Which engine manufacturer...

[Crnr2Crnr]

would you want to partner with today to develop a new 4S snowmobile engine if you ran a snowmobile company?

I'm torn between Mercury and Honda.

Polaris is going to have to get in the 4S sled game sooner or later.

[Deephaven]

The industry is way more inbred than that.  If there is one, I'd bet on Yamaha.

[Not greg b]

1 hour ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

would you want to partner with today to develop a new 4S snowmobile engine if you ran a snowmobile company?

I'm torn between Mercury and Honda.

Polaris is going to have to get in the 4S sled game sooner or later.

GM. They need to quit fucking around and LS swap one of these things and be done with it. A LS swapped turd will only weigh 100 pounds more than rx1ton and make 1000 more HP.

[Bontz]

Polaris won't get into the 4-stroke game ... if they haven't done it by now, they're gonna stick to their guns IMHO.  And trust me, from what I've heard over the years right from the horse's mouth - there's just zero interest.  That said, if I had to choose an outside company to build/deliver a 4-stroke, I wouldn't complain about a Honda, Suzuki, or Yamaha.  

[krom]

Not sure about honda...  Their dirt engines aren't what they used to be, power or reliability wise.

Of course I'm partial to suzuki

[wrinkly balls]

Briggs & Stratton!!!!!

[Not greg b]

56 minutes ago, Bontz said:

Polaris won't get into the 4-stroke game ... if they haven't done it by now, they're gonna stick to their guns IMHO.  And trust me, from what I've heard over the years right from the horse's mouth - there's just zero interest.  That said, if I had to choose an outside company to build/deliver a 4-stroke, I wouldn't complain about a Honda, Suzuki, or Yamaha.  

I bet Polaris has a battery sled before a 4 stroke. That will really drive the 4 stroke fan boys nuts 

[Bontz]

17 minutes ago, Not greg b said:

I bet Polaris has a battery sled before a 4 stroke. That will really drive the 4 stroke fan boys nuts 

I could see that too, given their investment in some of the electric technology they've made the past few years.

[Not greg b]

57 minutes ago, Bontz said:

I could see that too, given their investment in some of the electric technology they've made the past few years.

And the fact Scott wine said they will have an ev in every product category by 2025 before he left for case. They probably will

[ZR6000RR]

2 hours ago, wrinkly balls said:

Briggs & Stratton!!!!!

So Polaris then. Just watched a video of a spun bearing, well all of them on one of there bullet proof RZR's. 

[ZR6000RR]

1 hour ago, Bontz said:

1 hour ago, Not greg b said:

I bet Polaris has a battery sled before a 4 stroke. That will really drive the 4 stroke fan boys nuts 

And the unlucky buyers when they find out that Jack Pines don't charge for shit!

 

[Ziemann]

3 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

would you want to partner with today to develop a new 4S snowmobile engine if you ran a snowmobile company?

I'm torn between Mercury and Honda.

Polaris is going to have to get in the 4S sled game sooner or later.

Why? 

I tend to also agree that Polaris will leap frog ahead to EV's and completely bypass 4 strokes. They've had the ability to use a 4S all along, they certainly aren't going to do it now. The only option I can think of would be a home grown 4Stroke. 

Maybe Fuji Heavy Industries could build them a 4 stoke Subaru engine..... 

[Deephaven]

Shoe horning a side by side engine in a sled is not a solution.  They have the tech, but would still have to invest a couple million to bring it to fruition.  The return would never be great on that.  Having a partner offer one that is off the shelf like the Yammie unit however is  complete different story.  The Cat relationship with Yamaha is not exclusive.  Suzuki could offer something to punk Cat, but Yamaha IMO is the most likely partner.  That way the cost/return is instant for both albeit smaller than if 4st took over the sled world but since the buying public have made sure that won't happen still clamoring for 2 strokes.  Can you imagine the disdain from the green crew if the same motor were offered in both.  2012 vs something that doesn't ride like the past.

[Crnr2Crnr]

1 hour ago, ZR6000RR said:

 

Great reply...

1 hour ago, Ziemann said:

Why? 

I tend to also agree that Polaris will leap frog ahead to EV's and completely bypass 4 strokes. They've had the ability to use a 4S all along, they certainly aren't going to do it now. The only option I can think of would be a home grown 4Stroke. 

Maybe Fuji Heavy Industries could build them a 4 stoke Subaru engine..... 

Because it's 2022 and Polaris is holding strong (thusfar) to 2S and one would assume they're going to make the leap at some point to compete with BRP.  Cat only has one 4S, even though Yammie has the non-turbo.  And honestly... I enjoy these type of conversations.

24 minutes ago, Deephaven said:

Shoe horning a side by side engine in a sled is not a solution.  They have the tech, but would still have to invest a couple million to bring it to fruition.  The return would never be great on that.  Having a partner offer one that is off the shelf like the Yammie unit however is  complete different story.  The Cat relationship with Yamaha is not exclusive.  Suzuki could offer something to punk Cat, but Yamaha IMO is the most likely partner.  That way the cost/return is instant for both albeit smaller than if 4st took over the sled world but since the buying public have made sure that won't happen still clamoring for 2 strokes.  Can you imagine the disdain from the green crew if the same motor were offered in both.  2012 vs something that doesn't ride like the past.

