here we go...

 

from https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=645480526946814&set=a.282183209943216&type=3&comment_id=3293263380957604&notif_id=1662840248855637&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic&ref=notif

 

https://snowgoer.com/news/cat-unveils-new-catalyst-chassis-for-2024-kind-of/31001/

 

 

how much actual chassis was changed? IDK the RXC looks good though, I dig it.  edit: 137" ?  hmmmm... 

pile on boys, this isn't the brand specific safe space... and don't forget to in on one. 

Edited September 10, 20222 yr by Crnr2Crnr

16 minutes ago, racinfarmer said:

Anyone that buys a 911 and never drives it deserves deth.  I'd much rather see a person out making a 911 their then one that leads a miserable life tucked away and going to the occasional Cars and Coffee.  Lots and lots of low mile 911's are hidden away.

RXC comes with the spendy pads, but the cheaper rotor, not the spendy ones.  They work fine for terrain, for the most part.

BAT is not the place for you then... watched this one RNM recently

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1994-porsche-911-turbo-s-3/

I get that it's special and I've always loved the 964's but guarantee it would have had 3x more miles on it if I owned it. 

the question to me on the big$ rotor would be 'exactly how much better braking performance will be gained'?  I can see the Mira boys and a fully sponsored rider having that... but would even a mid level racer gain an advantage with it?  

something I haven't thought about until right now... do any of the driveshaft mounted brakes have a factory air duct going to the caliper and rotor any longer?  know I haven't looked but in the days gone by all the performance sleds with a jackshaft brake had a duct.  

 

 

Edited February 16, 20241 yr by Crnr2Crnr
SpeLLin

16 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

BAT is not the place for you then... watched this one RNM recently

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1994-porsche-911-turbo-s-3/

I get that it's special and I've always loved the 964's but guarantee it would have had 3x more miles on it if I owned it. 

the question to me on the big$ rotor would be 'exactly how much better braking performance will be gained'?  I can see the Mira boys and a fully sponsored rider having that... but would even a mid level racer gain an advantage with it?  

something I haven't thought about until right now... do any of the driveshaft mounted brakes have a factory air duct going to the caliper and rotor any longer?  know I haven't looked but in the days gone by all the performance sleds with a jackshaft brake had a duct.  

 

 

I'm not paying the BaT tax.

IMO, if you are a competent Sport racer and above, you want that rotor for ice for sure, and even terrain racing.  Even then, you can warp one of those rotors.

5 minutes ago, racinfarmer said:

I'm not paying the BaT tax.

IMO, if you are a competent Sport racer and above, you want that rotor for ice for sure, and even terrain racing.  Even then, you can warp one of those rotors.

ikr, but the primo shit rolls that block with regularity.  gorgeous deep blue speedster crossed the other day, about the same price as our house.  missed my opportunity but still love seeing them.  the RS's are also bringing dumb$

yeah, on ice I'd want the best components possible to claw down from a hundert plus to corner and in certain circumstances on terrain, but for Joe Blow from Kokomo on the trail most imo wouldn't know the difference between the $60 rotor with cheap pads and the $600 rotor with race compound pads. 

it is a bit nutty to spend $600 just for a rotor... but CC has them 'in stock'. 

I saw a picture somewhere recently of a catalyst with two calipers on it.

9 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

ikr, but the primo shit rolls that block with regularity.  gorgeous deep blue speedster crossed the other day, about the same price as our house.  missed my opportunity but still love seeing them.  the RS's are also bringing dumb$

yeah, on ice I'd want the best components possible to claw down from a hundert plus to corner and in certain circumstances on terrain, but for Joe Blow from Kokomo on the trail most imo wouldn't know the difference between the $60 rotor with cheap pads and the $600 rotor with race compound pads. 

it is a bit nutty to spend $600 just for a rotor... but CC has them 'in stock'. 

Just give me a PTS slot on a GT3.

