Gold Member BOHICA Posted June 21, 2022 Author Gold Member Share Posted June 21, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Snake said: LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY PERSONAL CHOICES! What personal choices have I told anybody about in here in this thread? Threads about how renewables are saving the Texas grid and some freak out at that Edited June 21, 2022 by BOHICA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Just now, BOHICA said: What personal choices have I told anybody about in here in this thread? Threads about how renewables are saving the Texas grid and some freak out at that Just leave a pamphlet at the front door and move on... I go to church on Sunday and don't want to be bothered with any other religion during the week... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted June 21, 2022 Author Gold Member Share Posted June 21, 2022 Just now, Snake said: Just leave a pamphlet at the front door and move on... I go to church on Sunday and don't want to be bothered with any other religion during the week... That is what I did…. Left the pamphlet in the OP and here you are balling your eyes out!!! Or Is it just jealousy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 1 minute ago, BOHICA said: That is what I did…. Left the pamphlet in the OP and here you are balling your eyes out!!! Or Is it just jealousy? FUCK! I'm busted... Imma burn in hell.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepybrew Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 3 hours ago, Snake said: I mean really... if you work your whole life to make yourself comfortable enough in retirement to pay for $5-6 dollars a gallon for gas without it breaking your bank, why would you listen to someone who repeatedly wants to tell you how stupid you are? kind of like my girlfriend's knitting friend's husband. the look on his face was priceless. trying to convince me that i should be for socialized medicine. i told him , you expect me to give up my platinum health insurance, that has no deductible, is paid for by my employer, where i can see anyone, anytime for a corrupt system that takes more than half my pay for bullshit coverage. fuck off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Or you know, follow the science and build nuclear plants which is significantly more effective and reliable at generating electricity 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 44 minutes ago, sleepybrew said: kind of like my girlfriend's knitting friend's husband. the look on his face was priceless. trying to convince me that i should be for socialized medicine. i told him , you expect me to give up my platinum health insurance, that has no deductible, is paid for by my employer, where i can see anyone, anytime for a corrupt system that takes more than half my pay for bullshit coverage. fuck off. You don’t want what we have. It’s not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepybrew Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 16 minutes ago, ACE said: You don’t want what we have. It’s not good. my mom is from Newfoundland. my cousin let's me know what is going on. he explained the cost, the level of treatment, and the corruption. i'll pass. can't beat my employer paid mvp platinum. don't know why that is hard to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 10 minutes ago, sleepybrew said: my mom is from Newfoundland. my cousin let's me know what is going on. he explained the cost, the level of treatment, and the corruption. i'll pass. can't beat my employer paid mvp platinum. don't know why that is hard to understand. It’s fucked. Lots of nurses quit in some small towns around here because a certain demographic of patients mistreat them so bad. Who wants to be spit on and being told just to suck it up? The entire system is shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepybrew Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 36 minutes ago, ACE said: It’s fucked. Lots of nurses quit in some small towns around here because a certain demographic of patients mistreat them so bad. Who wants to be spit on and being told just to suck it up? The entire system is shit. my cousin said the dr has a limited amount of patients per year. capped income, so they left for the states to make real money. he has connections and said he could have a dr appt tomorrow, where the average person would be months. just what he told me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 9 hours ago, irv said: Am I reading that right? When its cold it's just the weather but when it is hot it is climate change? being a snowmobile site, I'm in favor of pushing climate change and it's getting hotter, because I'm always shopping for a sweet deal on a low mileage sled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Jimmy Snacks Posted June 21, 2022 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted June 21, 2022 37 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said: being a snowmobile site, I'm in favor of pushing climate change and it's getting hotter, because I'm always shopping for a sweet deal on a low mileage sled. I’m more concerned with Manbearpig…🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 And then there is this hypocrite. Where do these f@#$ing idiots come from? https://torontosun.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-sebastian-vettel-needs-to-quit-racing-right-now I have seen a lot of hypocrisy over the years, but this one takes the cake. A race car driver sponsored by Aston Martin, with financing from Saudi Aramco, complaining about the oil sands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nascarmike Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 https://www.theblaze.com/news/wsj-journalist-regrets-electric-car-road-trip 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said: being a snowmobile site, I'm in favor of pushing climate change and it's getting hotter, because I'm always shopping for a sweet deal on a low mileage sled. I'm curious why Bochia didn't answer my question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin_dry Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 irv is pissed off because he can't understand why wind turbines are a success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nascarmike Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 25 minutes ago, spin_dry said: irv is pissed off because he can't understand why wind turbines are a success. Do you realize how much oil a wind turbine uses? That's a fossil fuel, so they can't be that green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin_dry Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 Just now, nascarmike said: Do you realize how much oil a wind turbine uses? That's a fossil fuel, so they can't be that green. Oh god....not this again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, nascarmike said: Do you realize how much oil a wind turbine uses? That's a fossil fuel, so they can't be that green. Spin is invested large and will defend them even if he looks like a fool doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nascarmike Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 Building one wind turbine requires 900 tons of steel, 2,500 tons of concrete and 45 tons of nonrecyclable plastic. Solar power requires even more cement, steel and glass—not to mention other metals. They are both not that efficient, so how are they successful? