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Just now, racinfarmer said:

It is disappointing to hear you think so little of your sled.

$45.

I love the sled. I will ride it every time my bride rides. Will give me a true test between the two. It is sad to hear that u are unwilling to give kROMMER a little love.

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1 minute ago, ZR6000RR said:

I love the sled. I will ride it every time my bride rides. Will give me a true test between the two. It is sad to hear that u are unwilling to give kROMMER a little love.

You said I'd be better off giving a little beeg to krommer than I would be owning your obsolete sled.

$40

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40 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

Fuck you.It says Engineering tech

That is NOT an engineer, but his bitch.

...as for the rest of your stupidity, you work in the public sector and are too fucking stupid to use something other than your email for a name on a forum so anyone can know about anything about you.  What we all know is that you are a pathetic loser.

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4 hours ago, Bontz said:

I'll be accused of hating, I know .... but

"Competitive" also means in the market place, right?  Finally getting into the 2-stroke 850 game was needed as much as anything to get people to even consider going back to Cat (or staying with Cat, after only getting to purchase a 600 in the new chassis).  That's not hate, it's reality.  But if it means I'll be labeled a hater - so be it, I guess.

Competitive to me is referring to the machine.  Not the company portfolio or stock numbers or any number of dumb factors you guys cherry pick to suit your hate.  I am a consumer/rider.  I care about the machine that I own and ride.

We've been over all of this a hundred times.  

Next, you will say "well if they aren't competitive in the marketplace then they won't be making sleds any more grrrrr  Rawwwrr"

I'm not mad that you guys have this weird hate complex.  I know you can't control it.  I don't get it but I don't think you even understand it yourself either so, I forgive you.  But I'll still call it out.  Then you can all say I'm the one with the glasses on.

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4 minutes ago, mnstang said:

Competitive to me is referring to the machine.  Not the company portfolio or stock numbers or any number of dumb factors you guys cherry pick to suit your hate.  I am a consumer/rider.  I care about the machine that I own and ride.

We've been over all of this a hundred times.  

Next, you will say "well if they aren't competitive in the marketplace then they won't be making sleds any more grrrrr  Rawwwrr"

I'm not mad that you guys have this weird hate complex.  I know you can't control it.  I don't get it but I don't think you even understand it yourself either so, I forgive you.  But I'll still call it out.  Then you can all say I'm the one with the glasses on.

There is only 4, maybe 5 of them. One good Tornado or three? Problem solved. kROMMER? Dies in his sleep.

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BRP seems to have a lot of FU$ to throw at racing the past few years... maybe because they sell so many sleds?  No race sleds XC or SX were shown at HD to my knowledge?  :dunno:

Cat has ZH312, the TH68 of XC racing.  Guess we'll see how much better (more competitive) this new buggy is by seeing the results of everyone else beneath his caliber this winter. 

Rumor has it the availability of RXCs for 'racers' is bleak which seems like an odd business decision for a company that wants to be competitive.  No word on the SX side and I'll be less than shocked if their back on the 2018 chassis again. 

How about that big bore though? 

:)

 

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7 hours ago, mnstang said:

Competitive to me is referring to the Ferrari like machine.  Not the company portfolio or stock numbers or any number of dumb factors you guys cherry pick to suit your hate.  I am a consumer/rider.  I care about the machine that I own and ride.

We've been over all of this a hundred times.  

Next, you will say "well if they aren't competitive in the marketplace then they won't be making sleds any more grrrrr  Rawwwrr"

I'm not mad that you guys have this weird hate complex.  I know you can't control it.  I don't get it but I don't think you even understand it yourself either so, I forgive you.  But I'll still call it out.  Then you can all say I'm the one with the glasses on.

Insert Ferrari like

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8 hours ago, mnstang said:

Competitive to me is referring to the machine.  Not the company portfolio or stock numbers or any number of dumb factors you guys cherry pick to suit your hate.  I am a consumer/rider.  I care about the machine that I own and ride.

We've been over all of this a hundred times.  

Next, you will say "well if they aren't competitive in the marketplace then they won't be making sleds any more grrrrr  Rawwwrr"

I'm not mad that you guys have this weird hate complex.  I know you can't control it.  I don't get it but I don't think you even understand it yourself either so, I forgive you.  But I'll still call it out.  Then you can all say I'm the one with the glasses on.

The thing is that under textron, AC has become un-competitive in the marketplace (and sno x).  sales/production numbers have fallen off a cliff.  Snow market share is down below 10%, and isn't going to increase at all until 2025 at the earliest.  Despite the release of the catalyst, AC will be lucky not to lose market share again this year.
5 years ago I would have said it's impossible to fuck up a company as bad as they have done with AC, but here we are.