9 minutes ago, racinfarmer said:

Just give me a PTS slot on a GT3.

GT3's are a bargain compared to some of the GT2's of late.

idk wtf is up with that but if you know of one lying dormant for a good price buy it and flip it... and not on the roof

Edited February 16, 20241 yr by Crnr2Crnr

2 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

for the era and money excellent... that said the RXC stops better and with those pads still make the noise.  Polaris brakes on the Cross Country, also a good noise.  pretty certain Raisin Farmer said the CC comes with the good pads as stock.  IDK if they come with the $600 rotor though 

Interesting. My 15 R-XC and pretty much every other Hayes I've had on a sled (or mountain bike) has been: meh. It's also been silent, so in addition to nearly no lever feel, there's no acoustic feedback. You can lock up a track on any system nowadays. There's more to it than that.

Edited February 16, 20241 yr by Premium

7 hours ago, Premium said:

Interesting. My 15 R-XC and pretty much every other Hayes I've had on a sled (or mountain bike) has been: meh. It's also been silent, so in addition to nearly no lever feel, there's no acoustic feedback. You can lock up a track on any system nowadays. There's more to it than that.

which sled do you want 'the noise' from?

may be just as simple as changing the pads and rotor to the RXC setup

https://www.babbittsonline.com/oemparts/a/arc/649b170ec201684a61fa9114/drive-train-shafts-and-brake-assemblies

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/pUEvEKnvSjDLqzNT/?mibextid=jmPrMh

Is this the sound you're looking for @Premium? 

 

https://www.countrycat.com/arctic-cat-3602-017-race-brake-pads-2013-2024-zr-6000-r

foot note on pads... (Excludes 2015 models & 2024 ZR 600 R-XC)

https://www.countrycat.com/arctic-cat-2602-720-hayes-heavy-duty-brake-disc-2012-2024-models

https://www.countrycat.com/arctic-cat-3602-020-hayes-extreme-duty-brake-disc-2012-2024-models

 

what's so different on the 2015 RXC?  seems to be an outlier... 

2602-866 caliper https://www.countrycat.com/arctic-cat-2602-866-caliper-brake-fixed-dual-piston 

and different pads  https://www.countrycat.com/arctic-cat-2602-870-race-brake-pads-2015-zr-6000-r

 

https://www.babbittsonline.com/oemparts/partsearch/arctic_cat_snowmobile?partsearch=3602-014

there tis... 2016 & up are different.  the good news is it seems the Catalyst automatically gets the old 'race' caliper but only the RXC gets the race pads and drilled rotor.

 

 

Edited February 16, 20241 yr by Crnr2Crnr

2 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/pUEvEKnvSjDLqzNT/?mibextid=jmPrMh

Is this the sound you're looking for @Premium? 

 

https://www.countrycat.com/arctic-cat-3602-017-race-brake-pads-2013-2024-zr-6000-r

foot note on pads... (Excludes 2015 models & 2024 ZR 600 R-XC)

https://www.countrycat.com/arctic-cat-2602-720-hayes-heavy-duty-brake-disc-2012-2024-models

https://www.countrycat.com/arctic-cat-3602-020-hayes-extreme-duty-brake-disc-2012-2024-models

 

what's so different on the 2015 RXC?  seems to be an outlier... 

2602-866 caliper https://www.countrycat.com/arctic-cat-2602-866-caliper-brake-fixed-dual-piston 

and different pads  https://www.countrycat.com/arctic-cat-2602-870-race-brake-pads-2015-zr-6000-r

 

https://www.babbittsonline.com/oemparts/partsearch/arctic_cat_snowmobile?partsearch=3602-014

there tis... 2016 & up are different.  the good news is it seems the Catalyst automatically gets the old 'race' caliper but only the RXC gets the race pads and drilled rotor.

 

 

Yeah that's close. Still not as audible as the Wilwoods imo, although it's hard to tell through a video. So at least the Hayes are capable of producing it. On the Polaris sleds the brake system is mounted on the jackshaft like the Wilwoods used to be on the Cats....I wonder how that contributes to feel and sound.

