Bhen and his clutch argument

[f7ben]

22 minutes ago, Highmark said:

Dude....dude.....dude..... I already did and posted a dyno chart from DTR. 

I missed your edit. Now take that dyno graph and add 5lbs of boost. What happened to the power curve?

Also mentioning anything to do with 2 strokes is useless here

[f7ben]

So ....we’ve established that a turbo motors “powerband” is established by the turbo and not the motor.

Can we move on to why we would try and clutch for 8000 rpm when the motor now is making peak power all the way to 8500 and higher????

Also these hypothetical number are representative of the zuk 1100 for reference 

Edited March 4, 2021 by f7ben

[Rod]

8 minutes ago, f7ben said:

So ....we’ve established that a turbo motors “powerband” is established by the turbo and not the motor.

Can we move on to why we would try and clutch for 8000 rpm when the motor now is making peak power all the way to 8500 and higher????

Also these hypothetical number are representative of the zuk 1100 for reference 

So if you put a turbo on a TBI 454 you could make it rev to 9000?

[Highmark]

59 minutes ago, f7ben said:

I missed your edit. Now take that dyno graph and add 5lbs of boost. What happened to the power curve?

Also mentioning anything to do with 2 strokes is useless here

Not sure what this 1100T is at for boost add but its fairly significant.   Where would you clutch this 1100T for?

My definition of overrev is when HP starts to decline.   Yes boosted turbo's its less than stock form.   Now depending on what type of riding I'm doing would depend on how I clutch this.   If I'm drag racing I'm likely to try to be a bit lower.   1000' radar runs or top speed I'll take a bit of overrev for the RPM as long as I can still get to full shift and not cause excessive slippage.   Drag racing I don't care to get to OD (if the clutches allow) as 1:1 shift ratio is optimal.  

Keep in mind part of overrev is where its SAFE to run that motor at.....not just drop in HP/Torque.  Go right on ahead and run your 1100T at 8700 if you want.  Its only a 4.6% drop in peak HP.   I wouldn't. 

Race tune file for the 1100 Turbo from a popular aftermarket company.

RPM CHp Clb-ft lb/hph lbs/hr SCFM Ratio psig Psig

7800 279.8 188.4 0.498 138.5 337.1 11.52 23.3 67.4

7900 280.8 186.7 0.497 138.9 338.2 11.46 23.3 67.0

8000 279.8 183.7 0.497 138.3 338.3 11.44 23.1 66.8

8100 276.9 179.5 0.503 138.7 338.4 11.42 23.1 66.7

8200 276.1 176.8 0.505 138.7 338.5 11.42 23.1 66.6

8300 273.7 173.2 0.509 138.6 338.9 11.45 23.0 66.3

8400 271.9 170.0 0.504 136.4 339.7 11.46 22.9 65.9

8500 271.0 167.4 0.504 135.7 340.0 11.48 23.0 65.7

8600 270.2 165.0 0.505 135.7 340.3 11.52 22.9 65.6

8700 267.7 161.6 0.510 135.6 340.5 11.49 22.9 65.6

Ben I'm not debating boosted sled can't run stock or near stock clutching but I would debate they are not optimal especially when you start talking different types of riding.   

Edited March 4, 2021 by Highmark

[awful knawful]

Most epic beat down thread ever!

Should rename COME SEE WHY BEN IS FS.COMs BIGGEST RETARD!

[Tommcat]

sidewinder from last week, with TD tunes, adding boost. peak power never moves from 8800, which is EXACTLY where they make peak power stock, and even when they're down power from boost leaks and only making 180..

next!

[Rod]

31 minutes ago, Highmark said:

Not sure what this 1100T is at for boost add but its fairly significant.   Where would you clutch this 1100T for?

My definition of overrev is when HP starts to decline.   Yes boosted turbo's its less than stock form.   Now depending on what type of riding I'm doing would depend on how I clutch this.   If I'm drag racing I'm likely to try to be a bit lower.   1000' radar runs or top speed I'll take a bit of overrev for the RPM as long as I can still get to full shift and not cause excessive slippage.   Drag racing I don't care to get to OD (if the clutches allow) as 1:1 shift ratio is optimal.  

Keep in mind part of overrev is where its SAFE to run that motor at.....not just drop in HP/Torque.  Go right on ahead and run your 1100T at 8700 if you want.  Its only a 4.6% drop in peak HP.   I wouldn't. 

Race tune file for the 1100 Turbo from a popular aftermarket company.

RPM CHp Clb-ft lb/hph lbs/hr SCFM Ratio psig Psig

7800 279.8 188.4 0.498 138.5 337.1 11.52 23.3 67.4

7900 280.8 186.7 0.497 138.9 338.2 11.46 23.3 67.0

8000 279.8 183.7 0.497 138.3 338.3 11.44 23.1 66.8

8100 276.9 179.5 0.503 138.7 338.4 11.42 23.1 66.7

8200 276.1 176.8 0.505 138.7 338.5 11.42 23.1 66.6

8300 273.7 173.2 0.509 138.6 338.9 11.45 23.0 66.3

8400 271.9 170.0 0.504 136.4 339.7 11.46 22.9 65.9

8500 271.0 167.4 0.504 135.7 340.0 11.48 23.0 65.7

8600 270.2 165.0 0.505 135.7 340.3 11.52 22.9 65.6

8700 267.7 161.6 0.510 135.6 340.5 11.49 22.9 65.6

Ben I'm not debating boosted sled can't run stock or near stock clutching but I would debate they are not optimal especially when you start talking different types of riding.   

I always had best results being between peak HP and TQ 

[Highmark]

1 minute ago, ACE said:

I always had best results being between peak HP and TQ 

Boosted 4 strokes are a different animal altogether.  