There you go... Yamaha like Mercury is primary an engine supplier.  What they've both done in the marine environment and phasing from 2S to 4S has been impressive.  I also include Honda because they also produce a fine 4S.  They are compatible to an extent because my like a snowmobile engine an outboard goes from idling to running WOT all day long at high RPM so their durability in this realm is proven.

[800renegaderider]

My vote is for Kawasaki. They already make the fastest production bike h2r so why not a sled. I think a 300hp supercharged sled would be badass.

[Not greg b]

4 hours ago, krom said:

Not sure about honda...  Their dirt engines aren't what they used to be, power or reliability wise.

Of course I'm partial to suzuki

Honda is complete shit hole of company to work with if you want them to supply an engine for your company. You might as well have them build the whole machine. They are also great about fooling HP ratings. Say you need a 12hp engine. You call them for one, they will spec one out that makes more then enough power for what you need. They send you a few test engines and they wont power the machine for shit. They then say sorry made 12hp in Japan but had to make adjustment to meet US emissions. 

[p51mstg]

16 minutes ago, Not greg b said:

Honda is complete shit hole of company to work with if you want them to supply an engine for your company. You might as well have them build the whole machine. They are also great about fooling HP ratings. Say you need a 12hp engine. You call them for one, they will spec one out that makes more then enough power for what you need. They send you a few test engines and they wont power the machine for shit. They then say sorry made 12hp in Japan but had to make adjustment to meet US emissions. 

That’s interesting.  I would say my opinion of Honda has always been opposite.  Makes me think twice about them.

I tend to agree about Yamaha.  At first, I wasn’t sure, but then I realized they’re a company in the snowmobile business to sell engines.  Not like Cat or Polaris, who are in the engine business to sell snowmobiles.

[Not greg b]

20 minutes ago, p51mstg said:

That’s interesting.  I would say my opinion of Honda has always been opposite.  Makes me think twice about them.

I tend to agree about Yamaha.  At first, I wasn’t sure, but then I realized they’re a company in the snowmobile business to sell engines.  Not like Cat or Polaris, who are in the engine business to sell snowmobiles.

It’s the reason why a lot of companies in the power equipment business went away from using Honda engines. You use to see Honda engines on everything. Now if it isn’t a Honda built product it will probably have something else as an engine. 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Not greg b

[Crnr2Crnr]

31 minutes ago, p51mstg said:

That’s interesting.  I would say my opinion of Honda has always been opposite.  Makes me think twice about them.

I tend to agree about Yamaha.  At first, I wasn’t sure, but then I realized they’re a company in the snowmobile business to sell engines.  Not like Cat or Polaris, who are in the engine business to sell snowmobiles.

ironic that until the Ctec, Cat's always used someone else's engines and focused on the chassis.  Now, no new chassis, good 600, questionable 800, Yammie powered 4S

my premise for this was and is, what major corporation that focuses most of their engineering and R&D solely around engines makes the most sense?  Mercury has no interest in building anything but engines, has 4S's that can spin a big prop at high rpm's and they're 'local'.   just fumbling through some math if a 150hp N/A 4S can spin a prop at 5800rpm pushing a pontoon boat through the water, why not a small aluminum clutch on a sled?

yes, I think about a lot of stupid things.    

11 minutes ago, Not greg b said:

It’s the reason why a lot of companies in the power equipment business went away from using Honda engines. You use to see Honda engines on everything. Now if it isn’t a Honda built product it will probably have something else as an engine. 

This comment has merit.  

On another note and PBR #3, how about hybrid power and regenerative braking on a sled.  Pin the flipper and when you let off the gas let the energy flow back to the batteries?  Honestly, these are interesting times to be in engineering and trying 'new things' at the consumers expense. 

[Deephaven]

29 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

how about hybrid power and regenerative braking on a sled.  Pin the flipper and when you let off the gas let the energy flow back to the batteries?  Honestly, these are interesting times to be in engineering and trying 'new things' at the consumers expense. 

Sounds reliable.  Let's have Polaris do it first 

[Crnr2Crnr]

12 minutes ago, Deephaven said:

Sounds reliable.  Let's have Polaris do it first 

 

one pedal driving... one flipper riding.  let off throttle, regenerative braking occurs.  still has brakes...

what's the easiest way to put out a lithium ion battery fire? 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-21/porsches-and-lamborghinis-lost-at-sea-may-be-worth-155-million

@krom?   

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Crnr2Crnr

[racinfarmer]

Bring back the Suzuki 600 race motors!

[Crnr2Crnr]

Just now, racinfarmer said:

Bring back the Suzuki 600 race motors!

what makes you think they ever went away? 

[racinfarmer]

1 minute ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

what makes you think they ever went away? 

You're right, I still have some kicking around.  

[Crnr2Crnr]

9 minutes ago, racinfarmer said:

You're right, I still have some kicking around.  

ever looked at the jug part numbers on a 2018 SX?  

(click where used) https://www.babbittsonline.com/oemparts/partsearch/arctic_cat_snowmobile?partsearch=3007-717

or the head on a 2021 ?

(click where used)  https://www.babbittsonline.com/oemparts/partsearch/arctic_cat_snowmobile?partsearch=1904-008

I was comparing some notes with our mutual friend one afternoon... while comparing some particular OEM/AM parts between 2008, 2011 and 2018 and pondering how to make a 2018 run on pump fuel swapping out a few specific items.  

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Crnr2Crnr