racer254 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 23 minutes ago, motonoggin said: You clearly have a lack of understanding of what I'm actually talking about. I would advise you to bow out of this conversation. Oh ffs, you are not some intellectual genius regarding this. Government manipulation has definitely cause it and the list of people here that you are arguing with DON'T WANT BIG GOVERNMENT. Others believe that manipulating MW will do nothing that you want. It will just move the whole ladder, of poor, middle and rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry ginger Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Just now, racer254 said: Oh ffs, you are not some intellectual genius regarding this. Government manipulation has definitely cause it and the list of people here that you are arguing with DON'T WANT BIG GOVERNMENT. Others believe that manipulating MW will do nothing that you want. It will just move the whole ladder, of poor, middle and rich. he believes in communism so it's clear he's completely retarded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Angry ginger said: he believes in communism so it's clear he's completely retarded. There are literally zero examples of this little utopia he speaks about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted June 11, 2021 Author Share Posted June 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, racer254 said: Oh ffs, you are not some intellectual genius regarding this. Government manipulation has definitely cause it and the list of people here that you are arguing with DON'T WANT BIG GOVERNMENT. Others believe that manipulating MW will do nothing that you want. It will just move the whole ladder, of poor, middle and rich. I don't claim to be an economic genius, I just know basic macroeconomics. Many of you clearly do not have even one shred of knowledge regarding macroeconomics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Snake said: You won't think so if you need to figure out how many 2x4s to get out of a log... The horror after looking at lumber last Friday made me want to cut my own god damn trees down. Almost $10 for a god damn 2x4? And I don't want to even talk about sheet goods. I mean WTF????? Seen next door: "Covid really hasn't had an affect on most of us". 2 hours ago, racer254 said: I would like to know his opinion why the stagnant wages in the United States are so much higher than say the stagnant wages in Mexico or other countries. But moto only complains about the US. I guess that is what happens when those wages have led to the highest income and best middle class of any other country in the world. Wow. He's on these forums for my entertainment and, truth is, I enjoy it. It's the most amazing case of self selling a narrative that is false and, I can at least give him credit for being consistent and now wavering in his mindset...even if I find it all skewed and incredibly incorrect. He's got some brains to him even if some areas are void of power or have been mis-wired somewhere along the way. 1 hour ago, f7ben said: You’re a fucking black hole of stupidity. Literally the dumbest cocksucker I’ve ever been exposed to. Brain fucking dead. Ok...I lol'd hard here....but I thought you said, "black Friday of stupidity" ...still, "black hole" was funny too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted June 11, 2021 Author Share Posted June 11, 2021 Just now, racer254 said: There are literally zero examples of this little utopia he speaks about. If I were actually advocating for communism right now, I would be telling you to continue wage stagnation and foment the ultimate end of capitalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 hour ago, motonoggin said: I don't claim to be an economic genius, I just know basic macroeconomics. Many of you clearly do not have even one shred of knowledge regarding macroeconomics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted June 11, 2021 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Do you want to preserve capitalism? Because I'm telling you how to do so. Continuing wage stagnation will only lead to what you think that I want and what you fear the most, which is a socialist revolution. You telling me. That's rich. Here we go again. 1. You can't compare wages to productivity. As productivity has increased it has also kept the cost down and availability high of goods. 2. You can't look at JUST wages. When companies now pay for things that previously came out of an individuals pocket you have to look at overall compensation. 3. I agree we are living on borrowed time when it comes to our debt and I've been against govt, corp and personal debt levels since the times of HCSCE. Most of the debt in this country is not to make weekends meet. I wanted to let the banks and auto companies fail during the 07-08 financial crisis. I think one of the few place we need financial regulation is how much someone or something can borrow. 4. Not sure why we try to compare today to what it was like in the 50's or 60's. We have so much more and yes much of it borrowed to pay for. 40 years ago families had very few bills as compared to today. House, 1-2 vehicles, utilities and maybe a cable bill. The rest likely went towards medical and savings. People were happy with much, much less. https://thenewamerican.com/is-there-wage-stagnation/ Edited June 11, 2021 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Angry ginger said: shit i know many people working at grocery stores for example where they have barely a HS education and are making 60-70k because they work hard and advance. losers stay in positions where they make minimal money, motivated advance. Nailed it. Fact is, good employees still get rewarded. They always have and really good ones are sought after on an hourly basis. Right now....ANY motivated person can find an apprenticeship in the trades and NEVER have to worry about economic conditions