23/24 Cross Country thread

[Crnr2Crnr]

12 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

Is there? I only follow the Pro class mostly. Most already have said ski's on the shelves btw. 

scroll back up and run down his list of components

what do you think adding DSCs to QS3 shocks runs, or a Larson 4 wheel axle, etc?  

in fairness before Polaris brought out their Cross Country Racer one had to make all the same changes to an XCR to race it.  now it seems they've just put on all the components they used to suggest. 

2020 600 Indy XCR Cross Country Factory 600 Terrain Racing ... https://cdn1.polaris.com/globalassets/snow/root/team-polaris/racer-resources/cross-contry/setup-information/2020-600-indy-xcr-cross-country-terrain-racing-set-up-sheet.pdf?v=75e16129

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Crnr2Crnr

[ZR6000RR]

24 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

scroll back up and run down his list of components

what do you think adding DSCs to QS3 shocks runs, or a Larson 4 wheel axle, etc?  

in fairness before Polaris brought out their Cross Country Racer one had to make all the same changes to an XCR to race it.  now it seems they've just put on all the components they used to suggest. 

2020 600 Indy XCR Cross Country Factory 600 Terrain Racing ... https://cdn1.polaris.com/globalassets/snow/root/team-polaris/racer-resources/cross-contry/setup-information/2020-600-indy-xcr-cross-country-terrain-racing-set-up-sheet.pdf?v=75e16129

 

The RXC comes with a 4 wheel axle with solid wheels. Shocks are like they were before minus the coating. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by ZR6000RR

[krom]

37 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

scroll back up and run down his list of components

what do you think adding DSCs to QS3 shocks runs, or a Larson 4 wheel axle, etc?  

in fairness before Polaris brought out their Cross Country Racer one had to make all the same changes to an XCR to race it.  now it seems they've just put on all the components they used to suggest. 

2020 600 Indy XCR Cross Country Factory 600 Terrain Racing ... https://cdn1.polaris.com/globalassets/snow/root/team-polaris/racer-resources/cross-contry/setup-information/2020-600-indy-xcr-cross-country-terrain-racing-set-up-sheet.pdf?v=75e16129

 

DSC used to be around $100 ea plus oil and nitrogen, haven't priced them in 2 years

[Crnr2Crnr]

38 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

The RXC comes with a 4 wheel axle with solid wheels. Shocks are like they were before minus the coating. 

do you know what DSC's are?  they aren't the three position adjusters that come stock.  has nothing to do with coating. 

23 minutes ago, krom said:

DSC used to be around $100 ea plus oil and nitrogen, haven't priced them in 2 years

they've gone up considerably... on the retail side. 

https://www.hygearsuspension.com/products/fox-dsc-adjuster

one would think the actual team sleds would just come with them automatically.  do wonder how many components will actually need to get changed over on the new (available to retail buyers) Catalyst RXC's to make them 'race ready'.  

[ZR6000RR]

7 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

do you know what DSC's are?  they aren't the three position adjusters that come stock.  has nothing to do with coating. 

 

Point is this is the  same set up from years past. Exactly the same minus the coating. 

[fortune46x]

11 hours ago, racinfarmer said:

 

Brief rundown of what I found that Cat falls short on (inc. upgrade prices):

-C&A skis right out of the box.  ($300-350 inc carbides)

-A useable 4 wheel rear axle ($300-400)

-Vespel hyfax ($125)

-Eccentric limiter strap shaft (not offered on a Cat)

-A useable windshield ($100-125)

-Racing pads and rotor ($400+?)

-Race shocks WITH DSC, larger shock shafts and larger shock bodies ($220+/shock)

C&A's unless you have a discount at about 586 with carbides ... I just ordered a set this week.

Lets not forget the upper plastic frame spar joint that needs to be replaced for terrain racing.

10 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

Yet who wins?

in the pro class, the guy that builds the sled from a chassis and is no where near production level.

1 hour ago, ZR6000RR said:

The RXC comes with a 4 wheel axle with solid wheels. Shocks are like they were before minus the coating. 

