Former McDonald's CEO warns $15 minimum wage directly contributing to fast-food industry's automation push

[motonoggin]

1 hour ago, Stephen Hawking said:

The short version. 

Tell others they suck at fact based debate then post cartoons to make your own point. 

I've already made my point, and the memes are meant to mock these idiots. 

Not surprised many of you choose to ignore that in order to cling to your fucked up dogma.

[Zambroski]

2 hours ago, Stephen Hawking said:

The short version. 

Tell others they suck at fact based debate then post cartoons to make your own point. 

 

[Fireball 440]

12 fucking pages.

[Cold War]

Reminds me of the good ole days of snowrider and rev kev owning  the forum.  

[Zambroski]

1 hour ago, Cold War said:

Reminds me of the good ole days of snowrider and rev kev owning  the forum.  

Oh, some precious threads of old in here starring those two clowns.  Just epic. 

[Highmark]

On 6/11/2021 at 12:05 PM, motonoggin said:

Lmao. This is just so wrong, it's not even worthy of addressing. The ignorance of very basic macroeconomics around here is stunning. 

If you want a sustainable capitalist economy, wages have to rise, period. It doesn't matter if your tender sensibilities are offended by the idea of burger flippers making $15/hr. 

Again, the math dictates that wages need to rise if you want to preserve capitalism. Your feelings about who deserves what don't fucking matter at all. 

 

On 6/11/2021 at 12:10 PM, motonoggin said:

Supply side has hijacked government and used it to engineer an unsustainable arrangement that enriches them while stealing from the rest of us. It will blow up one day, and you'll predictably blame that on government and the poor instead of the oligarchs that have hijacked our system. 

The fact that you refuse to acknowledge this just shows how far up the asses of the rich you are. 

   Enlighten us on your economics education.....other than you've read Marx.    

You come on here and brag about your Economic knowledge yet you post nothing but old graphs comparing wages to productivity that others have debunked with actual articles and data.  

[motonoggin]

2 hours ago, Highmark said:

 

   Enlighten us on your economics education.....other than you've read Marx.    

You come on here and brag about your Economic knowledge yet you post nothing but old graphs comparing wages to productivity that others have debunked with actual articles and data.  

You haven't debunked shit.

It is an unassailable fact that worker wages have been stagnant for 40+ years. All while prices, worker productivity, and corporate profits continued to steadily climb.

[Highmark]

27 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

You haven't debunked shit.

It is an unassailable fact that worker wages have been stagnant for 40+ years. All while prices, worker productivity, and corporate profits continued to steadily climb.

Again enlighten us on your formal economic education.

Your refusal to acknowledge compensation is more than just wages shows your lack of knowledge of economics.

https://thenewamerican.com/is-there-wage-stagnation/

The second comparison problem is a bit technical, when the consumer price index is used to adjust workers’ pay for inflation while a different measure (the gross domestic product deflator) is used to adjust the value of the nation’s economic output for inflation. Harvard University’s Martin Feldstein noted in a National Bureau of Economic Research paper in 2008 that it is misleading to use different deflators. Boudreaux and Palagashvili point out that when more careful measurements have compared worker pay (including the value of fringe benefits) with productivity using a consistent adjustment for inflation, they move in tandem. The authors say: “The claim that ordinary Americans are stagnating economically while only ‘the rich’ are gaining is also incorrect. True enough, membership in the middle class seems to be declining — but this is because more American households are moving up.”

Many economists and other social scientists determine well-being by looking at income brackets instead of people. When one looks at people, he finds considerable income mobility. According to a report by the Department of the Treasury titled “Income Mobility in the U.S. from 1996 to 2005,” there was considerable income mobility of individuals in the U.S. economy during that period. Using Internal Revenue Service tax return data, the report says that more than half of taxpayers moved to a different income quintile over this period. More than half of those in the bottom income quintile in 1996 had moved to a higher income group by 2005. The mobility also goes in the opposite direction. Of the highest income earners in 1996 — the top one-hundredth of 1 percent — only 25 percent remained in this group in 2005. The percentage increase in the median incomes of those in the lower income groups, between 1996 and 2005, increased more than the median incomes of those initially in the higher income groups.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-6/pdf/understanding-the-labor-productivity-and-compensation-gap.pdf

