All,

As in the previous FS I am willing to lend my expertise like any others on this forum.  I will attempt to answer any and all relevant question you have regarding sleds, ATVs and general enforcement.  Be aware..this is not official OPP communication nor is it legal advice.  Its simply my opinion based on experience as a police officer.  For those unaware I've spent the past 10yrs working in the Snowmobile ATV Vessel Enforcement team (SAVE) and have built up a lot of experience, met many of the original members and I think we all had benefitted from the questions shared on here.  Hopefully the mods will pin this thread.  All I ask is that this thread not turn into a police bashing thread...  If that happens I will not be able to continue.  Feel free to bash away, just not in this thread please. 

 

Sean

I'm thinking this warrants it's own thread? 

What personal info of yours was posted?  All we saw was a grainy photo of you stoned, and that was out on the internet.  Why so concerned about hiding behind your keyboard?  Oh right, because someone might read your posts in the Doug Ford thread tonight regarding police officers being overpaid, anyone can do the job for less, etc. As well as you calling people names from your cozy confines. 

 

1 hour ago, 1trailmaker said:

not going to get into it as everyone knows where my info came from so I am not going to drag a member here and his buddies over the coals.

running a site and being a moderator gives you much information,  honorable people keep it to themselves.    Douche bags don't

I have more class then all of them do 

 

You are welcome to keep joining their circle jerk when you post about this tonight 

 

Sorry Sean 

Edited January 30, 20187 yr by Puzzleboy

Indeed. 

1 hour ago, odot1 said:

I'm thinking this warrants it's own thread? 

14 hours ago, 02sled said:

got a link to an example...

I do. Not going there tho. 

 

Edited January 30, 20187 yr by Algonquin Rider

Here's an inevitable snowbike question @odot1

 

What laws would a blue plated/insured snowbike break,  if observed driving on the shoulder of a road?

Thanks,

43 minutes ago, dirtybeacher said:

Here's an inevitable snowbike question @odot1

 

What laws would a blue plated/insured snowbike break,  if observed driving on the shoulder of a road?

Thanks,

All of them!!   :D. Seriously though good question.   I assume with the blue plate it was regidtered as a regular "street bike" and this is a conversion kit?  In that case its been heavily modified from the original manufacturers product so there MAY be issues regarding that.  And as an actual registered vehicle you are not to travel on the shoulder except in exveptional circumstances.  Having said that, off the top of my head I really can't think of any specific laws. I'll bounce of my colleagues and get some feedback.  

19 minutes ago, odot1 said:

All of them!!   :D. Seriously though good question.   I assume with the blue plate it was regidtered as a regular "street bike" and this is a conversion kit?  In that case its been heavily modified from the original manufacturers product so there MAY be issues regarding that.  And as an actual registered vehicle you are not to travel on the shoulder except in exveptional circumstances.  Having said that, off the top of my head I really can't think of any specific laws. I'll bounce of my colleagues and get some feedback.  

Haha, Yes, blue plate street bike, conversion kit.   Ktm 500 exc for example. 

I think a huge amount of kits were sold, and are being ridden this year in Ontario.  I predict a biker will be in the headlines soon.  Hope it's not me.  Haha

On 05/02/2018 at 4:16 PM, dirtybeacher said:

Haha, Yes, blue plate street bike, conversion kit.   Ktm 500 exc for example. 

I think a huge amount of kits were sold, and are being ridden this year in Ontario.  I predict a biker will be in the headlines soon.  Hope it's not me.  Haha

I am curious as to what Sean's take will be on this one.

When trailering with a enclosed whether it be a clam shell style or more along the lines of a cargo unit what is the law on securing your sleds and gas can,s tow behind sleds etc in particular the sled itself.Joe  

16 minutes ago, Slow Joe said:

When trailering with a enclosed whether it be a clam shell style or more along the lines of a cargo unit what is the law on securing your sleds and gas can,s tow behind sleds etc in particular the sled itself.Joe  

All cargo, regardless of what it is must be secured in order to prevent it's ejection in normal driving as well as a collision.  There ate some pretty specific specifications buried deep in the regulations..  but essentially if you have the following covered, you're good. 

-front and rear tied down/secured by quick clamps

-winch does NOT count as a tie down (ATVs)

-loose fuel containers secured in brackets or bungee cords. Fuel stored in approved containers.

-all loose items secured in container or some other way to prevent falling off trailer/out of truck bed.

-all tie downs, ropes, bungees etc  must be in good condition.  

12 minutes ago, odot1 said:

All cargo, regardless of what it is must be secured in order to prevent it's ejection in normal driving as well as a collision.  There ate some pretty specific specifications buried deep in the regulations..  but essentially if you have the following covered, you're good. 

-front and rear tied down/secured by quick clamps

-winch does NOT count as a tie down (ATVs)

-loose fuel containers secured in brackets or bungee cords. Fuel stored in approved containers.

-all loose items secured in container or some other way to prevent falling off trailer/out of truck bed.

-all tie downs, ropes, bungees etc  must be in good condition.  

Interesting. One of my employees was pulled over last winter. Charged $490 for not having a 1 gallon gas can secured. When leaving the cop would not allow the use of a bungy cord to secure the can, had to be strap with weight tag. The cop did allow him to set it on the floor inside the cab with no securing strap.

Made no sense to me.

 

24 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Interesting. One of my employees was pulled over last winter. Charged $490 for not having a 1 gallon gas can secured. When leaving the cop would not allow the use of a bungy cord to secure the can, had to be strap with weight tag. The cop did allow him to set it on the floor inside the cab with no securing strap.

Made no sense to me.

