Jerry 976 Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 6 hours ago, MILFMAN said: Sometimes it is a lot harder to drop the anchor without power. Often there is a riding pawl that locks the chain in. In that case it needs to be brought in a touch to release, or with more difficulty and dangerous, needing to be pried out. I found out I have a college classmate that is in charge of the NTSB investigation of this. It won't take long to figure out what happened. There are event recorders in the engine room as well as the bridge. The bridge likely has voice recorders also. Terrible accident. 1 hour ago, Kivalo said: No its not harder. We are required to have the anchor ready for immediate deployment specificaly for such a case of loss of power or control of the vessel. The anchor would be made ready in all respects for freewheeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSFB Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILFMAN Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 hours ago, Kivalo said: No its not harder. We are required to have the anchor ready for immediate deployment specificaly for such a case of loss of power or control of the vessel. The anchor would be made ready in all respects for freewheeling. I haven't worked on ships in 25 years, but what I spoke of was my personal experience on ships internationally, and on tugs and barges in this country, including Baltimore. We did not have anchors ready to drop when maneuvering. Not that it isn't a bad idea though. Either it is a newer requirement since I was a Merchant Marine, or it is a best practice you are doing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member Kivalo Posted March 27 Gold Member Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, MILFMAN said: I haven't worked on ships in 25 years, but what I spoke of was my personal experience on ships internationally, and on tugs and barges in this country, including Baltimore. We did not have anchors ready to drop when maneuvering. Not that it isn't a bad idea though. Either it is a newer requirement since I was a Merchant Marine, or it is a best practice you are doing. Now that you mention it, that might be just for us in fuel delivery. I am fairly certain its for all ships though. I will have to look it up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry 976 Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, Kivalo said: Now that you mention it, that might be just for us in fuel delivery. I am fairly certain its for all ships though. I will have to look it up. Why does my gut tell me they will be making changes all around the US, any cargo ship over X size and X Tonnage will have to have X amount of Tugs along side while navigating with in a certain distance of any bridge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry 976 Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member Kivalo Posted March 27 Gold Member Share Posted March 27 13 minutes ago, Jerry 976 said: Why does my gut tell me they will be making changes all around the US, any cargo ship over X size and X Tonnage will have to have X amount of Tugs along side while navigating with in a certain distance of any bridge. Yeah thats pretty much a given. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILFMAN Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 40 minutes ago, Jerry 976 said: Why does my gut tell me they will be making changes all around the US, any cargo ship over X size and X Tonnage will have to have X amount of Tugs along side while navigating with in a certain distance of any bridge. Sounds like we need to gets into the tug business. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Here’s a question? ”when does a boat become a ship”? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry 976 Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 1 minute ago, Mainecat said: Here’s a question? ”when does a boat become a ship”? When the boat can't fit on a ship....... Use to get yelled at for calling a ship a boat........ a boat goes on a ship and we use to always say well this boat will fit on a ship.. The USS Stark placed on a sea going floating dry dock after being hit with a Missile in the Persian gulf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Has trump been indicted for this yet? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member Kivalo Posted March 28 Gold Member Share Posted March 28 8 hours ago, Jerry 976 said: When the boat can't fit on a ship....... Use to get yelled at for calling a ship a boat........ a boat goes on a ship and we use to always say well this boat will fit on a ship.. The USS Stark placed on a sea going floating dry dock after being hit with a Missile in the Persian gulf This is correct. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILFMAN Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 12 hours ago, Mainecat said: Here’s a question? ”when does a boat become a ship”? Great question. It seems the definition has changed over the years. I had to google and not even sure if that is correct. When it surpasses 500 tons of displacement or greater than 197 feet long. There are ships that certainly will fit on other ships now.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry 976 Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 They recovered 2 of the workers who were on the bridge when it went down, the other 4 workers were located but can not be recovered at this time because of how and where they are located in the debris from the bridge and road surface........ R.I.P.