again. But...."motivated" is now being run over by "entitlement" as somehow the same. Kids just don't think the same anymore. My daughter now has the experience and enough know-how to move into bigger and better pay scales with larger operations offering more training and better opportunities. She gave me the "why would I? I got it made where I am now" line and we had ourselves a little "sit-down" about the downfalls of stagnant employment. Still, she's young.....I just want her to know that options for advancement and money have never been better than they are now with all the retards running around wanting everything while doing nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 35 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Do you want to preserve capitalism? Because I'm telling you how to do so. Continuing wage stagnation will only lead to what you think that I want and what you fear the most, which is a socialist revolution. That will only ensure most people remain poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted June 11, 2021 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) 42 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Four decades of manipulation is not going to correct itself. The only thing that can fix it is more manipulation on the demand side. The supply side has benefited for 40 years, it's time workers got some as well. It's the only way to right the wrongs of the last four decades. Why do you continuously fail to recognize that the average consumer can and is a part of the "supply" side? If you aren't its more by choice than anything. Work hard, don't spend money on foolish things and invest in property, equities or something. Many so called average Joe's retire multi-millionaires working for someone else but living intelligently. Edited June 11, 2021 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted June 11, 2021 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Zambroski said: Nailed it. Fact is, good employees still get rewarded. They always have and really good ones are sought after on an hourly basis. Right now....ANY motivated person can find an apprenticeship in the trades and NEVER have to worry about economic conditions again. But...."motivated" is now being run over by "entitlement" as somehow the same. Kids just don't think the same anymore. My daughter now has the experience and enough know-how to move into bigger and better pay scales with larger operations offering more training and better opportunities. She gave me the "why would I? I got it made where I am now" line and we had ourselves a little "sit-down" about the downfalls of stagnant employment. Still, she's young.....I just want her to know that options for advancement and money have never been better than they are now with all the retards running around wanting everything while doing nothing. What makes a better society? One filled with people hoping the govt can provide a simple life and that's it and that's where they want to stay or one filled with people with the desire for more? America clearly leads the world in innovation. Nobody even comes close. Edited June 11, 2021 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Highmark said: What makes a better society? One filled with people hoping the govt can provide a simple life and that it and that where they stay or one filled with people with the desire for more? America clearly leads the world in innovation. Nobody even comes close. The bottom line....undisputed by anybody with moderate IQ levels is that, while not perfect, capitalism is by far the best economic system in history. Sure, it can be a tough game sometimes but, almost all benefit one way or another. Just because they don't think they benefit enough entitles them only to their opinion, void of facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roosting Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Is moto actually advocating that people with caviar dreams demand that compensation at mcdonalds instead of taking the initiative and finding a higher paying job? And then doubling down and calling merit based compensation as bad? or did I read this wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Roosting said: Is moto actually advocating that people with caviar dreams demand that compensation at mcdonalds instead of taking the initiative and finding a higher paying job? And then doubling down and calling merit based compensation as bad? or did I read this wrong? Sounds about right but, honestly, not many here really pay much attention to detail of his stale, pro-socialist/communist rhetoric anymore. It's like being in a room with somebody reciting "knock-knock" jokes. Sure, it fills the silence void from time to time but, none are worth really listening to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted June 11, 2021 Author Share Posted June 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Highmark said: Why do you continuously fail to recognize that the average consumer can and is a part of the "supply" side? If you aren't its more by choice than anything. Work hard, don't spend money on foolish things and invest in property, equities or something. Many so called average Joe's retire multi-millionaires working for someone else but living intelligently. Lmao. This is just so wrong, it's not even worthy of addressing. The ignorance of very basic macroeconomics around here is stunning. If you want a sustainable capitalist economy, wages have to rise, period. It doesn't matter if your tender sensibilities are offended by the idea of burger flippers making $15/hr. 1 hour ago, Roosting said: Is moto actually advocating that people with caviar dreams demand that compensation at mcdonalds instead of taking the initiative and finding a higher paying job? And then doubling down and calling merit based compensation as bad? or did I read this wrong? Again, the math dictates that wages need to rise if you want to preserve