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin_dry Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 21 minutes ago, irv said: Spin is invested large and will defend them even if he looks like a fool doing so. You believe any meme put in front of you. Retard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin_dry Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 Wind turbine pays for itself in 6 years and 7 months. They have a life expectancy of 20-25 years. This is why power companies are investing in them. https://www.semprius.com/how-long-does-it-take-a-wind-turbine-to-pay-for-itself/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plissken Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 1 hour ago, irv said: I'm curious why Bochia didn't answer my question? @BOHICA Bend Over Here Irv Comes Again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 14 minutes ago, spin_dry said: Wind turbine pays for itself in 6 years and 7 months. They have a life expectancy of 20-25 years. This is why power companies are investing in them. https://www.semprius.com/how-long-does-it-take-a-wind-turbine-to-pay-for-itself/ Picks an article from a wind and solar company and thinks they wouldn't be biased with their info on how great they are. Try again, Spun. You're failing miserably. As consumers, we pay for electricity twice: once through our monthly electricity bill and a second time through taxes that finance massive subsidies for inefficient wind and other energy producers. Most cost estimates for wind power disregard the heavy burden of these subsidies on US taxpayers. But if Americans realized the full cost of generating energy from wind power, they would be less willing to foot the bill – because it’s more than most people think. Over the past 35 years, wind energy – which supplies just 2% of US electricity – has received US$30 billion in federal subsidies and grants. These subsidies shield people from the uncomfortable truth of just how much wind power actually costs and transfer money from average taxpayers to wealthy wind farm owners, many of which are units of foreign companies. Proponents tend to claim it costs as little as $59 to generate a megawatt-hour of electricity from wind. In reality, the true price tag is more than two and a half times that. This represents a waste of resources that could be better spent by taxpayers themselves. Even the supposed environmental gains of relying more on wind power are dubious because of its unreliability – it doesn’t always blow – meaning a stable backup power source must always be online to take over during periods of calm. But at the same time, the subsidies make the US energy infrastructure more tenuous because the artificially cheap electricity prices push more reliable producers – including those needed as backup – out of the market. As we rely more on wind for our power and its inherent unreliability, the risk of blackouts grows. If that happens, the costs will really soar. Many government agencies are in the wind business these days. GAO Where the subsidies go Many people may be familiar with Warren Buffet’s claim that federal policies are the only reason to build wind farms in the US, but few realize how many of the companies that benefit most are foreign. The Investigative Reporting Workshop at American University found that, as of 2010, 84% of total clean-energy grants awarded by the federal government went to foreign-owned wind companies. More generally, the beneficiaries of federal renewable energy policies tend to be large companies, not individual taxpayers or small businesses. The top five recipients of federal grants and tax credits since 2000 are: Iberdrola, NextEra Energy, NRG Energy, Southern Company and Summit Power, all of which have received more than $1 billion in federal benefits. Iberdrola Renewables alone, a unit of a Spanish utility, has collected $2.2 billion in federal grants and allocated tax credits over the past 15 years. That’s equivalent to about 6.7% of the parent company’s 2014 revenue of $33 billion (in current US dollars). President Obama’s proposed 2016 budget would permanently extend the biggest federal subsidy for wind power, the Production Tax Credit (PTC), ensuring that large foreign companies continue to reap most of the taxpayer-funded benefits for wind. The PTC is a federal subsidy that pays wind farm owners $23 per megawatt-hour through the first ten years of a turbine’s operation. The credit expired at the end of 2013, but Congress extended it so that all projects under construction by the end of 2014 are eligible. In all, Congress has enacted 82 policies, overseen by nine different agencies, to support wind power. I explained in December why Congress shouldn’t revive the PTC, which expired at the end of 2014. In this article, I’m adding up the true cost of wind power in the US, including the impact of the PTC and other subsidies and mandates. It’s part of a study I’m doing of other energy sources including solar, natural gas, and coal to determine how much each one actually cost us when all factors are considered. As Warren Buffett has said, there wouldn’t be a wind industry without the PTC. UCS, DOE, AWEA Tallying the true costs of wind Depending on which factors are included, estimates for the cost of wind power vary wildly. On the low end, the financial advisory firm Lazard claims wind costs $59 per megawatt-hour. On the high side, Michael Giberson at the Center for Energy Commerce at Texas Tech University suggests the it’s closer to $149. Our analysis in an upcoming report explores this wide gap in cost estimates, finding that most studies underestimate the genuine cost of wind because they overlook key factors. All estimates for wind power include the cost of purchasing capital and paying for operations and maintenance (O&M) of