Crnr2Crnr Posted April 29 Author Share Posted April 29 put the brake back on the jackshaft where it belongs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 9 hours ago, Premium said: Yes, disassemble your brand new $20k sled to apply loctite to a critical component. It might work. If it were that easy there are 2 scenarios: Cat could do it (apply green loctite) at the factory and has elected not to....FAIL Cat doesn't acknowledge the core problem at all due to cost/assembly logistics/etc....FAIL In reality I probably won't even do the loctite haha. This is one of those issues that a few people on the internet like to freak out over but in the real world it's not a big deal. 99% of people don't do anything for this "issue" and never have a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 9 hours ago, Premium said: Yes, disassemble your brand new $20k sled to apply loctite to a critical component. It might work. If it were that easy there are 2 scenarios: Cat could do it (apply green loctite) at the factory and has elected not to....FAIL Cat doesn't acknowledge the core problem at all due to cost/assembly logistics/etc....FAIL In reality I probably won't even do the loctite haha. This is one of those issues that a few people on the internet like to freak out over but in the real world it's not a big deal. 99% of people don't do anything for this "issue" and never have a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 9 hours ago, Premium said: Yes, disassemble your brand new $20k sled to apply loctite to a critical component. It might work. If it were that easy there are 2 scenarios: Cat could do it (apply green loctite) at the factory and has elected not to....FAIL Cat doesn't acknowledge the core problem at all due to cost/assembly logistics/etc....FAIL In reality I probably won't even do the loctite haha. This is one of those issues that a few people on the internet like to freak out over but in the real world it's not a big deal. 99% of people don't do anything for this "issue" and never have a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 3 times the green goggles...you've got it bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonlafon1 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 11 hours ago, mnstang said: I think a little green loctite on the shaft and should be good to go. Does nothing. The slip fit eventually slips and eats lock tight. Terrible design and been that way since 2012. Total garbage 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palu49 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 5 hours ago, mnstang said: In reality I probably won't even do the loctite haha. This is one of those issues that a few people on the internet like to freak out over but in the real world it's not a big deal. 99% of people don't do anything for this "issue" and never have a problem. 5 hours ago, Deephaven said: 3 times the green goggles...you've got it bad While I’ll normally get in stupid arguments with mnstang on green goggler issues I’m with him on this. The Yamaha guys really started this issue because a 1 in 1000 issue drives those dorks into a frenzy. Have I seen a bunch of them that are absolutely smoked? Yes. Have I seen a bunch of sleds with well over 5k miles and the original shaft is completely fine? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awful knawful Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 5 hours ago, mnstang said: In reality I probably won't even do the loctite haha. This is one of those issues that a few people on the internet like to freak out over but in the real world it's not a big deal. 99% of people don't do anything for this "issue" and never have a problem. If you do 1000 miles a year or less, ya. Put 5/6000 a year and see. It's a piss poor design that should have been fixed 10 years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonlafon1 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 53 minutes ago, awful knawful said: If you do 1000 miles a year or less, ya. Put 5/6000 a year and see. It's a piss poor design that should have been fixed 10 years ago. Been through this and had a failure at 7K the fucking ball bearing came right out of the bearing. Felt a major pulse on the break . Pulled over and bearing under brake. Shut it down and towed. Seen a 8000 with 120 miles on it completely worn shaft toast. The fit was so bad it would never make 1000 miles. ALSO seen some with 5-10K with no issues. The ones with no issue rust to the shaft usually. What happens is the bearing is neglected and then it sits and water and dirt get past the cheap ass seal. Then when the sleds put back into action the bearing spins on the shaft because its got rust and crude inside. IF you service this bearing EVRY year your fine. maybe. Works best to just split the brake, especially if you have one that's rusted on or has a tighter fit. Pop seal clean out and re grease with a LOW TEMP grease. Seen this go both ways and the best is if you can catch them early or start with a fix when new. Once they start slipping it just goes to shit pretty quick. They eventually will fail that bearing. Rust is your friend on this fit. Service the bearing yearly your fine. Most/ average guys are not going to split the brake or remove and service this bearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 2 hours ago, Palu49 said: While I’ll normally get in stupid arguments with mnstang on green goggler issues I’m with him on this. The Yamaha guys really started this issue because a 1 in 1000 issue drives those dorks into a frenzy. Have I seen a bunch of them that are absolutely smoked? Yes. Have I seen a bunch of sleds with well over 5k miles and the original shaft is completely fine? Yes. It isn't 1 in 1000 though. I've gone through several shafts on multiple sleds...it's just not something that should be happening. Bearings are wear items shafts are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krom Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 Weird thing is that it wasn't an issue that I ever saw on machines built before 17 Rotor a little loose on the splines is fine, and doesn't cause an issue, its the shaft being eaten by the bearing that is. Shitty thing is it takes the rotor out when it happens As for why it hasn't been fixed, I'm sure jimwit knows 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palu49 Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 8 hours ago, jonlafon1 said: Been through this and had a failure at 7K the fucking ball bearing came right out of the bearing. Felt a major pulse on the break . Pulled over and bearing under brake. Shut it down and towed. Seen a 8000 with 120 miles on it completely worn shaft toast. The fit was so bad it would never make 1000 miles. ALSO seen some with 5-10K with no issues. The ones with no issue rust to the shaft usually. What happens is the bearing is neglected and then it sits and water and dirt get past the cheap ass seal. Then when the sleds put back into action the bearing spins on the shaft because its got rust and crude inside. IF you service this bearing EVRY year your fine. maybe. Works best to just split the brake, especially if you have one that's rusted on or has a tighter fit. Pop seal clean out and re grease with a LOW TEMP grease. Seen this go both ways and the best is if you can catch them early or start with a fix when new. Once they start slipping it just goes to shit pretty quick. They eventually will fail that bearing. Rust is your friend on this fit. Service the bearing yearly your fine. Most/ average guys are not going to split the brake or remove and service this bearing. I see it on a lot of really clean sleds and roached sleds. I think a lot of lower mileage sleds you see it on get water pushed in there when pressure washing. I also think that’s a common thing with stuck roller bearings in the clutch. 