The 4 wheel axle is ok , the wheels are not , solid plastic with no rubber does not last . the shocks ran on the xc sleds are not production that you find on your dealers show room floor.

[Crnr2Crnr]

34 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

Point is this is the  same set up from years past. Exactly the same minus the coating. 

do you think Herf, Brown or Ben run on position 1/2/3 ? 

want to bet that their shocks are kashima coated? 

it's guys like raisin farmer and everyone else who buys retail that won't kashima coating out of the box... or DSC as found on Polaris or BRP racers.  heck, even the older XCR'S came with DSC

Edited November 22, 2023 by Crnr2Crnr

[Crnr2Crnr]

7 minutes ago, fortune46x said:

C&A's unless you have a discount at about 586 with carbides ... I just ordered a set this week.

Lets not forget the upper plastic frame spar joint that needs to be replaced for terrain racing.

in the pro class, the guy that builds the sled from a chassis and is no where near production level.

The 4 wheel axle is ok , the wheels are not , solid plastic with no rubber does not last . the shocks ran on the xc sleds are not production that you find on your dealers show room floor.

there's at least one if not two cheap shit plastic wheels I need to replace on my brother's rig, looks like something caused by the previous owners incompetence.   

 

on the shocks, you need to realize some folks are on setting #1

 

 

[krom]

2 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

they've gone up considerably... on the retail side. 

https://www.hygearsuspension.com/products/fox-dsc-adjuster

one would think the actual team sleds would just come with them automatically.  do wonder how many components will actually need to get changed over on the new (available to retail buyers) Catalyst RXC's to make them 'race ready'.  

Ouch, almost double

1 hour ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

do you think Herf, Brown or Ben run on position 1/2/3 ? 

want to bet that their shocks are kashima coated? 

it's guys like raisin farmer and everyone else who buys retail that won't kashima coating out of the box... or DSC as found on Polaris or BRP racers.  heck, even the older XCR'S came with DSC

AC had to go to 1,2,3 because too many jimwits who don't have the slightest idea what the "clickers" do are buying the rr and rxc

Edited November 22, 2023 by krom

[Crnr2Crnr]

26 minutes ago, krom said:

Ouch, almost double

AC had to go to 1,2,3 because too many jimwits who don't have the slightest idea what the "clickers" do are buying the rr and rxc

even guessing at wholesale prices that's $600 worth the adjusters... that imo should come stock on the actual team sleds.  agree though that for retail, three settings is adequate.  I'd have to look again but I believe some of the Doo's have a 3 setting KYB and Polaris has Fox QS3's on certain trail models.  that will likely end with their acquisition of Walker Evans.  

in the JJ video they do a nice job going over the shocks.  never did quite understand the mid mount resi theory on the older ones, obviously it didn't work as well as the traditional configuration. 

the Poo looks to be a well set up rig out of the box

Edited November 22, 2023 by Crnr2Crnr

[AK440]

All Walker Evan shocks are garbage products. The Polaris comes with junk shocks that need to be replaced for pro level racing. 

[Cat45]

18 hours ago, racinfarmer said:

 

Brief rundown of what I found that Cat falls short on (inc. upgrade prices):

-C&A skis right out of the box.  ($300-350 inc carbides)

-A useable 4 wheel rear axle ($300-400)

-Vespel hyfax ($125)

-Eccentric limiter strap shaft (not offered on a Cat)

-A useable windshield ($100-125)

-Racing pads and rotor ($400+?)

-Race shocks WITH DSC, larger shock shafts and larger shock bodies ($220+/shock)

You mean you don't run atac and just crank them up to 3 on the road approaches?

[Bontz]

1 hour ago, AK440 said:

All Walker Evan shocks are garbage products. The Polaris comes with junk shocks that need to be replaced for pro level racing. 

Could be worse ... you know, like owning a Nytro

[racinfarmer]

11 hours ago, AK440 said:

Huh. What is new or different from what they offered 2 years ago? Cat has a brand new fricking sled. Not a warmed over Axys with different body work. 

On the Polaris, not a clue.

On the Cat RXC's, 2019, 2021, 2022, and 2023, what changed?  Other then graphics?  There is one minor change.