 

The fine for an insecure load is $160 for regular vehicles or $390 for commercial vehicles.  The only $490 fine I can think of is for cell phones. I find it odd that he wouldn't allow a bungee cord unless it was damaged in some way.  I've never met a copper that woukd suggest fuel be stored within a cab.  But there are a few "different" ones out there.  

4 minutes ago, odot1 said:

The fine for an insecure load is $160 for regular vehicles or $390 for commercial vehicles.  The only $490 fine I can think of is for cell phones. I find it odd that he wouldn't allow a bungee cord unless it was damaged in some way.  I've never met a copper that woukd suggest fuel be stored within a cab.  But there are a few "different" ones out there.  

You're right, $390.

Since that happened, I keep mine inside a wooden box.

 

Edited February 10, 20187 yr by Blackstar

46 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Interesting. One of my employees was pulled over last winter. Charged $490 for not having a 1 gallon gas can secured. When leaving the cop would not allow the use of a bungy cord to secure the can, had to be strap with weight tag. The cop did allow him to set it on the floor inside the cab with no securing strap.

Made no sense to me.

 

 

16 minutes ago, odot1 said:

The fine for an insecure load is $160 for regular vehicles or $390 for commercial vehicles.  The only $490 fine I can think of is for cell phones. I find it odd that he wouldn't allow a bungee cord unless it was damaged in some way.  I've never met a copper that would suggest fuel be stored within a cab.  But there are a few "different" ones out there.  

I am unsure of the proper transportation of "gas" or "gas cans" but maybe that cop was confused with the proper transportation of propane, which is, it can't be carried in a trunk but rather in the cab of a vehicle/car. 

When I first learned of this many years ago, I thought it was nuts but that's what the regulations/rules/laws read. 

 

This past summer I had a 20 lb tank filled at Costco, put it in the trunk just as I always do.  The attendant came right over to the car and demanded it go in the passenger compartment.  Told him to get bent and drove off, but it would seem he was right.

4 minutes ago, stealth bomber said:

This past summer I had a 20 lb tank filled at Costco, put it in the trunk just as I always do.  The attendant came right over to the car and demanded it go in the passenger compartment.  Told him to get bent and drove off, but it would seem he was right.

Yeah....  just seems so bizarre really! 

13 hours ago, odot1 said:

Yeah....  just seems so bizarre really! 

It makes sense when you think about it.  If the cylinder is in the passenger compartment and the relief valve starts leaking you will smell it way before there is any real danger. In an enclosed car trunk the concentration of gas could easily reach the tipping point before you caught a whiff. If ignited it would be like a bomb going off in the trunk. 

2 hours ago, Pete Z said:

It makes sense when you think about it.  If the cylinder is in the passenger compartment and the relief valve starts leaking you will smell it way before there is any real danger. In an enclosed car trunk the concentration of gas could easily reach the tipping point before you caught a whiff. If ignited it would be like a bomb going off in the trunk. 

True... plus windows cracked will help vent.....  wouldn't want to light up a cig tho!  Or...post 01JUL18...... 

Iam unclear as to what trailers require a safety certification(yellow sticker)is it just a weight thing or whether or not it has factory braking system this of course is for snowmobile trailers and if the trailer is required to  have a sticker is the tow vehicle, reference is being made to cargo style snowmobile trailers and or cargo trailers used for personal use.Joe 

5 minutes ago, Slow Joe said:

Iam unclear as to what trailers require a safety certification(yellow sticker)is it just a weight thing or whether or not it has factory braking system this of course is for snowmobile trailers and if the trailer is required to  have a sticker is the tow vehicle, reference is being made to cargo style snowmobile trailers and or cargo trailers used for personal use.Joe 

It gets a little confusing....

1. the total gross weight, registered gross weight (RGW) or manufacturer’s gross vehicle weight rating (MGVWR) of the vehicle exceeds 4,500 kg or 9,920 lbs.
2. the combined weight of the vehicle and towed trailer or converter dolly exceeds 4,500 kg or 9,920 lbs

So essentially.... if your tow vehicle's registered weight (check your green registration card) you need that certificate (yellow sticker).  If your vehicle has the sticker...your trailer needs one as well.   If your loaded trailer and tow vehicle  exceed the limits...you need the sticker...

Wouldn't that be pretty much all "heavier" towed conveyances then?  Average SUVs and pickups already weigh 5000-6500 lbs.  Doesn't leave much for the trailer!  Many sled trailers would be over that limit. 

9 minutes ago, Puzzleboy said:

Wouldn't that be pretty much all "heavier" towed conveyances then?  Average SUVs and pickups already weigh 5000-6500 lbs.  Doesn't leave much for the trailer!  Many sled trailers would be over that limit. 

You can actually register your truck's GVRW lower than what the manufacturer has... but god help you should the MTO weigh you and you're over. 

Might give insurance companies an "out" also if a large payment was on the table. 

Just now, Puzzleboy said:

Might give insurance companies an "out" also if a large payment was on the table. 

Yup.... they'll grasp at anything tp avoid paying. 

The fines are minimal for over weight. Not as bad as a loose gas can at least....lol

 

Most people or dealers who register a pick up these days just get the minimum 3000 kg plates. Combine this with a trailer with a single 3000 lbs axle and you have no need for the yellow safety sticker. You're under the 4500 kg combine register weight.

 

Your typical 4 door 1/2 ton pick up weighs 5500-5700 lbs. This only leaves around a 1000 lbs of load before you exceed the 3000 kg registered weight.

But most people are doing this so rarely that its not a concern and, as long as you don't have a name on the door, you're not a rolling target for the MTO.

1 hour ago, Puzzleboy said:

Wouldn't that be pretty much all "heavier" towed conveyances then?  Average SUVs and pickups already weigh 5000-6500 lbs.  Doesn't leave much for the trailer!  Many sled trailers would be over that limit.