Not sure what's so special about the 2015 R-XC. Maybe Krom has some insight.  The stopping power of my R-XC is significantly better than my turbo, that's for sure. But neither provide much feedback.  Often the R-XC feels like an on/off switch.

 

14 minutes ago, Premium said:

Yeah that's close. Still not as audible as the Wilwoods imo, although it's hard to tell through a video. So at least the Hayes are capable of producing it. On the Polaris sleds the brake system is mounted on the jackshaft like the Wilwoods used to be on the Cats....I wonder how that contributes to feel and sound.

Not sure what's so special about the 2015 R-XC. Maybe Krom has some insight.  The stopping power of my R-XC is significantly better than my turbo, that's for sure. But neither provide much feedback.  Often the R-XC feels like an on/off switch.

 

tbh, I don't know if it's 'better' on the jackshaft or the driveshaft... other than lowering cg.   on the 21 RXC the audible is definitely there... like the SP's with metallic pads.  

Jackshaft speed is alot higher than track shaft.  So I'd think you'd have more precision and modulation with the brake mounted on the jackshaft 

24 minutes ago, mnstang said:

Jackshaft speed is alot higher than track shaft.  So I'd think you'd have more precision and modulation with the brake mounted on the jackshaft 

well... you have an RS, how's it compare to your SP?  

speaking of the RS... weren't you looking to upgrade the pads a while back?

Edited February 16, 20241 yr by Crnr2Crnr

15 minutes ago, mnstang said:

Jackshaft speed is alot higher than track shaft.  So I'd think you'd have more precision and modulation with the brake mounted on the jackshaft 

That was my thought too.

14 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

well... you have an RS, how's it compare to your SP?  

 

Hard for me to say.  I'd tend to say I like the snopro better but it's been so long and I've only rode the RS a couple times.  Having brake noise is huge for me though and I miss that from the snopro.  If the rxc pads are noisy then I might need to get some of those.

one thing that comes to mind... if you break a drive belt or chain the brake on the jackshaft isn't going to do shit... that's if it doesn't lock up the track and skid into an obstacle.  so there's that... 

 

6 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

if you break a drive belt or chain

Bingo!  then what?  fill the shorts

9 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

one thing that comes to mind... if you break a drive belt or chain the brake on the jackshaft isn't going to do shit... that's if it doesn't lock up the track and skid into an obstacle.  so there's that... 

 

Yep.

Towed a buddy once that broke a chain, not even thinking about the fact he no longer had brakes due to his jackshaft mounted caliper. Next thing I know he's passing me on a downhill grade

Fortunately no fallout except for some bent handlebars.

25 minutes ago, Premium said:

Yep.

Towed a buddy once that broke a chain, not even thinking about the fact he no longer had brakes due to his jackshaft mounted caliper. Next thing I know he's passing me on a downhill grade

Fortunately no fallout except for some bent handlebars.

so there's that...

5 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/pUEvEKnvSjDLqzNT/?mibextid=jmPrMh

Is this the sound you're looking for @Premium? 

 

https://www.countrycat.com/arctic-cat-3602-017-race-brake-pads-2013-2024-zr-6000-r

foot note on pads... (Excludes 2015 models & 2024 ZR 600 R-XC)

https://www.countrycat.com/arctic-cat-2602-720-hayes-heavy-duty-brake-disc-2012-2024-models

https://www.countrycat.com/arctic-cat-3602-020-hayes-extreme-duty-brake-disc-2012-2024-models

 

what's so different on the 2015 RXC?  seems to be an outlier... 

2602-866 caliper https://www.countrycat.com/arctic-cat-2602-866-caliper-brake-fixed-dual-piston 

and different pads  https://www.countrycat.com/arctic-cat-2602-870-race-brake-pads-2015-zr-6000-r

 

https://www.babbittsonline.com/oemparts/partsearch/arctic_cat_snowmobile?partsearch=3602-014

there tis... 2016 & up are different.  the good news is it seems the Catalyst automatically gets the old 'race' caliper but only the RXC gets the race pads and drilled rotor.