What they've done to the sales on the snow side is nothing at all compared to what's happened to the dirt side...

CF moto now sells far more units, and has better aftermarket support than AC

Edited by krom
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1 hour ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

BRP seems to have a lot of FU$ to throw at racing the past few years... maybe because they sell so many sleds?  No race sleds XC or SX were shown at HD to my knowledge?  :dunno:

Cat has ZH312, the TH68 of XC racing.  Guess we'll see how much better (more competitive) this new buggy is by seeing the results of everyone else beneath his caliber this winter. 

Rumor has it the availability of RXCs for 'racers' is bleak which seems like an odd business decision for a company that wants to be competitive.  No word on the SX side and I'll be less than shocked if their back on the 2018 chassis again. 

How about that big bore though? 

:)

 

Word on the street, 2025 is when they are hoping for a new SX machine.

Edited by airflite1
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@Crnr2Crnr ski doo, released their snow X machine at haydays
 
LEARN ABOUT THE 2024 MXZX 600RS CHANGES:
The Ski Doo MXZx 600RS E-TEC is incorporating REV Gen5 DNA for 2024 and bringing additional improvements to cement its place on top of the podium.
While the MXZx 600 RS has been the class of the field, resting on laurels isn’t how the BRP Race Team operates, and this year’s snocross racing snowmobile clearly demonstrates that – as did the previously announced MXZ X-RS with Competition Package and Summit Hill Climb Edition that were heavily influenced production-based models.
The newest version of the MXZx 600RS will deliver more performance and durability for top pros and independents alike with key features from the REV Gen5 platform.
The list of improvements doesn’t stop with the platform as it also includes a re-engineered rear suspension and engine updates to take things up another notch.
The REV platform with its open cockpit design and centrally balanced engine provide superior rider ergonomics and handling in rough conditions. The layout delivers agile and responsive behavior to rider input while the Ergo Step side panels and beveled tunnel allow racers the room to attack – without interference from the chassis.
It features the REV Gen5 four-point engine mounting system and improved CVT alignment for more consistent clutch performance plus a stiffer chassis that provides more precise handling and better feedback to the rider. Another Gen5 feature is the quick-change drive axle for easier and faster track changes, making race weekends easier for the pit crews.
The RS specific front S-Module is also reinforced for improved durability and because racing can lead to unexpected events, the ignition coil and RAVE motor have been relocated inboard to protect from impacts.
Changes from last year carryover in the RAS RS front suspension with shorter shock length that maintains the same travel to help lower the center of gravity, and a spring rate that was increased to reduce roll, for better cornering.
The front suspension continues to feature a long spindle design that allows high cornering speeds and a unique power steering system exclusive to the MXZx RS race sled that provides ultra-precise handling with less effort.
The legendary rMotion RS rear suspension has also undergone many engineering updates for improved performance including a refined center arm for improved traction in rough conditions – especially the ice edges and ridges that develop in snocross racing.
The motion ratio of the rear arm is changed with a new linkage that provides a softer initial feel and when combined with the improved coupling it delivers better traction and weight transfer for more control in wicked snocross conditions.
The MXZ RS continues to use bespoke 46 mm KYB Pro Series shocks that have Integral Base Valves with the ability to adjust not only High and Low Speed Compression but also High Speed rebound and calibration has been updated to match the rear suspension geometry changes.
The engine powering the MXZx 600RS E-TEC is as sophisticated as any 2-stroke on earth – except maybe the Rotax 850 E-TEC Turbo R that features water injection, where it draws technology from like booster injectors, a short intake tract with double reeds and digital eRAVE. But that doesn’t mean it’s finicky or high maintenance – it’s actually just the opposite.
By using E-TEC advanced systems, this 600cc high output monster is a hands-off package that compensates for weather and altitude conditions while delivering maximum horsepower at all times without human intervention.
This year the engine uses new larger injectors and further refined calibration that improves reliability and overall performance yet again.
2024 MXZx 600RS HIGHLIGHTS:
NEW REV Gen5 Platform DNA
● Taper/tilt tunnel design
● NEW 4-point engine mounting
● NEW quick change drive axle
● Short heat exchanger with internal loop
● 137″ Track
● Lightweight Lexan Hood
● Quiet, high flow Airbox Design
● LED Lightweight Headlights
● NEW Reinforced S module
● MX inspired seat and hi-traction cover
● Racing foot box
● 5-gallon fuel tank
● Lower center of gravity
● High Air Flow Left Vent
RAS RS Front Suspension
● Kashima coated 46mm KYB Pro Series shocks (High Speed /Low Speed compression and High Speed / Low Speed Rebound adjustments)
● Integral Base Valve Adjuster
● Rack steering with power assist
● Long Spindle design (Stronger + better speed cornering)
● Lightweight Pilot R2 Ski – Reinforced
NEW rMotion RS Rear Suspension
● Race proven rail design, higher front arm mount, new color
● 137″ length
● NEW refined front arm
● NEW motion ratio (softer initial)
● NEW improved coupling
● Kashima coated 46mm KYB Pro Series piggyback center shock w/ High Speed / Low Speed compression and High Speed Rebound adjustment
● Kashima coated 46mm KYB Pro Series piggyback rear shock w/ High Speed / Low Speed compression and High Speed / Low Speed rebound adjustment
● Integral Base Valve Adjuster
● Revised geometry
● Holeshot Device
Rotax 600RS E-TEC Engine (599.4 cc)
● E-TEC direct injection
● Monoblock cylinder design with Plasma coating- delivers high horsepower
● NEW larger injectors
● NEW engine calibration
● Intake booster injectors (850 E-TEC-inspired)
● Shorter intake length (850 E-TEC-inspired)
● Double reed valves (850 E-TEC-inspired)
● eRAVE (850 E-TEC-inspired)
● Lightweight exhaust system (Stainless steel tuned pipe)
● Racing Throttle Block – Ready for 50% throttle applications
● Reinforced engine mounts
● Hot Start Button
Drivetrain
● Brembo Brake System – large diameter rotor, easy maintenance caliper
● pDrive primary clutch
● TEAM TSS-04 secondary clutch
● Slip gear – Better durability, less maintenance
● Lightweight belt guard – better air flow