[Rod]

4 minutes ago, Tommcat said:

sidewinder from last week, with TD tunes, adding boost. peak power never moves from 8800, which is EXACTLY where they make peak power stock, and even when they're down power from boost leaks and only making 180..

next!

The thing is boost does not affect intake harmonics. They act the same just under more atmospheres 

[Rod]

Just now, Highmark said:

Boosted 4 strokes are a different animal altogether.  

Always use the TQ 

[f7ben]

22 minutes ago, Tommcat said:

sidewinder from last week, with TD tunes, adding boost. peak power never moves from 8800, which is EXACTLY where they make peak power stock, and even when they're down power from boost leaks and only making 180..

next!

You got owned on this last time you fucking moron

[Tommcat]

it has got to be pretty nice to be so dumb that you dont know you're dumb

 

[Tommcat]

20 minutes ago, ACE said:

The thing is boost does not affect intake harmonics. They act the same just under more atmospheres 

they arent as sensitive as an NA motor, but tuning the intake absolutely still works

[Rod]

1 minute ago, Tommcat said:

they arent as sensitive as an NA motor, but tuning the intake absolutely still works

About the only difference there is when designing an NA motor and boosted when it comes to airflow is the amount of valve overlap due to the pressure differential between the intake and exhaust. Intake harmonics remain the same. 
 

 

[Highmark]

Just now, ACE said:

Always use the TQ 

Not with Turbo 4's.  Leaving too much speed on the table. 

[Rod]

Just now, Highmark said:

Not with Turbo 4's.  Leaving too much speed on the table. 

But more acceleration  

[Highmark]

17 minutes ago, ACE said:

But more acceleration  

No.   

Stock Sidewinder has 134 ft/lbs of torque at 6400 RPM (not peak just as low as the graph goes)

At peak HP its at 8800 and 122 ft/lbs of torque.   You go ahead and clutch one half way between and lets race.    

Half way between your at 7600 rpm 187 HP and 127 ft/lbs vs 204 and 122.  

Turbo 4's you clutch anywhere from little bit below peak HP to little over.   No half way between. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Highmark

[f7ben]

2 minutes ago, Highmark said:

No.   

Stock Sidewinder has 134 ft/lbs of torque at 6400 RPM (not peak just as low as the graph goes)

At peak HP its at 8800 and 122 ft/lbs of torque.   You go ahead and clutch one half way between and lets race.    

Half way between your at 187 HP and 127 ft/lbs.  

Turbo 4's you clutch anywhere from little bit below peak HP to little over.   No half way between. 

Take a look at this dyno and tell me where you’d want to clutch for trail

[Rod]

2 minutes ago, Highmark said:

No.   

Stock Sidewinder has 134 ft/lbs of torque at 6400 RPM (not peak just as low as the graph goes)

At peak HP its at 8800 and 122 ft/lbs of torque.   You go ahead and clutch one half way between and lets race.    

Half way between your at 187 HP and 127 ft/lbs vs 204 and 122.  

Turbo 4's you clutch anywhere from little bit below peak HP to little over.   No half way between. 

Show me your ISR turbo class wins and I’ll digress 

[f7ben]

Hey Tommcat you dumb motherfucker.....why is the zuk 1100 peak at 7800 on stock map and 8500+ on the Bikeman 260 map?

 

[Highmark]

9 minutes ago, ACE said:

Show me your ISR turbo class wins and I’ll digress 

You can make claims all you want but no way you clutch 4 stroke turbo's half way between peak torque and HP.   None I've been around anyway for any type of riding I've done or do with them. 

So you would clutch a stock winder at 7600?    

Edited March 4, 2021 by Highmark

[Highmark]

10 minutes ago, f7ben said:

Take a look at this dyno and tell me where you’d want to clutch for trail

I imagine my DD tune on my Z1T was somewhat similar and I clutched for around 8250 on that.   Yes I was leaving some speed on the table I just didn't to spin that mill at 8500 for long periods of time.   Pretty sure factory rev limiter was 8200-8250.  

Edited March 4, 2021 by Highmark

[Rod]

5 minutes ago, Highmark said:

You can make claims all you want but no way you clutch 4 stroke turbo's half way between peak torque and HP.   None I've been around anyway for any type of riding I've done or do with them. 

So you would clutch a stock winder at 7600?    

We ran out Z1T around 7700-7800 and it won a lot

You tune a turbo sled and go beat stock 800’s then fluff yourself. That’s seriously your level. 

[Highmark]

4 minutes ago, ACE said:

We ran out Z1T around 7700-7800 and it won a lot

You tune a turbo sled and go beat stock 800’s then fluff yourself. That’s seriously your level. 

Won what?   Drags, radar runs?   If I'm drag racing a boosted Z1 I would clutch for 77-7800 but that's right near peak HP.  

Dude that's so far off half way between peak HP and torque.   Fuck dude get over yourself already.   You made that claim now your saying you weren't even close to clutching that way.   

"We" is like another way of saying the team I followed along and claimed to be a part of.    

Edited March 4, 2021 by Highmark

[f7ben]

9 minutes ago, Highmark said:

I imagine my DD tune on my Z1T was somewhat similar and I clutched for around 8250 on that.   Yes I was leaving some speed on the table I just didn't to spin that mill at 8500 for long periods of time.   Pretty sure factory rev limiter was 8200-8250.  

I like revving it at 83-8400 and d&d moves the rev limiter up to 8900. I’m running 18lbs boost and the only reason it can be done is because of the light stockclutching. The sled is significantly faster than the speedwerx setup we had and it runs right along wide the BikeMan 260 tune ales in our group.

Edited March 4, 2021 by f7ben