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 13 hours ago, Mainecat said: Here’s a question? ”when does a boat become a ship”? The better question is when does it become a yacht? Asking for a friend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry 976 Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 (edited) https://vanislemarina.com/news-blog/when-is-a-boat-a-yacht/ https://crosschartering.com/how-big-is-a-yacht-the-different-yacht-sizes/ Edited March 28 by Jerry 976 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 @Kivalo his does this sound Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted March 28 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 28 Reality is this shouldn't even be capable of happening. This is going to cost billions and billions and could have been easily avoided with some common sense steps put in place prior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 1 minute ago, Highmark said: Reality is this shouldn't even be capable of happening. This is going to cost billions and billions and could have been easily avoided with some common sense steps put in place prior. Absolutely, but lots of those common sense steps are expensive. Hindsight is always 20/20, but foresight is driven by money. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member Kivalo Posted March 28 Gold Member Share Posted March 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, NaturallyAspirated said: @Kivalo his does this sound Neal It sounds quite plausable to me. Pretty much all comercial vessels have multiple power sources and it makes sense that a ship that size would have 4 or 5. I was talking with my captain about just that this morning at watch handover. It'll be interesting to see what caused this power outage. The only thing I would add to the Chief's assesment is when you go hard astern on on a single screw you will introduce signifigant yaw into the equation. Actually with a single screw there is always yaw whenever there is throttle input. This yaw is definitely pronounced enough to turn the vessel, as it appears it did. In my opinion, other than the rudder, this had the most impact on the vessel's heading. JMO though. Edit: if it had a variable pitch prop that yaw wouldnt be as bad and possibly even counter act the thruster. Too many unknown to say with any certainty yet. Edited March 28 by Kivalo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member Kivalo Posted March 28 Gold Member Share Posted March 28 1 hour ago, Highmark said: Reality is this shouldn't even be capable of happening. This is going to cost billions and billions and could have been easily avoided with some common sense steps put in place prior. The NTSB and USCG will almost certainly recomend that escort tugs be with ships until well clear of any hazzards. Also I bet the port inspections of forign ships will be increased as well. Depending on what specifically caused the dark ship situation, there will likely be some changes to the mechanical/electrical systems as well. Sadly many of these changes will seem to be obvious from the get go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry 976 Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 3 hours ago, Kivalo said: It sounds quite plausable to me. Pretty much all comercial vessels have multiple power sources and it makes sense that a ship that size would have 4 or 5. I was talking with my captain about just that this morning at watch handover. It'll be interesting to see what caused this power outage. The only thing I would add to the Chief's assesment is when you go hard astern on on a single screw you will introduce signifigant yaw into the equation. Actually with a single screw there is always yaw whenever there is throttle input. This yaw is definitely pronounced enough to turn the vessel, as it appears it did. In my opinion, other than the rudder, this had the most impact on the vessel's heading. JMO though. Edit: if it had a variable pitch prop that yaw wouldnt be as bad and possibly even counter act the thruster. Too many unknown to say with any certainty yet. I forget what it was for variable pitch propellers, something like from full speed ahead (30 knots) to full stop i want to say it was suppose to be somewhere around 2 1/2 times the length of the ship to come to a full stop..... Shakes like a MoFo in the stopping process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not greg b Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 Current situation here. I guess it is taking on water now. I should go see how many ships are stacked up in the bay out front. My mom said there is one anchored in front the house. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member Kivalo Posted March 28 Gold Member Share Posted March 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jerry 976 said: I forget what it was for variable pitch propellers, something like from full speed ahead (30 knots) to full stop i want to say it was suppose to be somewhere around 2 1/2 times the length of the ship to come to a full stop..... Shakes like a MoFo in the stopping process. Ive never sailed eith anything but a fixed wheel so I would t know from expirence but I have heard they(cpp) are nice. I just looked up the Dali's Wikipage and according to that she has a fixed pitch wheel. She also has 4 gensets for power and 3,000hp bow thruster. Edited March 28 by Kivalo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member Kivalo Posted March 28 Gold Member Share Posted March 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jerry 976 said: I forget what it was for variable pitch propellers, something like from full speed ahead (30 knots) to full stop i want to say it was suppose to be somewhere around 2 1/2 times the length of the ship to come to a full stop..... Shakes like a MoFo in the stopping process. Most boats do crash stop testing or at least the marine architects calculate it. I wonder what the Dali's distance was for various displacements if she was tested? Edited March 28 by Kivalo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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