 

 

 

377919023_801780801952539_5787023349131845405_n.jpg.45ebe9621613410e1e99835e1389d410.jpg

Edited by krom
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45 minutes ago, krom said:

The thing is that under textron, AC has become un-competitive in the marketplace (and sno x).  sales/production numbers have fallen off a cliff.  Snow market share is down below 10%, and isn't going to increase at all until 2025 at the earliest.  Despite the release of the catalyst, AC will be lucky not to lose market share again this year.
5 years ago I would have said it's impossible to fuck up a company as bad as they have done with AC, but here we are.

What they've done to the sales on the snow side is nothing at all compared to what's happened to the dirt side...

CF moto now sells far more units, and has better aftermarket support than AC

Maybe you missed the part where said I don't care about the marketplace.

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27 minutes ago, airflite1 said:

Word on the street, 2025 is when they are hoping for a new SX machine.

it's probably a good thing no one cares about SX... 9_9

18 minutes ago, krom said:
@Crnr2Crnr ski doo, released their snow X machine at haydays
 
LEARN ABOUT THE 2024 MXZX 600RS CHANGES:
The Ski Doo MXZx 600RS E-TEC is incorporating REV Gen5 DNA for 2024 and bringing additional improvements to cement its place on top of the podium.
While the MXZx 600 RS has been the class of the field, resting on laurels isn’t how the BRP Race Team operates, and this year’s snocross racing snowmobile clearly demonstrates that – as did the previously announced MXZ X-RS with Competition Package and Summit Hill Climb Edition that were heavily influenced production-based models.
The newest version of the MXZx 600RS will deliver more performance and durability for top pros and independents alike with key features from the REV Gen5 platform.
The list of improvements doesn’t stop with the platform as it also includes a re-engineered rear suspension and engine updates to take things up another notch.
The REV platform with its open cockpit design and centrally balanced engine provide superior rider ergonomics and handling in rough conditions. The layout delivers agile and responsive behavior to rider input while the Ergo Step side panels and beveled tunnel allow racers the room to attack – without interference from the chassis.
It features the REV Gen5 four-point engine mounting system and improved CVT alignment for more consistent clutch performance plus a stiffer chassis that provides more precise handling and better feedback to the rider. Another Gen5 feature is the quick-change drive axle for easier and faster track changes, making race weekends easier for the pit crews.
The RS specific front S-Module is also reinforced for improved durability and because racing can lead to unexpected events, the ignition coil and RAVE motor have been relocated inboard to protect from impacts.
Changes from last year carryover in the RAS RS front suspension with shorter shock length that maintains the same travel to help lower the center of gravity, and a spring rate that was increased to reduce roll, for better cornering.
The front suspension continues to feature a long spindle design that allows high cornering speeds and a unique power steering system exclusive to the MXZx RS race sled that provides ultra-precise handling with less effort.
The legendary rMotion RS rear suspension has also undergone many engineering updates for improved performance including a refined center arm for improved traction in rough conditions – especially the ice edges and ridges that develop in snocross racing.
The motion ratio of the rear arm is changed with a new linkage that provides a softer initial feel and when combined with the improved coupling it delivers better traction and weight transfer for more control in wicked snocross conditions.
The MXZ RS continues to use bespoke 46 mm KYB Pro Series shocks that have Integral Base Valves with the ability to adjust not only High and Low Speed Compression but also High Speed rebound and calibration has been updated to match the rear suspension geometry changes.
The engine powering the MXZx 600RS E-TEC is as sophisticated as any 2-stroke on earth – except maybe the Rotax 850 E-TEC Turbo R that features water injection, where it draws technology from like booster injectors, a short intake tract with double reeds and digital eRAVE. But that doesn’t mean it’s finicky or high maintenance – it’s actually just the opposite.