 

 

2602-866 IS NLA was used on 15 sx/rxc only.

pistons and seals are the same as every other 13 up race sled(the sx and rxc sleds get different pistons than the trail sled) so my bet is they tried something different with the casting to save weight, and it didn't work out.

But if you go back to fall of 14 and look through the press releases for the race sleds, its prob mentioned.  My memory has too much other worthless shit in it to remember that detail

 

Edited February 16, 20241 yr by krom

8 minutes ago, krom said:

2602-866 IS NLA was used on 15 sx/rxc only.

pistons and seals are the same as every other 13 up race sled(the sx and rxc sleds get different pistons than the trail sled) so my bet is they tried something different with the casting to save weight, and it didn't work out.

But if you go back to fall of 14 and look through the press releases for the race sleds, its prob mentioned.  My memory has too much other worthless shit in it to remember that detail

 

the caliper typically comes with pads... and the part # will change for the caliper based upon the pad material... I would think.  didn't look at any other 15's to see what they use. 

 

2602-486 looks to be the standard caliper from 2013-2019 

didn't compare guts though 

Edited February 16, 20241 yr by Crnr2Crnr

3 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

one thing that comes to mind... if you break a drive belt or chain the brake on the jackshaft isn't going to do shit... that's if it doesn't lock up the track and skid into an obstacle.  so there's that... 

 

That doesn't concern me in the least, if it did I probably wouldn't ride.  What if you break a track?  Oh no...

6 minutes ago, mnstang said:

That doesn't concern me in the least, if it did I probably wouldn't ride.  What if you break a track?  Oh no...

I was pointing out an 'advantage' of having the caliper mounted to the driveshaft... that was all.  Premium confirmed it. 

2 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

the caliper typically comes with pads... and the part # will change for the caliper based upon the pad material... I would think.  didn't look at any other 15's to see what they use. 

 

2602-486 looks to be the standard caliper from 2013-2019 

didn't compare guts though 

you win, the pads are one year only.

They are available though 2602-870 MSRP $201.95

'13-14 use 2602-590 which supersede to 3602-017 MSRP $230.95

'16-'24 use 3602-017 MSRP $230.95

so the rxc comes with the same high $$ 'race' brake pads as the sx sled

The high $$ rotor is stock on '14-'24 SX sleds

The catalyst is the first trail sled that uses 1702-475 pads, they were new in '18 and only used on M sleds and a few riots prior to the catalyst (quick glance didn't check every model). MSRP $93.95

The rest of the pro cross sleds from 12-24, along with the blast, touring, and norseman sleds used 1702-245 MSRP $118.95

 

If jimwit wants to check out his next sled AC has published the parts book for the '25 120

Edited February 16, 20241 yr by krom

46 minutes ago, krom said:

you win, the pads are one year only.

They are available though 2602-870 MSRP $201.95

'13-14 use 2602-590 which supersede to 3602-017 MSRP $230.95

'16-'24 use 3602-017 MSRP $230.95

so the rxc comes with the same high $$ 'race' brake pads as the sx sled

The high $$ rotor is stock on '14-'24 SX sleds

The catalyst is the first trail sled that uses 1702-475 pads, they were new in '18 and only used on M sleds and a few riots prior to the catalyst (quick glance didn't check every model). MSRP $93.95

The rest of the pro cross sleds from 12-24, along with the blast, touring, and norseman sleds used 1702-245 MSRP $118.95

 

If jimwit wants to check out his next sled AC has published the parts book for the '25 120

I wasn't trying to win anything.... 

It's mostly ironic that Premium was saying his was a 15 and then it turns out the 15 is the one oddball as far as components compared to all 27 years of the Procross.  what are the odds?