7 hours ago, Premium said: It isn't 1 in 1000 though. I've gone through several shafts on multiple sleds...it's just not something that should be happening. Bearings are wear items shafts are not. Change the bearing before it locks up and spins on the shaft then 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 6 hours ago, Palu49 said: Change the bearing before it locks up and spins on the shaft then That bearing either gets changed seasonally or get serviced in the way that jonlafon described. The tolerance is so poor the wear happens extremely quickly and even a new free spinning bearing makes little difference to shaft longevity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonlafon1 Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 (edited) 2 hours ago, Premium said: That bearing either gets changed seasonally or get serviced in the way that jonlafon described. The tolerance is so poor the wear happens extremely quickly and even a new free spinning bearing makes little difference to shaft longevity. The key IMO is getting them early BEFORE they start spinning. Especially the shitty ones that have a really loose fit to start right from factory. Many are decent and you get away with doing nothing, but the bad ones from zero miles are going to fail if not services. Even then they just keep wearing the inner race of the bearing. Love or hate the 2 fixes that Barn of Parts offers >they do work especially if you start from zero miles with the shaft savers. Precision offers a nice fix for the shaft issue also. When installing the shaft savers you MUST normalize the bearing to the shaft. Small short torques with a torque wrench while spinning the track in between torques. Have personally seen brake caliper wobble from not normalizing/seating bearing onto shaft as your installing shaft saver. I like to split the brake caliper and leave the inner half on shaft with shaft saver installed. Then carefully pull seal on bearing and spray out with brake cleaner and re grease, install brake outer half and bleed the brake. Done. IF you run a banjo string tight track it does help and even prevent bearing from slipping on shaft some. Its not going to cure the really shitty fitted ones from new though. If you pull the brake rotor off(after splitting brake) and check the inside that seats against the bearing it will have a deep groove worn right into the metal on ones that have been slipping for many miles. Seen it so bad that the brake rotor is very hard to get off. Want to add the stock bearing is not terrible. The seal is the issue on this bearing. Its a shitty seal IMO. KOYO is my go to for a bearing on the shaft. MUCH better seal IMO PICTURE This groove/wear on the inside of rotor is dead give away your bearing is spinning on the shaft. Edited April 30 by jonlafon1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted April 30 Author Share Posted April 30 why undersized non sealed conyeror belt driveline bearings are utilized on snowmobiles to this day is just beyond me... a properly sized and caged sealed bearing should last the lifetime of a sled, without ever thinking about it once. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palu49 Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 On 4/29/2024 at 7:12 AM, Crnr2Crnr said: put the brake back on the jackshaft where it belongs Can’t do that with these hoopty ass belts ready to blow at any minute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not greg b Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Palu49 said: Can’t do that with these hoopty ass belts ready to blow at any minute They should switch to bicycle chain/sprokets in stead of a belt Edited May 1 by Not greg b 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palu49 Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 9 hours ago, Not greg b said: They should switch to bicycle chain/sprokets in stead of a belt Textron sold off huffy a few years back or they’d make it happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not greg b Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 2 hours ago, Palu49 said: Textron sold off huffy a few years back or they’d make it happen I have a 15 year old Walmart huffy. It doesn’t spin shafts in the bearings 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palu49 Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 1 hour ago, Not greg b said: I have a 15 year old Walmart huffy. It doesn’t spin shafts in the bearings You don’t have the kind of power in your legs that the newly redesigned 600 ctec does and you sure as hell don’t have factory vforce reeds! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not greg b Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 7 hours ago, Palu49 said: You don’t have the kind of power in your legs that the newly redesigned 600 ctec does and you sure as hell don’t have factory vforce reeds! I put a card in the spokes. Thing is sick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted May 2 Author Share Posted May 2 On 4/30/2024 at 8:04 PM, Palu49 said: Can’t do that with these hoopty ass belts ready to blow at any minute you can keep the belt drive as well. what a gimmick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 On 5/2/2024 at 5:08 AM, Crnr2Crnr said: you can keep the belt drive as well. what a gimmick. It's nice, very simple, lighter weight, no maintenance, easier service it and the drive line. Servicing the procross chain case is a pain in the ass, you can keep all of that for yourself. No downside to the belt drive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted May 6 Author Share Posted May 6 1 hour ago, mnstang said: It's nice, very simple, lighter weight, no maintenance, easier service it and the drive line. Servicing the procross chain case is a pain in the ass, you can keep all of that for yourself. No downside to the belt drive. fix kits are already in development Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 8 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said: fix kits are already in development For what? I didn't hear of any belt issues last year? It's at least as durable as your previous procross chain case abomination. And I'd say more durable just because there's no pos tensioner. And again, lighter, simpler, easier access of service. No downsides I see to belt drive except maybe if you're a big time freedom sledder tuna there aren't gearing options yet to chase your tenths of a mph on your 600 across the lake. Oh no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.