capitalism. Your feelings about who deserves what don't fucking matter at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry ginger Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 3 hours ago, motonoggin said: I don't claim to be an economic genius, I just know basic macroeconomics. Many of you clearly do not have even one shred of knowledge regarding macroeconomics. yes other than those of us whose degrees included the in depth studying of it. SMH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted June 11, 2021 Author Share Posted June 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Highmark said: What makes a better society? One filled with people hoping the govt can provide a simple life and that's it and that's where they want to stay or one filled with people with the desire for more? America clearly leads the world in innovation. Nobody even comes close. Supply side has hijacked government and used it to engineer an unsustainable arrangement that enriches them while stealing from the rest of us. It will blow up one day, and you'll predictably blame that on government and the poor instead of the oligarchs that have hijacked our system. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge this just shows how far up the asses of the rich you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted June 11, 2021 Author Share Posted June 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, Angry ginger said: yes other than those of us whose degrees included the in depth studying of it. SMH You clearly know diddly squat about it. Your comment about wages driving inflation exposes the depth of your ignorance. If you have a degree in the subject, it's basically good for nothing but fish wrap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roosting Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 3 hours ago, motonoggin said: Lmao. This is just so wrong, it's not even worthy of addressing. The ignorance of very basic macroeconomics around here is stunning. If you want a sustainable capitalist economy, wages have to rise, period. It doesn't matter if your tender sensibilities are offended by the idea of burger flippers making $15/hr. Again, the math dictates that wages need to rise if you want to preserve capitalism. Your feelings about who deserves what don't fucking matter at all. But your feelings do? That's all your talk is about what everyone feels they deserve not what they work for. Choices have consequences be a slacker you get slacker prosperity be a go getter and be a mover and shaker and get compensated for it. What you are advocating is everyone gets the big dollars to do what ever it is they desire, That is wrong on so many levels it is not even funny. How you can argue otherwise is more of an indication of your inability to grasp the world around you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted June 11, 2021 Author Share Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Roosting said: But your feelings do? That's all your talk is about what everyone feels they deserve not what they work for. Choices have consequences be a slacker you get slacker prosperity be a go getter and be a mover and shaker and get compensated for it. What you are advocating is everyone gets the big dollars to do what ever it is they desire, That is wrong on so many levels it is not even funny. How you can argue otherwise is more of an indication of your inability to grasp the world around you. I'm not saying anything about merit or who deserves what, you are. I'm saying regardless of your feelings, the economic math says wages need to rise, period. This isn't an opinion any more than 1+2=3 is an opinion. Edited June 11, 2021 by motonoggin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roosting Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 2 hours ago, motonoggin said: I'm not saying anything about merit or who deserves what, you are. I'm saying regardless of your feelings, the economic math says wages need to rise, period. This isn't an opinion any more than 1+2=3 is an opinion. Duse do you not read what you type. Better go look at what you said about merit based compensation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry ginger Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 hour ago, motonoggin said: You clearly know diddly squat about it. Your comment about wages driving inflation exposes the depth of your ignorance. If you have a degree in the subject, it's basically good for nothing but fish wrap. yes pat yourself on the back or all your self taught selectively culled "knowledge" You believe in Marx's economic theories. I don't even need to at that point have a discussion about Smith and Keynes theories with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted June 11, 2021 Author Share Posted June 11, 2021 Just now, Roosting said: Duse do you not read what you type. Better go look at what you said about merit based compensation. Wtf are you talking about? I've said merit doesn't matter, repeatedly. Are you daft? You're trying to remain in denial of the facts. It's ok, I get it, the desire to maintain your fantasy and preserve your worldview is powerful. Some people just cannot handle cognitive dissonance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted June 11, 2021 Author Share Posted June 11, 2021 Just now, Angry ginger said: yes pat yourself on the back or all your self taught selectively culled "knowledge" You believe in Marx's economic theories. I don't even need to at that point have a discussion about Smith and Keynes theories with you. It's odd that I'm demonstrating the problem quite clearly and succinctly, and you're just hurling invective instead of responding with an educated rebuttal. 1+2=3 is the same regardless if you're a marxist or a martian. My political views or yours don't change math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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