By using E-TEC advanced systems, this 600cc high output monster is a hands-off package that compensates for weather and altitude conditions while delivering maximum horsepower at all times without human intervention.
This year the engine uses new larger injectors and further refined calibration that improves reliability and overall performance yet again.
2024 MXZx 600RS HIGHLIGHTS:
NEW REV Gen5 Platform DNA
● Taper/tilt tunnel design
● NEW 4-point engine mounting
● NEW quick change drive axle
● Short heat exchanger with internal loop
● 137″ Track
● Lightweight Lexan Hood
● Quiet, high flow Airbox Design
● LED Lightweight Headlights
● NEW Reinforced S module
● MX inspired seat and hi-traction cover
● Racing foot box
● 5-gallon fuel tank
● Lower center of gravity
● High Air Flow Left Vent
RAS RS Front Suspension
● Kashima coated 46mm KYB Pro Series shocks (High Speed /Low Speed compression and High Speed / Low Speed Rebound adjustments)
● Integral Base Valve Adjuster
● Rack steering with power assist
● Long Spindle design (Stronger + better speed cornering)
● Lightweight Pilot R2 Ski – Reinforced
NEW rMotion RS Rear Suspension
● Race proven rail design, higher front arm mount, new color
● 137″ length
● NEW refined front arm
● NEW motion ratio (softer initial)
● NEW improved coupling
● Kashima coated 46mm KYB Pro Series piggyback center shock w/ High Speed / Low Speed compression and High Speed Rebound adjustment
● Kashima coated 46mm KYB Pro Series piggyback rear shock w/ High Speed / Low Speed compression and High Speed / Low Speed rebound adjustment
● Integral Base Valve Adjuster
● Revised geometry
● Holeshot Device
Rotax 600RS E-TEC Engine (599.4 cc)
● E-TEC direct injection
● Monoblock cylinder design with Plasma coating- delivers high horsepower
● NEW larger injectors
● NEW engine calibration
● Intake booster injectors (850 E-TEC-inspired)
● Shorter intake length (850 E-TEC-inspired)
● Double reed valves (850 E-TEC-inspired)
● eRAVE (850 E-TEC-inspired)
● Lightweight exhaust system (Stainless steel tuned pipe)
● Racing Throttle Block – Ready for 50% throttle applications
● Reinforced engine mounts
● Hot Start Button
Drivetrain
● Brembo Brake System – large diameter rotor, easy maintenance caliper
● pDrive primary clutch
● TEAM TSS-04 secondary clutch
● Slip gear – Better durability, less maintenance
● Lightweight belt guard – better air flow

 

 

 

377919023_801780801952539_5787023349131845405_n.jpg.45ebe9621613410e1e99835e1389d410.jpg

yeah but...

https://www.arcticinsider.com/unveiled-2018-arctic-cat-zr-6000r-sx-snocross-race-sled/?amp=1

 

 

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1 minute ago, krom said:

If anyone cares, the new bottom end (75.6 mm stroke), combined with the current 600 bore (73.8) would give them a 646 (technically 646.78)

So you're saying it's just a matter of time :whistle:

:thumbsup:

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1 hour ago, mnstang said:

Maybe you missed the part where said I don't care about the marketplace.


Back when ac had 25-35% market share, was constantly winning, and developing new product that view was fine.

The guys in charge wanted to win, making money was good too, but they wanted to win, wanted to have the fastest and best handling sleds on the snow.

That is the total opposite of textron.

Right now AC is in a dead spot, they aren't the market leader, or even close to 2nd place.  So they don't have the economies of scale that doo and poo have (much less income from each sled) so they can't afford to do aggressive R&D, or even marketing.

But they aren't small enough to be a high end, high price boutique product (think Koenigsegg)

Textron is not AC, whats left in TRF really isn't AC either.  Its not the die hard do anything to win guys, they all got fired.

There is no race department, Mike is the only one of they who hasn't been fired, and he isn't even in the "race" building anymore.

Without increasing market

Edited by krom
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15 minutes ago, Deephaven said:

Add a little bore and 666 isn't far away

 

13 minutes ago, Bontz said:

The Satanic Cat ... SataniCat :lol:

74.9 mm bore is 666 cc....

74.44 mm bore would be 658

74.3 would give 656

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