10 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

Is there? I only follow the Pro class mostly. Most already have said ski's on the shelves btw. 

Guess who is dominating the lower classes.  It isn't Cat, and those are your future Pro racers.

Skis on shelves don't mean squat, still have to buy them.  

10 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

The RXC comes with a 4 wheel axle with solid wheels. Shocks are like they were before minus the coating. 

The 2018 4 wheel axle was a POS.  Lots of racers wrecked shit pre-season with that setup.  The 19+ is better, but everyone still changes them out for a LRP rear axle.  

10 hours ago, krom said:

DSC used to be around $100 ea plus oil and nitrogen, haven't priced them in 2 years

I think they were $219/each when I priced them last year for the 2022. 

9 hours ago, fortune46x said:

C&A's unless you have a discount at about 586 with carbides ... I just ordered a set this week.

Lets not forget the upper plastic frame spar joint that needs to be replaced for terrain racing.

in the pro class, the guy that builds the sled from a chassis and is no where near production level.

The 4 wheel axle is ok , the wheels are not , solid plastic with no rubber does not last . the shocks ran on the xc sleds are not production that you find on your dealers show room floor.

I've paid as little as $200 for RZ's with mounts but no carbides.  I'm roughing numbers in at 30-50% off, which is a fairly standard racer discount.

There is a re-enforcement kit for the Polaris sleds to add on to them to prevent tunnel/frame cracking.  I'm going to guess you'll see something similar for the Catalyst too.  

2 hours ago, AK440 said:

All Walker Evan shocks are garbage products. The Polaris comes with junk shocks that need to be replaced for pro level racing. 

Not sure who make the Velocity shocks on their XC sleds, but I don't know anyone in Pro or Semi-Pro that runs another shock on their Polaris.

1 hour ago, Cat45 said:

You mean you don't run atac and just crank them up to 3 on the road approaches?

That is why I'm not winning?  I can't believe I'm finding this shit out now!

Edited November 23, 2023 by racinfarmer

[Crnr2Crnr]

22 hours ago, fortune46x said:

 

The 4 wheel axle is ok , the wheels are not , solid plastic with no rubber does not last.

 

13 hours ago, racinfarmer said:

 

The 2018 4 wheel axle was a POS.  Lots of racers wrecked shit pre-season with that setup.  The 19+ is better, but everyone still changes them out for a LRP rear axle.  

 

 

So, Upgrade the wheels or just do a full Larson kit and never worry about it again?    No A, we're not putting TKI's on it. 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Crnr2Crnr

[fortune46x]

On 11/22/2023 at 3:57 PM, AK440 said:

All Walker Evan shocks are garbage products. The Polaris comes with junk shocks that need to be replaced for pro level racing. 

Except they’re supported by Polaris at a factory level they have multiple people setting them up for people at the races from kids to pros … Kyb does some for skidoo racers and Fox works for very few teams so???

On 11/23/2023 at 6:59 AM, Crnr2Crnr said:

 

 

So, Upgrade the wheels or just do a full Larson kit and never worry about it again?    No A, we're not putting TKI's on it. 

 

 

 

I have one order for tki in, a second going in this weak for both sleds. 

[Crnr2Crnr]

13 minutes ago, fortune46x said:

Except they’re supported by Polaris at a factory level they have multiple people setting them up for people at the races from kids to pros … Kyb does some for skidoo racers and Fox works for very few teams so???

I have one order for tki in, a second going in this weak for both sleds. 

$370 for the Larson kit atm.

I'll probably just order some rubber wheels from Wahl as I'm doubtful the factory axle is the weak point.

[Crnr2Crnr]

thinking back, @kromand @favoritos didn't you guys figure out here or on A/Chat which rubber wheels fit to replace the cheap plastic garbage dumpster wheels TextronCat sends out the door?  

 

 

[krom]

Other than turning into octagons I haven't seen any rear failures of the newest style ac rear wheels, and we've sold very few of them over the counter.  I do recommend adding a 4th wheel for the guys I know who ride hard, but its stupid cheap to do using factory parts.

