cobb points out how Tesla was able to go from a startup to a soaring stock with a high valuation around 2020.

Once Tesla became highly valued, the company gained access to equity funding instead of typical debt financing.

Warranty issues will catch up to Tesla eventually. Time will tell with the poor quality they have.

[Skidooski]

Just now, BOHICA said:

Over welding majority of subsidies are 2005 to present.  The fucking tax payers took to the tune of 50 billion was what….  2009?

The data for GM starts in 1966 for GM and 2007 for Tesla

[BOHICA]

2 minutes ago, Steve753 said:

Warranty issues will catch up to Tesla eventually. Time will tell with the poor quality they have.

Tesla recalled a total of 3.8 million vehicles in 2022, but only about 439,000 in 2023 so far, with the sharp decline suggesting a significant improvement in Tesla's quality control and production standards.

The steep reduction in recalls also suggests that Tesla has kept the promise made at its Investor Day 2023 to enhance quality control and production standards. If Tesla's recalls continue at the same pace, the automaker is projected to hit approximately 550,000 recalls by the end of the year. 

That's quite low compared to thecompetition. For example, US automakers (Detroit Three + Tesla) collectively recalled over 16 million vehicles in the US in 2023, compared to 19 million in 2022. Last year, Tesla accounted for 20 percent of all US auto recalls, while now itrepresents just 2.7 percent of all recalls. 

It's worth mentioning that most Tesla recalls are typically fixed through over-the-air software updates. Tesla differentiates itself from many rivals in that it offers advanced over-the-air (OTA) software update capability on all itsvehicles. Since Teslas are software-defined vehicles, the automaker is able to fix remotely some issues that appear on its vehicles.

[Skidooski]

1 minute ago, Steve753 said:

Warranty issues will catch up to Tesla eventually. Time will tell with the poor quality they have.

They haven't even had time for that yet   Like an infant draining his retirement fund

Good old grabsgaydicks is getting upset though lol

[BOHICA]

1 minute ago, Skidooski said:

The data for GM starts in 1966 for GM and 2007 for Tesla

Federal subsidy and bailout data started FY 2000…..  subsidies and bailout.  Equals over 50 billion for gm since FY 2000

[Skidooski]

1 minute ago, BOHICA said:

Federal subsidy and bailout data started FY 2000…..  subsidies and bailout.  Equals over 50 billion for gm since FY 2000

You're going to be fine.....breath!!!

[BOHICA]

4 minutes ago, Skidooski said:

They haven't even had time for that yet   Like an infant draining his retirement fund

Good old grabsgaydicks is getting upset though lol

Tesla recalls cost nothing.  Cost more to mail out recall notice then actual recalls cost tesla.
 

 

The vast amount (99%) of the cars Tesla has recalled since January 2022 were fixed using a software update that didn’t require customers to go to a dealership or replace parts. 

[Skidooski]

Just now, BOHICA said:

Tesla recalls cost nothing.  Cost more to mail out recall notice then actual recalls cost tesla.
 

 

The vast amount (99%) of the cars Tesla has recalled since January 2022 were fixed using a software update that didn’t require customers to go to a dealership or replace parts. 

And the involved what, problems with brakes and steering? 

Can an over the air software update fix this?

[spin_dry]

Consumer reports ranks Tesla near the bottom for reliability. Enthusiastic Tesla owners, like arctic cat owners, overlook it.  

[Skidooski]

1 minute ago, spin_dry said:

Consumer reports ranks Tesla near the bottom for reliability. Enthusiastic Tesla owners, like arctic cat owners, overlook it.  

I was being nice when I said average to below average because Bohica is already riled up 

[BOHICA]

7 minutes ago, Skidooski said:

And the involved what, problems with brakes and steering? 

Can an over the air software update fix this?

😂. Tesla just fixed a model X brake recall.  All are already fixed before the recall notice even get mailed to consumers!  😂 

 

Tesla announced a recall for some of its newer-model vehicles due to a potential brake fluid detection issue.

The recall notice affects 55,000 of its Model X vehicles, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) said, and can be resolved with a software update.

Tesla is recalling 54,676 2021-2023 Model X vehicles.

Tesla has released an over-the-air software update, available to affected customers for free.

Owner notification letters are expected to be mailed Dec. 12, 2023.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by BOHICA

[spin_dry]

Just now, Skidooski said:

I was being nice when I said average to below average because Bohica is already riled up 

I can appreciate his enthusiasm for Tesla. The company has single handedly changed vehicle manufacturing with the Gigapress. European car makers are so afraid of the technology that they’re trying to find ways to ban it. I’m not kidding. It’s true. I personally don’t see anything that attracts me to a Tesla product. Neither do the vast majority of car buyers. 

[Skidooski]

Sooo to recap...Tesla gets government assistance, has sub par reliability and also has it's share of recalls

[Skidooski]

1 minute ago, spin_dry said:

I can appreciate his enthusiasm for Tesla. The company has single handedly changed vehicle manufacturing with the Gigapress. European car makers are so afraid of the technology that they’re trying to find ways to ban it. I’m not kidding. It’s true. I personally don’t see anything that attracts me to a Tesla product. Neither do the vast majority of car buyers. 

Technology needs to keep moving forward. Except for the cracks that are already started to show in the castings. The honeymoon phase for Tesla is pretty much over

[BOHICA]

2 minutes ago, Skidooski said:

Sooo to recap...Tesla gets government assistance, has sub par reliability and also has it's share of recalls

Is also debt free, has a lot less subsidisies given to them then any other domestic auto manufacture this century thus far, etc etc etc

[Skidooski]

1 minute ago, BOHICA said:

Is also debt free, has a lot less subsidisies given to them then any other domestic auto manufacture this century thus far, etc etc etc

Whatever you need to tell yourself as you start to regret that Tesla tattoo 

[Steve753]

15 minutes ago, Skidooski said:

Sooo to recap...Tesla gets government assistance, has sub par reliability and also has it's share of recalls

Sounds like a good solid base for years to come! Especially when the large majority of people have no interest in owning one.

[spin_dry]

12 minutes ago, Skidooski said:

Technology needs to keep moving forward. Except for the cracks that are already started to show in the castings. The honeymoon phase for Tesla is pretty much over

Castings can be engineered to correct cracking. The casting can also accept welds. Toyota is moving in that direction as well. Their first models will be out in “26-“27. Toyota is going to fucking kill it.