High productivity—wide compensation gaps Industries with the largest productivity gains experienced the largest productivity–compensation gaps. (See chart 6.) This group of high productivity industries experienced huge technological advances during the IT boom. All of these industries saw compensation rise much more slowly than productivity over time. This was mainly due to the difference in deflators. The prices of the electronic components used in production for these industries fell substantially over time. This is in contrast to the CPI, which rose steadily over the same period. The change in

The strong correlation between productivity and the productivity–compensation gap was primarily due to the difference in deflators. The relationship between productivity and the change in labor share was much weaker, yet it still existed. The difference in deflators was the stronger effect among high productivity industries while the change in labor’s share of income was the stronger effect among most other industries. What about the 17 percent of industries that saw compensation rise at least as fast as productivity? These tended to be industries with low productivity growth or even productivity declines. (See chart 7.) The median change in productivity of these industries since 1987 was 0.4 percent per year. In contrast, the median change in productivity of industries that saw compensation rise slower than productivity was 1.9 percent.

Industries in which compensation grew the fastest relative to productivity include the water, sewage, and other systems industry; the golf courses and country clubs industry; and the newspaper, periodical, book, and directory publishers industry. The first industry had a large difference in deflators, the second industry saw a large increase in the labor share, and the third industry had a combination of these two components affecting the gap. All three of these industries had productivity declines over the period.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Highmark

[motonoggin]

Lmao. It's hilarious how capitalists constantly try to reassure each other that their system isn't completely fucked and destined to fail.

All they do by refusing to acknowledge the inherent contradictions in capitalism, is quicken the socialist uprising they're currently brewing with their willful ignorance. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by motonoggin

[racer254]

Preaching on a snowmobile forum to a bunch of snowmobile enthusiasts about stagnant wages.    Ironic.  It's amazing how these members all have enough disposable income to be able to afford anything like that with how stagnant wages are.

Edited June 14, 2021 by racer254

[Edmo]

1 hour ago, racer254 said:

Preaching on a snowmobile forum to a bunch of snowmobile enthusiasts about stagnant wages.    Ironic.  It's amazing how these members all have enough disposable income to be able to afford anything like that with how stagnant wages are.

I never felt like the “system” was holding me back. I did work for a couple cheap fucks that I thought didn’t pay well so I left and went someplace else. I also moved three times to find more opportunity.

If anything we need to do a better job of training those on the lower end or not going to college so they can make more money. If you have a skill and a decent work ethic your wages will not be stagnant.

[motonoggin]

15 minutes ago, Edmo said:

I never felt like the “system” was holding me back. I did work for a couple cheap fucks that I thought didn’t pay well so I left and went someplace else. I also moved three times to find more opportunity.

If anything we need to do a better job of training those on the lower end or not going to college so they can make more money. If you have a skill and a decent work ethic your wages will not be stagnant.

This is individualizing what is a systemic problem and another emotional subjective 'merit' angle. 

[Edmo]

37 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

This is individualizing what is a systemic problem and another emotional subjective 'merit' angle. 

Without individuals you have no stats. What specifically in the system is holding people back? 
No comment on trying lift up the lower end, helping them to be successful?

[motonoggin]

53 minutes ago, Edmo said:

Without individuals you have no stats. What specifically in the system is holding people back? 
No comment on trying lift up the lower end, helping them to be successful?

Massive debt based demand has supplanted wage based demand, which in turn doesn't give any incentive to increase wages in order to have demand and supply maintain equilibrium. 

The only way to increase aggregate wages is to adopt policies that drive them up across the economy. 

[f7ben]

1 hour ago, motonoggin said:

Massive debt based demand has supplanted wage based demand, which in turn doesn't give any incentive to increase wages in order to have demand and supply maintain equilibrium. 

The only way to increase aggregate wages is to adopt policies that drive them up across the economy. 

You’d have to be dumb not to understand this. When companies can feed at the Fed trough instead of focus on organic demand based growth there is no incentive to operate with the working class best interest in mind.

[motonoggin]

1 hour ago, f7ben said:

You’d have to be dumb not to understand this. When companies can feed at the Fed trough instead of focus on organic demand based growth there is no incentive to operate with the working class best interest in mind.

Yup. It's one of the major failings of a capitalist system, complete lack of foresight.

[Rigid1]