The smaller idlers in the rest of the skid frame are another story, pretty common for them to hit the eject button on the trail

[Crnr2Crnr]

26 minutes ago, krom said:

Other than turning into octagons I haven't seen any rear failures of the newest style ac rear wheels, and we've sold very few of them over the counter.  I do recommend adding a 4th wheel for the guys I know who ride hard, but its stupid cheap to do using factory parts.

The smaller idlers in the rest of the skid frame are another story, pretty common for them to hit the eject button on the trail

yeah, there's at least one rear starting to egg, probably from a couple not quite tight studs I found and corrected.  that sled is in storage ATM and hour away so I can't tinker with it or get measurements.  the rubber inboard rears on both my 10's are original and showing no signs of wear.  

 

[favoritos]

@Crnr2Crnr, It's funny that you mention the wheels.  I'm not sure what direction I'm headed with the Catalyst sleds.  I have not had time to look at the parts diagrams.  

The standard skids looked like they may ship with the previous version of octagoners.  The RXC proto sleds looked like better wheels along the rails.  If they are using the octagoners, I'll put in better wheels.  If they ship with the old stock PPD wheels, I might just run em.  Those are good enough and they are cheap.  I usually swap in better bearings.  The Soucy wheels are super durable and have half a dozen sitting.  I don't know if I need something that durable.  They add rolling weight and the stock bearings are so so.  With good bearings, the wheels are pretty dang good, but it takes some coin.

I have a spare Larson kit for the rear.  I'll put that on one sled just because.  The tensioner setup is easier and more durable than stock. I like the more durable wheels.  The bearings are maybe a little better, (I swap in better bearings on the first replacement).

Overall, I don't have a concrete plan with what I'm doing.  I like to run the sleds and see what breaks. 

[Not greg b]

3 hours ago, favoritos said:

@Crnr2Crnr, It's funny that you mention the wheels.  I'm not sure what direction I'm headed with the Catalyst sleds.  I have not had time to look at the parts diagrams.  

The standard skids looked like they may ship with the previous version of octagoners.  The RXC proto sleds looked like better wheels along the rails.  If they are using the octagoners, I'll put in better wheels.  If they ship with the old stock PPD wheels, I might just run em.  Those are good enough and they are cheap.  I usually swap in better bearings.  The Soucy wheels are super durable and have half a dozen sitting.  I don't know if I need something that durable.  They add rolling weight and the stock bearings are so so.  With good bearings, the wheels are pretty dang good, but it takes some coin.

I have a spare Larson kit for the rear.  I'll put that on one sled just because.  The tensioner setup is easier and more durable than stock. I like the more durable wheels.  The bearings are maybe a little better, (I swap in better bearings on the first replacement).

Overall, I don't have a concrete plan with what I'm doing.  I like to run the sleds and see what breaks. 

I talked to Todd over at Jt and he believes they are using the same axel set ups as last years procross. He thinks the older kits should bolt up. Not sure on the newer xc stuff as mine had the older design using the giant the axel nuts non race owners couldn’t figure out how to use. Not sure if they changed that set up on the procross based xc or the catalyst 

[Not greg b]

4 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

yeah, there's at least one rear starting to egg, probably from a couple not quite tight studs I found and corrected.  that sled is in storage ATM and hour away so I can't tinker with it or get measurements.  the rubber inboard rears on both my 10's are original and showing no signs of wear.  

 

Mine octogoned pre studs on the Merrill special. 

[AK440]

8 hours ago, fortune46x said:

Except they’re supported by Polaris at a factory level they have multiple people setting them up for people at the races from kids to pros … Kyb does some for skidoo racers and Fox works for very few teams so???

I have one order for tki in, a second going in this weak for both sleds. 

The Iron Doggers don’t like the WE shocks, especially the mid reservoir style Polaris just dropped. Even when the XCR converted over to the traditional tunnel the top teams used older style WE shocks  to avoid the mid mount style. Other racers will have Ohlins built for their sleds. 
 

Elka shocks have been tried and failed to survive the race. Fox shocks do pretty well and the KYB’s have been very reliable. 

[racinfarmer]

Pine Lake moved back to New Years weekend.