wind turbines. For the studies we examined, capital costs ranged from $48 to $88 per megawatt-hour, while O&M costs ranged from $9.8 to $21 per megawatt-hour. Many estimates, however, don’t include costs related to the inherent unreliability of wind power and government subsidies and mandates. Since we can’t ensure the wind always blows, or how strongly, coal and natural gas plants must be kept on as backup to compensate when it’s calm. This is known as baseload cycling, and its cost ranges from $2 to $23 per megawatt-hour. This also reduces the environmental friendliness of wind power. Because a coal-fired or natural gas power plant must be kept online in case there’s no wind, two plants are running to do the job of one. These plants create carbon emissions, reducing the environmental benefits of wind. The amount by which emissions reductions are offset by baseload cycling ranges from 20% to 50%, according to a modeling study by two professors at Carnegie Mellon University. While the backup plants are necessary to ensure the grid’s reliability, their ability to operate is threatened by wind subsidies. The federal dollars encourage wind farm owners to produce power even when prices are low, flooding the market with cheap electricity. That pushes prices down even further and makes it harder for more reliable producers, such as nuclear plants, that don’t get hefty subsidies to stay in business. For example, the Kewaunee Nuclear Plant in Wisconsin and the Yankee Nuclear Plant in Vermont both switched off their reactors in 2013. Dominion Energy, which owned both plants, blamed the artificially low prices caused by the PTC as one of the reasons for the shutdown. As more reliable sources drop off and wind power takes their place, consumers are left with an electrical infrastructure that is less reliable and less capable of meeting demand. Lost in transmission Another factor often overlooked is the extra cost of transmission. Many of America’s wind-rich areas are remote and the turbines are often planted in open fields, far from major cities. That means new transmission lines must be built to carry electricity to consumers. The cost of building new transmission lines ranges from $15 to $27 per megawatt-hour. In 2013, Texas completed its Competitive Renewable Energy Zone project, adding over 3,600 miles of transmission lines to remote wind farms, costing state taxpayers $7 billion. Although transmission infrastructure may be considered a fixed cost that will reduce future transmission costs for wind power, these costs will likely remain important. Today’s wind farms are built in areas with prime wind resources. If we continue to subsidize wind power, producers will eventually expand to sub-prime locations that may be even further from population centers. This would feed demand for additional transmission projects to transport electricity from remote wind farms to cities. The final bill comes to… Finally, federal subsidies and state mandates also add significantly to the cost, even as many estimates claim these incentives actually reduce the cost of wind energy. In fact, they add to it as American taxpayers are forced to foot the bill. According to Giberson, federal and state policies add an average of $23 per megawatt-hour to the cost of wind power. That includes the impact of state mandates, which end up increasing the cost of electricity on consumer power bills. California is one of the most aggressive in pushing so-called Renewable Portfolio Standards (RPS), requiring the state to consume 33% of its electricity from renewables by 2020. Overall electricity prices in states with RPS are 38% higher than those without, according to the Institute for Energy Research, a non-profit research group that promotes free markets. The best estimate available for the total cost of wind power is $149 per megawatt-hour, taken from Giberson’s 2013 report. It is difficult to quantify some factors of the cost of wind power, such as the cost of state policies. Giberson’s estimate, however, includes the most relevant factors in attempting to measure the true cost of producing electricity from wind power. In future reports, Strata will explore the true cost of producing electricity from solar, coal, and natural gas. Until those reports are completed, it is difficult to accurately compare the true cost of wind to other technologies, as true cost studies have not yet been completed. Blowing in the wind The high costs of federal subsidies and state mandates for wind power have not paid off for the American public. According to the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, wind energy receives a higher percentage of federal subsidies than any other type of energy while generating a very small percentage of the nation’s electricity. In 2010 the wind energy sector received 42% of total federal subsidies while producing only 2% of the nation’s total electricity. By comparison, coal receives 10% of all subsidies and generates 45% and nuclear is about even at about 20%. Wind gobbles up the largest share of subsidies yet produces little power. EIA But policymakers at the federal and state level, unfortunately, have decided that the American people will have renewable energy, no matter how high the costs. As a result, taxpayers will be stuck paying the cost of subsidies to wealthy wind producers. Meanwhile, electricity consumers will be forced to purchase the more expensive power that results from state-level mandates for renewable energy production. Although such policies may be well intended, the real results will be limited freedom, reduced prosperity and an increasingly unreliable power supply. Megan Hansen, a Strata policy analyst, co-authored this article. This article is published in collaboration with The Conversation. Publication does not imply endorsement of views by the World Economic Forum. To keep up with the Agenda subscribe to our weekly newsletter. Author: Randy Simmons is a Professor of Political Economy at Utah State University. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin_dry Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 23 hours ago, nascarmike said: The average F-150 utilizes about 200 semiconductor chips. Source: Ford Rep The New F-150 Lightning uses 3000 semiconductor chips. Source: Jim Farley, CEO FoMoCo Here lies another dilemma. A 15:1 hoarding of an already scarce commodity. Good luck getting a vehicle then if these things ever take off. Hey, we’re Texas. A guy by the name of irv convinced us to stop building and using wind turbines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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